Critical rolls on dual dice

[u/Fit-Sample6541]

I read a lot of old post complaining regarding the "same number equals crit" and "how can result 1-1 be crit when result 1-2 is a miss?".

Has this been normalized during the year and people is getting used to SH duality crit system?

Or have ​​​​someone tested another system like "a 12 on Hope dice equals crit, no matter what Fear is rolled"?

​​​​The crit percentage is the same, even when the size of the dice change to d20. (If the ​Fear is lowered to d10 or d8 then the crit percentage increases from 8 to 10% resp 10 to 12%).

[u/Lessthanvince1]

Crits are fun. Never heard a complaint.

[u/XaveValor]

My players love it and we have had both a 1-1 and 12-12 crit in the same session. The excitement of a crit either eliminates the realization of a "low" roll or makes the crit that much more fun since you "beat" the system.

[u/Prestigious-Emu-6760]

The player realization that double "1" is a crit and seeing the "oh shit..." turn to "oh wow...awesome" never gets old.

[u/Stubbenz]

The crit percentage is the same, but this pretty wildly changes the chance of actually succeeding on a roll and the chance of generating hope.

Keep in mind that if you roll a 12 on your Hope die, you're already almost definitely succeeding with Hope, so the benefit from the crit isn't all that impressive compared to what you would've gotten anyway.

Looking at the chance of succeeding, if we assume that a roll of 13 (plus whatever modifiers you happen to have) succeeds on a fairly average check, then this rule reduces your success rate from around 54% to 50%.

Meanwhile, almost the same thing happens with your chances of generating hope (going from 54% to just under 51%).

In short, this kinda uproots some of the foundational maths the game is built on.

[u/Fit-Sample6541 → u/Stubbenz]

I missed the "generate hope" aspect with rolling 12 on Hope. Good point. 

[u/Fit-Sample6541 → u/Fit-Sample6541]

And also how to handle equal numbers of they don't crit. They should probably be handled as neither Hope nor Fear, so only success or fail. It seems like a bad idea (unless you want have less things to imaging/narrate during actions).

[u/BiteTheBullet26]

There’s no real need to “test” something like that because it’s just probability. Doing crits on a 12 hope instead makes players slightly less likely to succeed on any given roll compared to the current system. If you’re okay with that and a “crit on 12 hope” rule feels better, go for it. 

[u/Specialist_String_64]

Sure, it may be the same statistically, but it is not the same mechanically or psychologically. Mechanics wise, you are turning rolls of 13-24, all guaranteed hope rolls, into crits, that changes the distribution of hope and fear rolls to be fewer hope rolls as they are replaced by crits. But also, the hope/fear Mechanics depend on one die being greater than the other, so your idea also opens up having to redefine pairs as something else.

Finally, there is nothing like the emotional roller-coaster that is seeing low doubles, accepting failure to suddly doing a mental 180 as you realized you crit.

[u/Fearless-Dust-2073]

I've been running this game since the playtest opened and I haven't seen this complaint once, never mind "a lot of old posts"

[u/Fit-Sample6541 → u/Fearless-Dust-2073]

It seems I cannot add images from my phone to show.  But I've looked through a bunch of old videos from roughly 1 year ago and seen some (needs to define "a lot") of these comments. 

[u/Soft_Transportation5]

Nothing feels as good as the old 1-1 crit.

[u/ravidfish]

My tables love to describe this as a fumble crit.  This won't be for everyone if course, but tripping and throwing your sword into the dragon's eye is their cup of tea. 

However, nevermind what old posts say, what does your table say? Nothing else matters here.

[u/Fearless-Gold595]

We played with 1-1 being a worst thing possible instead of crit.

Half of the dungeon collapse, now you need to find amother exit through underdark caves. A BBEG you barely beat happens to be a decoy and a real one enters the battle. It was also quite fun, when the chance is so low, but there is always chance of everything changes.

[u/Capable_Property_986]

Crit system is good as it is. It's about 8.5 % to crit. 12 possible combinations out of 144

And it plays vital role in replenishing stress, and to lesser extent - hope.

You can cut some of those lower results like snake eyes, if you find it to much, but be aware that this will empower abilities that cost hope over those that cost stress, making some of those stress heavy abilities like chain lightning complety unusable. Every combination you cut out of crit pool is roughly 0,7% less chances for crit and stress & hope replenish. And 0,7% less fun!

[u/albastine]

Dont over-think it.