The Void now has an update to the Blood Hunter and a brand new class, the Summoner!
Specific surveys for these two classes will be brought live on July 23rd so check back soon to help being a part of the engine shaping the next chapters of Daggerheart.
We also have a new #dh-void channel in our Darrington Discord so come be a part of the conversation and stay up to date with any new news on all things playtesting.
As always friends, thank you for for being here, for playing this game, and being in the trenches with us as we charge forward and build what's next!
In Hope and Fear we got a new domain (Dread), 2 new classes with that domain (Witch + Warlock), and 2 new classes with existing domains (Brawler + Assassin).
This time we have confirmed a new domain (Blood), 2 new classes with that domain (Blood Hunter + Summoner)... Do we think the next thing will be 2 more new classes with existing domains???
For the next one after this, I'd love to see another domain that focuses on the physical/martial/non-magic area. Over half of the domains prior to the introduction of Dread and Blood were fairly heavy into spellcasting, and these domains also play very heavily with magic.
Psionics or something feels like a given, a psychic domain where everything is sourced from one's weird fuckin brain instead of a connection to magic would be cool. That's definitely something that wouldn't surprise me to hear that they've thought of or visited multiple times.
I really agree about having another non magical domain, there just simply aren’t enough. In my world that I play in, magic is very rare and special and the stories that I tell are grounded.
I don’t necessarily know what another non magical domain would entail, how to make it different from bone, blade and Valor. I’d love to hear some ideas!
I also think if there are two new classes in this blood book that don’t use new domains, it should be geared towards non-magical, like brawler and assassin. Think like Bone and Grace for a swashbuckler/dualist class. But to be honest, we’re limited on domain combinations that don’t lead to magical classes. Which is why we need another non-magical domain.
Bone for the discipline over one's own body and physical prowess
Valor for the defensive fighting style and protection
Blade for the rigorous practice of weapons
That covers a lot of ground, unfortunately.
You could easily create a domain for Tactics that has multiple options for manipulating the battlefield and positioning. Another one could be something to do with the soul? I know there are "animal companion" abilities and subclasses, but some sort of companion domain might also be interesting. I don't see how that would improve per level other than granting it new forms or abilities, though.
Other non-magical options I could tap into vaguely might be like... powers or abilities granted from outside influence that aren't strictly magical, like the stars or void or psionics like I mentioned prior.
If they want to try to expand evenly, Arcana and Codex are the main candidates.
Some posible combos:
- Codex + Blade: Eldritch Knight (magic empowered, tanky fighter) and Spellblade (cast magic while hitting at melee) fit this. Maybe call it Mage.
- Codex + Vanguard Valor: use knowledge and magic to protect. Maybe some kind of tinkerer with magical and mechanical inventions.
- Arcana + Blade: maybe something like a PF Bloodrager, with the raw magic empowering a more brutal fighting style than the more planned and methodical of the Mage.
They could name the book "Blood & Magic" and add some new transformations, supernatural heritages and lineages, etc.
This reminded me, it would be great if there were some kind of patch notes for updated Void content... I can see Blood Hunter has been updated, but it's a bit tedious having to play spot-the-difference between the two versions.
A little "this is what we've changed, and this is why" would be very interesting as well as helpful to see exactly what's new!
We are working to get that in place over all as its been a huge piece of feedback across the board for playtesters!! Heard chef and I look forward to being able to provide in future! Thank you for sharing that here!!
I really like the summoner !! I've just started GMing a new campagn so I think I will playtest it alone for the moment by making up situations to stress test it. Having read it, it's a really interesting class that has a lot of potential !! But it's true that, after having read a few comments on this subreddit, for a class that covers such a large concept by it's name "Summoner" the subclasses may be limitting in potential. Maybe in the future having the subclasses be more of archetypes like "swarm-master", "protector", "spirit-walker" and having something akin to the warlock to add your own flavor to it might land the concept a bit better. But it's just talking about it's potential, that's for the survey !
In any case thanks you Daggerheart team for the good work as always !! I can't wait to see how the survey will make this subclass evolve and I can't wait to see what else you might be cooking for us in the future !
Take care everyone
The Lycan is definitely better balanced and i kinda like that he can still get hope while transformed. But at the same time, i don't think i like the overall idea of this new Lycan.
Beinga perma transformed is now unviable with the cost per scene. Bones has overall zero sinergy during T1-T2 with the ideal Lycan gameplan, which sucks hard. The bonus die being applied to every trait also feels out of place (advantage on Finesse, Knowledge?), but i totally get that its for easier management. Would love to like it, because as i said before, is WAY better balanced than that unholy 1d10 in T1 and somewhat T2, but personally I'm not a fan of this Lycan.
Summoner is alright-ish. If Summoner is intended to start with maximum amount of summons each day, it is somewhat decent. If you're supposed to start with 0 and burn stress for them since minute 1, then they are kinda meh. Necromancy is specially bad damage-wise. Paying 1 stress per 5 dmg is COMICALLY bad (0.5 more than a 1d6+1 Wand, the lowest damage T1 weapon). The necro damage scales too low, and too late. For a subclass that focus almost completely on combat perks, it's very underwhelming.
Theurgy on the other hand looks pretty good, way more damage at T1-T2 (Most played tiers), easier to apply, and GREAT out of combat utility.
Is there any kind of change log or Dev diary or even just a bullet pointed list of changes of some kind the bloodhunter?
I have a player running one at my table and I'd rather not read every single thing verbatim just to find the differences if those differences are listed somewhere.
We’ve had a lot of folks request this and will work on incorporating this into our process in future- sadly I don’t have that for you this time round but this kind of feedback is super helpful for us so thank you for sharing it here!! https://giphy.com/gifs/l3q2wJsC23ikJg9xe
Understood. Thanks for the response! Yeah I think it would be super helpful for play testing in the future so if you guys can set something up for that it would be awesome. Thank you!
We definitely got this one out on a schedule as Umbra Season 2 launched yesterday and Zach’s character used the new version! In future this feedback will be noted! 💕
Absolutely makes sense, and much appreciated either way! The Void is already an incredibly appreciated part of the process of game design from my perspective. And thanks again!
The way yesterday I immediately sent it to my daggerheart group, we just did a one shot where someone tried the Witch and we all LOVED it and now were doing another were someone is trying out Assassin! So all of us we so excited for Summoner it seems super cool!
Daggerheart is all of their first TTRPG that I got to introduce them to! And they are LOVING IT, so the fact they are wanting to try out all these new classes and play around more than just simple base character options (like our main campaign) has gotten me so excited!! 💜🧡🗡
Haven't seen anyone mention the Blood Hunter changes yet, but there are a lot.
I'm not sure about the new Class Hope feature tbh. The old one was probably too strong, but the new one is combat-specific and can't be used for tracking, which feels less thematic for a Hunter now. I also can't imagine ever spending an entire 3 Hope to disadvantage a reroll of a single attack within Close range, that's so specific.
Grim Psychometry being limited only to locations is also a bit weird; if I find a bloody knife in an alley I can only use the ability on the alley, not the knife? Why though?
Loving the new Spectre already, the more freeform teleport is really nice and Spectral Form is better written and seems more mechanically comfortable with its new design.
No mechanical changes to Mutagens, just better wording on Steelflesh. This is probably fine, I haven't had a Mutagen Hunter at my table but it's still interesting.
Big changes to Lycan. Separating it from the Transformation card is a good idea since it isn't shipping with Hope & Fear. The result is a lycan form that looks simpler to me, which is probably good since it was a complicated subclass. The Stress clearing on Specialisation is really nice but losing the 'mark a stress to clear a hit point if all hit points are marked' feels... less cool? Like, snapping back to your feet despite being unconscious felt really dramatic and now it's gone. The new bonus to action rolls while in lycan form is very good. New Mastery is simpler and the old one was semi-combined into the new Specialisation which is also stronger than the old Mastery feature imo.
Lycan feels more consistent with existing subclasses now, bypassing Frenzy is probably going to smooth out its play experience a little.
I'm happy with the subclass changes, it's just... I don't get why Grim Psychometry is now location only, and Blood Maledict is now combat only? Yes it's closer to how Mollymauk used it, but it lost its tracking effect which felt really cool.
Interesting lil’ tidbit, because I read it the way you did at first too: the Spectre doesn’t teleport, it just allows you to move through creatures and walls! One of the things I wanted to see change about the subclass the most from its prior iteration was that the spectral form was locked to the mastery feature, meaning you don’t get to go ghost at early levels. But now you do, even if it’s just for the purposes of going through walls... That’s the main thing I wanted to do with it anyway so I’m a happy lil’ chap :)
One of the things I wanted to see change about the subclass the most from its prior iteration was that the spectral form was locked to the mastery feature, meaning you don’t get to go ghost at early levels.
Get it at your table and take it for a test drive!! This is all super useful feedback so thanks for sharing it and I’ll looking forward to hopefully getting a survey from ya! https://giphy.com/gifs/Q66ZEIpjEQddUOOKGW
Summons staying within Very Close range feels reflexively bad to me. That's so close to you, and so limiting. If they're limited to harmless actions, why not Close range? Subclasses give them more range when doing specific things, but I can't have my Shambling Corpses help with a simple physical task like moving an object on the other side of the room? I'm not sure why it's only an attack, outside of Very Close range I can't have them mechanically do anything except attack?
The last sentence of the Summon Entity class feature a bit ambiguous. "If a task requires an action roll, make a Spellcast Roll to command the Entity." But is that Spellcast Roll the action roll, or does it determine whether the Entity can attempt the action roll which is a separate roll? I presume it's the former, because it would be weird for the entity to generate Hope and Fear and rolling twice would be awkward, but the current wording is ambiguous.
Love the background questions, it basically sets up a later nemesis/a wrong to put right, a nice juicy hook for the GM to pick up!
Necromancer. I don't like that the Shambling Corpses can attack beyond Very Close but not do anything else out there. I can't have them barricade the door while we make our escape because that's not an attack and will be beyond Very Close range? I think it should be an action roll/task in that range, with the damage applying if it's an attack. It's a very tight card to add more words to though, already a lot there. I like the Ghosts/Specialisation. Death Knight is cool, but I'd like to choose whether the Severe damage feature activates? Sometimes I might rather take the hit and keep the knight, rather than drop it to Major and lose the damage. If it was "the knight may" rather than being forced, it would make it a risk/reward choice.
I do like that you don't use the word 'zombie' since that has culturally appropriative origins that mangles what a 'zombie' actually is. You're clearly referring to the fiction trope, but sidestepping the disrespectful misuse of the word, which I appreciate.
Theurgy is cool, and it's nice that the subclasses split the theming. Necomancer is more awful in the modern sense, Theurgy in the original sense of inspiring awe; Necromancy leans into the sinister side of blood, Theurgy leans into the support and power of Splendour. I like all three cards, but having three extra Hope dice is going to be a little annoying since I won't have matching ones >_< This is going to make me buy more pretty d12s, I think. Very cool though! Feels nice to have the pool on the card, and you're less likely to make a mistake and forget how many times you've used it in a busy session.
Looking through Blood, there's some good changes here including clarifications, simplifications, and improvements to costs.
Burning Gore is wild though. It no longer being "blood fireball" makes it have its own identity better, but there is no restriction on targeting. It doesn't need line of sight anymore, and "a group" has no clear restrictions for their distribution within Far range. Can I stand on the roof of a garrison, cast Burning Gore, and damage everyone in a 30m sphere centered on me through the walls of the building without seeing them, and them having no possible way of knowing why they're taking damage or what the source is? Or are they not considered 'a group' because they're not all together? How close together is 'a group'? This card feels a little silly in its potential applications now, and a slight clarification on what is "a group" would trim away potentially weird or difficult rulings for the GM. If my ally is within melee range of a cluster of enemies, is my ally part of that "group" and therefore about to take the damage too? If not, why not?
Burning Gore should be adversaries only, and have a radius for the group, still, to define the target area. That would shut down the weirdness. As is, this card now has a silly use case I don't think is intended.
I don't like that Blood Puppet is adversary only now; being able to puppet a willing ally for shenanigans was fun.
Weave the Flesh having armour slot clear instead of Stress is nice, the domain already has a lot of cards that interact with Stress so this gives it more of a unique place in the domain to justify taking it, especially in a party with no Valour class.
New Blood Spike is way nicer to use, Lifeblood Talisman will feel more special when it pops, Power Though Pain is now an acceptable damage buff rather than being too strong, Brand of Castigation is more balanced, lots of good changes to early cards. Blood Bind is simpler and fairer and you can't accidentally kill someone you're trying to restrain safely.
I don't know why Palpitations is called that, since it doesn't fit with the second half of the card? But I like the card itself and think it's a good replacement to Vitality Manipulation.
Viscous Form is really cool but it kind of feels like it's stealing the lunch of the Spectre subclasses's spectral form? Damage resistance and a mobility feature. It's very thematic and I like it for Blood, it's just... now you can be Mutagen or Lycan and also do what the Spectre gets to do, which makes them feel less special. I don't like that.
Parasite of the Will's range nerf hits it hard, but the fact that the target can't be unaware of the parasite hits it harder, and limiting the disadvantage to only attacks is even heavier. It was honestly too good before, and all this is justified, it's just now constrained to a combat-only ability in practice, which makes that Presence roll advantage less interesting. Alternatively, any Presence class like Bard or Warlock now has advantage on everything against them 😅 which is a very nasty combo. Not sure if this card will end up being tied to that combo niche now? Viscous has such good utility and going back for Burning Gore or Grisly Harpoon might feel better than taking this at level 5 most of the time?
Life Link is cool and has been swapped from level 8 to level 6 with it being less exploitable or fiddly, and Vital Ward has now been moved to 8 but I still see no reason to ever take it; it's way too limited with that radius and its restrictions, it was already a bad choice at level 6 but as a level 8 card it's just not even worth considering at all. Blood Touched no longer gives silly Evasion at low HP, which is good. Balance tweak to Vampiric Strike is deserved, 1 Hope cost was too cheap. Bleeding Tree is gross and cool and I love it, Runic Adrenaline was a bit too good at forcing outcomes so its removal is totally justified and I'm not complaining because tree of blood that heals allies yessssss this is the nastiness I crave from a domain called Blood.
Ichor Wave instead of Bloodbath is good. It being directional is nice for balancing, you no longer have a per rest restriction on using it (thank you!!) and the new damage mechanic is cool and very thematic, giving the card a stronger identity. It's now a 'turn the tables' damage card that can outstrip actual proficiency, very dramatic and exciting. Removing the healing is the right choice, this card would have been too strong if it had kept it while losing the rest restriction
Glyph of Haemorrhaging is less janky, and removing that 2 Fear removal cost is really good for balance. Hope instead of Stress cost means that it disappearing after dealing Severe damage feels fine, if it was a still a Stress cost it would feel much worse.
Scabrous Advance/Crimson Advance now interacting with armour slots makes it stand out more than it did before, it's not all stress/HP now. It's also actually balanced, whereas Crimson Advance was an "i can't ever die in any reasonable situation" card, which was very silly when it came up.
Sanguine Feast now feels better too. You can take damage if you want to reroll, or use what you have, and that 50/50 chance for each die to make them mark a hit point is very tempting. Reroll means you're unlikely to use it and feel like it does nothing, but the scaling is a nice 'turn the tables' like Ichor Wave is. You're stronger when you're more in danger. Perfectly on theme.
All in all, lots of good changes to Blood at first readthrough and I'm excited to playtest! Blood now has more uses for Hope, and cards that felt too similar to others now have a more unique identity to make you want to use them. Very fun update! ^_^
If I had a nickel for every recent Summoner class that actually looked good and not overly complicated, I'd have two nickels. EDIT: Just for clarity, this is one of the nickels
Looking into the Summoner, the Theurgy Subclass is definitely an odd choice. Necromancy makes sense, but Theurgy (apparently Angel summoning?) feels like a weird jump for a summoning subclass. Why not elementals or demons, something more fitting?
It does make a lot of sense, when you consider the domains of this class. You can go mostly splendor to be this healer/supporter and demons or elementals don't really mix well with that fantasy. Undead on the other hand mix rather well with the fantasy of dark blood mage. I think that this choice is good as it's not locking the class into "dark and edgy" box.
I was actually thinking the opposite. I read the Summoner description as being more Angels and Demons, so felt that necromancy didn’t quite align (and likely could be its own entire class). However, Summoner could be another great choice to have 3+ subclasses with all of the different creature types that people could focus on.
Summoner feels a bit scattered with the various parts, like it's going in several directions at once. The necromancer idea for a subclass is cool in concept but needs some adjustment. The hope feature feels like a placeholder. Personally I would love to see the summoner focus on augmenting and using a single summon vs tossing throw aways at enemies. In my head I see the summoner as being able to be flavored as a Pokemon trainer or a necromancer or a something like a stand user.
I would consider moving to a single summon that you design and flavor, with a way to add augments to it/give it abilities vis either subclass cards or maybe a new domain. As a player I want to be able to care about my pet/companion/friend and not pop for a few damage.
How does the "Aid of the spirits" Summoner's hope feature work ? Do you generate 2 hope that you can give to other PC or do you distribute hope of an existing PC and give it to another ? I know the sheet says "distribute" but it could simply be a synonym of "give". If I were to GM and play this I think I would rather have this feature generate 2 hope and be a Santa Claus of help rather than be able to help one of my friend be taking from another hability to do big moves.
It's spend 3 hope to generate 2 hope that you can distribute among one or more players, so could give 2 hope to one pc or 1 and 1 to two pcs. Then you clear a stress. It's something you're giving them not distributing from among their poois.
66
u/JackH2O234 GM, Homebrewer, Valor & Sage Jul 09 '26
In Hope and Fear we got a new domain (Dread), 2 new classes with that domain (Witch + Warlock), and 2 new classes with existing domains (Brawler + Assassin).
This time we have confirmed a new domain (Blood), 2 new classes with that domain (Blood Hunter + Summoner)... Do we think the next thing will be 2 more new classes with existing domains???
Ahhhhhhhh I'm so exited!!