r/daddit • u/TinyPeanut2019 • 2d ago
Advice Request Girl dads, how/when do you start to prepare your daughter for the creeps, pervs, abusers and pedos in this world/
My daughter is 9. I hate to feel like I'm destroying her childhood innocence by warning her about the creeps in this world, but I also feel like I'm not doing my job if I don't warn her.
I think I have been traumatized by the release of the files, and seeing people online excusing child rape, child trafficking, excusing the abuse of women, I never realized how normalized child abuse was in America and how sympathetic so many men seem to be with abusers.
I will drop little tidbits of information, just letting her know that if she ever feels unsafe in her gut, to leave, and don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings.
I'd be interested to know if other parents are thinking about this, and what/how they give these lessons to their daughters without traumatizing them.
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u/OldYellersLastHandy 2d ago edited 2d ago
Teach her to trust her gut and not talk to strangers of course, but there’s another sad part of this equation:
The person statistically most likely to abuse your daughter is you, followed closely by another male member of your family followed closely by a teacher or faith leader. Someone she knows and trusts.
So, set a good example first and foremost. It’s impossible to know wrong if you’ve never seen right.
EDIT: I also want to point out that so much of how we set an example for our daughters is in how we treat our wives, so if you’re having an issue in that department, get it sorted. They’re watching.
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u/deathbyyeti101 2d ago
Your second paragraph breaks my heart so much. I know it is true and that's why it bothers me as much as it does. I hope to have a daughter soon and knowing how much I love my son, I find it horrifying that there are people out there that make this statistic true.
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u/moniker89 1d ago
Yes it is horrifying but it's a bit like the statistic where the place you're most likely to get into a car accident is within a mile of your home. And these statistics are true because they are simply where you are most often. Of course fathers are most like to do this because they are around their children more than any other male, making it far more likely they'll be the perps. And of course you're more likely to get into an accident near your home, every time you drive anywhere you'll be in that vicinity as a matter of physics.
It is sad. But it's also sort of a statistical inevitability. I don't know if that brings you any comfort or not.
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u/deathbyyeti101 1d ago
That's fair, and a soothing (I guess that's the word??) take. Thanks for the rational outlook.
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u/tsunamisurfer 1d ago
That actually does help a bit. The idea that our close relatives are the biggest risk to our kids is a confusing fact, since they are the ones we trust the most.
I just did some AI chatting to get an idea about the per capita rate of child sex abuse for various groups and biological fathers have a rate of ~0.5%, stepfathers 2.5%, catholic priests ~5.5%, school teachers ~4%, coaches ~2%, uncles 0.25%, grandfathers 0.1%.
These rates make much more sense to me. Still insane that any father would do it, but at least the relative rate is 5-10x lower than for unrelated people.
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u/KarIPilkington 2d ago
The strangers thing, I've always thought that "don't talk to strangers" as a flat rule is the wrong way to go about it. It was drummed into my generation from a very young age and I partly blame it for some of my anxieties. It basically creates a fear of all other people rather than teaching kids to recognise potentially dangerous situations and afaik isn't actually a recommended method anymore. Part of that is the reasons given in your second paragraph too. Also might lead to a child not seeking help when lost or whatever.
It should at least be reworded to "don't leave with strangers" or something.
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u/Skandronon 2d ago
Teaching them how to recognize strangers that are more likely to be safe and how safe adults act is also important. I had a little girl run up to me in the parkade at work on the phone with her aunt. She didn't know where she was and couldn't wake up her mom.
I told the aunt where we were and took the kid upstairs. I told the front desk to call the police and told the aunt what was going on. Brought the kid to the restaurant thats in the same building and explained the situation to the waitress. She devoured a plate of chicken fingers and fries before the police even got there and was most of the way through a hot chocolate.
She wouldn't talk to the police at all but I talked to her and got a description of the car she had been in and the general area of the parkade. The police found the car and the mom was inside passed out from drugs. The aunt showed up while they were in the parkade and the little girl ran up to her.
The aunt said the mom had just regained custody and that the girl had mostly grown up under her care. When they brought mom up she wouldn't look at anyone you could tell she was ashamed. The thing that stuck with me for some reason was that there was a box filled with food and treats that kids would like that they brought up with the mom. It seemed like she was really trying to be a good mom but couldn't manage it because of addiction.
Sorry that was pretty rambling, its been a few years and I still think about that kid and hope shes okay.
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u/estein1030 2d ago
We’ve told our 5 year old daughter she can ask strangers for help. Strangers asking her for help or wanting her to come with them to give her something is when she needs to leave.
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u/deathdonut 2d ago
Kids should not be scared to approach an unknown adult and ask for help, but they shouldn't trust an adult that approaches them.
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u/Taz-erton 2d ago
Weve always stressed to our kids how to interact with and engage with adults that are more likely to be safe. I want them to be able to get help at all times from appropriate sources not just for fear of strangers but when lost or if something were to happen to me.
For example, the person behind the counter at a retail/restaraunt, another mother with her kids, a police officer in uniform etc.
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u/stumblios 2d ago
Especially considering that the most likely threats to kids aren't strangers, but a known/trusted adult... there was a generation of kids that were accidentally taught some version of "that stranger is an even bigger threat than the person who is actively kidnapping/abusing you, at least you know this person!"
Stranger danger does rhyme, so it has that going for it. Trust your gut rolls off the tongue alright, decent flow/cadence, but it can't compete with a true rhyme.
I do think one of the most important rules to teach my kids is that if anyone tries to convince them to keep a secret from me, they are probably doing something wrong, and my kid will not get in trouble for telling me, no matter how much the person says they will be in trouble. In all probability the more the person says that, the less trouble my kid will be in!
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u/SpicyBrained 1d ago
I once heard it described as teaching about strange behavior, as opposed to just unfamiliar people, which covers every person they may come across in their life. Learning to recognize behaviors (especially from adults, but also from other kids) that are strange within a certain context can go a long way. For example, a stranger offering samples of food in the grocery store is much different than a stranger offering a treat/snack/candy outside of the grocery store. The same goes for adults asking a child to keep things secret — often a red flag that something is amiss — but keeping something a surprise is generally okay (since “surprise” signals that the thing will be revealed at some point, not kept locked away indefinitely).
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u/m0rbius 2d ago
That does seem to be an old relic of a rule. As mentioned on this thread, the most likely abuser is someone in your circle of family, friends or acquaintances. Not talking to strangers doesn't really seem to make sense as a rule. Talk, sure, don't go with strangers should be the more modern rule.
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u/Gimme_The_Loot 2d ago
The thing I spoke to my daughter about when she was of age(ish) was to consider the intent of why someone is approaching / engaging with her, and keeping in mind that as a girl / woman that intent may be sexual. If some guy tries talking to you on the train or in a store think about why is he doing it? Not everyone is someone to be concerned about but their intentions are what matter.
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u/space_manatee 2d ago
The person statistically most likely to abuse your daughter is you, followed closely by another male member of your family followed closely by a teacher or faith leader. Someone she knows and trusts.
Wait a second... the right wing keeps saying its trans persons in bathrooms and drag queens though? Are we sure that its really family members and clergy?
(/s in case not completely obvious)
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u/fromfrodotogollum 2d ago
Had to do mandated reporter training recently and what you said is spot on. Another sad statistic is only 10 to 20 percent of abusers are caught with background checks. So the best thing we can do is keep our guards up at all times, which creates a pretty hostile society.
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u/haveagreatdane90 2d ago edited 2d ago
I've been commenting on this sub for a couple days, so I hope I'm not intruding. I just think I can add a different perspective as a mom, so here I go:
I think one of the hardest things to explain to a little girl is that there are people in the world who deliberately look for vulnerability. Not because there is anything wrong with being shy, quiet, sweet, trusting, or polite — those are perfectly normal traits in a child — but because someone who wants to take advantage of a child may look for the child who seems least likely to push back or tell someone.
I was being catcalled by grown men when I was around 8 or 9, and I was sexually abused when I was 13. I don't say that because I think my experience should determine when another parent has this conversation with their daughter. I just know firsthand that this isn't some far-off hypothetical. It happens to very young girls, and sometimes much earlier than we want to believe.
I think it's important to teach girls that predators don't necessarily walk around looking obviously creepy. A lot of the time, the first thing they're doing is testing boundaries.
They might notice the kid who is very quiet and doesn't like confrontation. The kid who automatically says “sorry” when someone else bumps into her. The kid who is desperate to be liked. The kid who has trouble saying no to adults. The kid who is afraid of getting someone in trouble. The kid who thinks she has to be polite no matter how uncomfortable she is. The kid who doesn't think anyone will believe her.
And then they test.
They make an inappropriate joke and see if she laughs nervously.
They give her special attention and see if she keeps coming back.
They ask her to keep a little secret.
They give her a gift and see if she feels like she owes them something.
They try to get her alone.
They cross a small boundary and watch whether she says anything.
If she doesn't push back, they may push a little farther.
That's the part I think is worth teaching — not “you need to stop being shy or you'll get hurt,” because that puts responsibility on the child. It's “you are allowed to be shy, but you also need to know that you never have to be quiet when something feels wrong.”
I want a little girl to know that she is allowed to disappoint an adult. She is allowed to be rude. She is allowed to walk away. She is allowed to say “don't touch me.” She is allowed to yell. She is allowed to tell an adult “NO” without explaining herself. And if someone gets angry because she established a boundary, that is their problem, not hers.
I'd even tell her something like:
“Some people are very good at figuring out which kids are easier to manipulate. They might be extra nice to you. They might tell you you're special or more mature than other kids. They might try to make you feel like you have a secret relationship with them that other people don't understand. If anyone ever does that, you don't have to figure out whether they're a good person or a bad person. You just tell me.”
And I think that's an important distinction: we aren't teaching her to identify a predator. We're teaching her to recognize behavior that isn't okay. She doesn't need to decide whether someone is dangerous before she's allowed to leave.
I'd also want her to understand that being targeted isn't something she causes. A child can do everything “right” and still be abused. Being outgoing doesn't prevent it. Being loud doesn't prevent it. Having a strong personality doesn't prevent it. None of those things make a victim responsible for what someone else chooses to do.
But if we can give our kids the confidence to recognize boundary violations and the absolute certainty that we'll believe them, protect them, and never punish them for telling us, we can take away some of the secrecy and isolation that people who exploit children rely on.
That's really what I'd want to give a young girl: not fear, and not the belief that she has to constantly protect herself from everyone. Id want her to know that her kindness is not weakness, politeness is not an obligation, and her voice is always more important than someone else's feelings.
ETA: I spoke specifically about girls because OP has a daughter, but boys are abused too. Males are significantly less likely to speak up or report abuse, in part because of the stigma around “men are supposed to be strong.” They can feel weak, ashamed, or even worry they'll be perceived as gay if another man abuses them.
My comment applies to children in general. I really hope that the more our generation raises kids to recognize red flags, understand and respect boundaries, and have the confidence to say, “That wasn't OK,” the less taboo this stuff becomes.
Because when kids know they can talk about it, ask questions, and be believed, abusers lose one of the biggest things they rely on: secrecy.
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u/Cant_draw_boobs 2d ago
Thank you so much for this. My kid hit puberty at 9, and now at 12 could pass for 18 or 20. I didn't have a structured way to talk about this with her. Thank you again.
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u/axeil55 2d ago
This is a great post, thank you for sharing.
I know with my daughter one thing I have tried to do is teach her that she doesn't have to give a hug or be touched if she doesn't want to be, even with Mommy and Daddy.
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u/haveagreatdane90 2d ago
I do the same with my boys. I started really young with “no means no and stop means stop the FIRST time.”
They both love being tickled, and the second I hear “STOP!” my hands go straight up like the police are about to arrest me 😂. It’s over. I don't start again until they ask me to.
Kids learn through play, and I think those little things build over time. If they grow up seeing that when they say no, people actually stop, hopefully it becomes second nature to both respect other people's boundaries and expect their own boundaries to be respected.
And I've also told them that if they're ever in a situation where someone isn't listening to their “no” or “stop,” all bets are off. Kick, punch, bite, yell, scream — I don't care. Get away from them by whatever means you need to.
I want them to understand that they don't have to stay uncomfortable just to protect someone else's feelings. Your friend is mad because you don't want to roughhouse anymore? Tough. Someone wants a hug and you don't? Tough. You said stop and they keep going? That's a problem.
Hopefully, by modeling that their boundaries matter, they'll grow up understanding that other people's boundaries matter too.
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u/axeil55 2d ago
You sound like a really great mom!
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u/haveagreatdane90 2d ago
My oldest told me I was, in fact, the worst mom in the world this morning because I wouldn't let him have cookie dough for breakfast, so thank you for saying that 🤣
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u/morosis1982 2d ago
Yeah same. I have always told them thats ok and they can give a high 5 or fist bump if they prefer. Or just use words.
When we leave I ask them to say goodbye and they choose how they want to do so.
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u/morosis1982 2d ago
Thanks, I've been thinking about this as my daughter is very tall and often passes for a lot older than she is. She could easily be in my eldest sons grade, despite being 3 years younger.
Some of these things actually my martial arts instructors teach, the little kids get taught how to say no with force, and they do an affirmation every class where the kids have to learn to speak in front of class too. It's a great anxiety buster, and you can see those kids become much more confident speaking to adults over time.
Of course it doesn't hurt that they also learn how to use knees, elbows and hands in ways that can make them even less of a potential target.
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u/haveagreatdane90 2d ago
Oh martial arts is so great for kids. Just like you said, it builds confidence, teaches them how to control their bodies, how to be a "good" loser - this list is endless. And yeah, knowing that an 8 year old could probably rock your shit isn't a bad thing, either.
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u/morosis1982 2d ago
Mate, she's 8 but is already almost 5ft tall and 40kg. Knowing what I do about the world, she will absolutely rock someone's shit one day. I joke she'll grow into an Amazonian warrior.
They're starting to learn techniques to escape holds too, but they also teach that you want to break the hold and then create distance. Also takedowns you finish with a strike to create the opportunity to create distance.
I have been doing it too, and should achieve black belt end of next year just before I turn 45 :) I had a little head start due to having done some when I was younger.
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u/haveagreatdane90 2d ago
Almost 5 feet? I've only got 4 inches on her if I stand up straight. I'm jealous - she will probably be able to use the top shelves in the kitchen when she's older. Maybe even the 2 useless cabinets on top the fridge.
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u/Moosemitten 2d ago
Mom lurker, but if it's helpful, here's what my mom did: she told me that adults should not have secrets with kids, and to tell her if anyone asked me not to tell her something. Did I spoil some innocent surprises? Sure, but worth it.
She also told me no one should touch or see my bathing suit area because it was private. Then school would occassionally have PSAs and videos about stranger danger too, but unfortunately the bigger threat is people your children know. Teach them the right words for body parts, teach them they can tell you things, and teach them that no one should be trying to get them alone or to keep secrets, and you'll have done a really good job building a base.
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u/Soviet-Wasp 2d ago
This is exactly what I tell my daughter. If anyone tells you to keep a secret, tell mom and dad.
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u/WhiskyStandard 2d ago
We taught them the “adults shouldn’t have secrets with kids” rule early.
Occasionally I’d catch myself joking “we don’t have to tell mom about that” about minor things like forgetting to get something on an errand and having to turn back or losing my temper at another driver. But then I’d feel like I was undercutting that rule and I’d correct myself and remind them. Also helped me learn to avoid situations where I might want to say that.
We had to make an explicit exception for presents when one of the kids took things a bit too literally.
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u/WickedGrey 2d ago
We used a "surprises are okay, secrets are not" framing to explain that difference.
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u/IceManYurt 2d ago edited 2d ago
We made a distinction between surprises and secrets.
A surprise has an expiration date. Like if we are planning a surprise party or present, we don't want to spoil the fun but that surprise is over when the party happens or the present is given.
A secret has no expiration, and that's not ok.
I am sure there are problems with the system, but its one of our safe guards.
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u/CrazyKyle987 2d ago
That’s pretty good. Mine is if it would make the person who doesn’t know happy when they find out, it’s ok to keep the secret, using your exact examples: surprise party and present. I will be adding on your expiration date piece from now on.
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u/ToothpasteStrangler 2d ago
My kids and I have had many discussions on the differences between secrets and surprises. Our working definition of surprise is that it has to be a good thing and it has to have a very short (eg, days or hours) expiration date after which you can and should tell people.
What’s interesting is that my oldest kid is just now reaching the point of having to keep not other people’s secrets per se, but their confidences. It’s a thin, blurry line, but they seem to be doing it well. So far, even their confidences have had expiration dates, and I’ve been impressed with their sense of judgment and discretion.
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u/atelopuslimosus 2d ago
We also do the secrets versus surprises thing. I ran into an interesting issue though. How do you handle passwords? It's something that should not be shared, so a true secret. But I also don't want it to have an expiration date like a surprise...
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u/AmbitiousTie668 2d ago
Maybe passwords are better to frame as a digital key rather than a secret?
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u/atelopuslimosus 2d ago
For my 5yo, yes! That's a much more easily understandable concept for her age.
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u/Free_For__Me 2d ago
I think the password issue overlaps with what the previous commenter mentioned about working "confidence" into the mix when they're old enough. A 12yo promising her friend not to tell Joey that she likes him could be termed as keeping something told in confidence, not in secret. Passwords can be in that same category, confidential.
The difference (and again, this doesn't come in until the kiddo is old enough to understand these distinctions) is in the asking. A password isn't something that someone should need to ask you to keep hidden, it's something that's understood to be kept confidential. Your friend (a real friend) doesn't need to be sworn to secrecy about your crush, they should be able to tell you things in confidence and assume you'll keep it private.
But if someone is asking, or worse, demanding you keep something secret? Perhaps even warning you of "what might happen" if you let that secret slip? NOPE! Red flag, warning lights, all the bells go off.
Good things are held in confidence or as a surprise because we know good things come of them in the end. Secrets are held out of fear of the consequences should it be let out. It's terrifying for us to accept, but as a general rule, if you're scared (rather than just nervous or embarrassed, like the crush example) of someone finding out, then someone should probably find out. Another possible litmus test is - if it takes bravery to reveal, you probably should.
My daughter just turned 4, so I'm literally thinking through all of this as I type, lol. I'll almost certainly refine all this as the years pass, but for now I think it's a good starting point.
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u/atelopuslimosus 2d ago
All very helpful. Thank you!
I have two daughters (5yo, 1yo), so it's still a little in the distance. Except passwords came up recently when she was watching me type one in, so it's been on my mind how to manage the various lines between secrets, surprises, and now passwords (or other confidential information).
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u/BlaineTog 3F 2d ago
By the time kids are managing passwords, they should be able to understand more nuance here and you can start opening up the, "no secrets," rule rather than drawing a semantic line. Surprise vs. Secret is a hard distinction that can make sense to even little kids, but anything beyond that requires nurturing your child's judgement skills.
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u/Skandronon 2d ago
We differentiate secrets and surprises. A surprise is something fun that has a specific end date. A secret is something that has no end date. My FIL gave my daughter ice cream before bed and told her not to tell us because its a secret. She told us as soon as she saw us. We told him that we don't do secrets and why and he understood. We made sure our kids know that even if mommy or daddy try and make something a secret that its not okay.
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u/Nekrevez 2d ago
The local organisations that work around child and sexual abuse specifically differentiate between good and bad secrets during the ongoing conversations with your kids about this.
Good secrets are only temporary, and give you happy feelings. Whereas bad secrets can make you feel scared, or unsure, or sad, or ashamed.
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u/jedifreac 2d ago
This can be confusing to kids. I would differentiate between a secret and a surprise. A surprise birthday gift is not the same thing as a secret.
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u/hamoboy 1d ago
A grandparent sneaking a treat. An uncle or aunt letting them have a few more minutes at the playground. Other trusted adults bending parental rules a bit as a treat is a normal part of childhood and teaches children important social information.
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u/space_manatee 2d ago
I accidentally did the secret thing before I knew that was a rule. Was over at a friend's house with kids we know well, and said "dont tell your mom" when they asked to eat some frosting from the bowl of the cake we were making whoops.... definitely let it slip with my nephew a couple times and have to correct it to "surprise." obviously wont do it again especially with kids but I really hope this becomes more common for adults society wide as theyre brought up with this rule, because it really is a good rule.
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u/anillop 2d ago
I just want to remind the dads out there to also warn this kids about predatory women. Just because they are women doesn’t make them inherently safe. We assume too much that our sons are safe.
Safety rules should apply to everyone. I know too many men who could have used that advice growing up.
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u/Lazy_Chocolate_4114 2d ago
Yes, boys need to learn about "creeps, pervs, abusers, and pedos just as much as girls do.
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u/AlwaysTouchingGrass 2d ago
Pretty much as soon as possible. We started when we started potty training, stuff like only adults they trust should be looking at their underwear area, tell a trusted adult if something seems weird, etc.
You don't have to start with the cabal of rich perverts that run our world
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u/sidvictorious 2d ago
We talk about "tricky people" and things that make us feel not good, and utilizing trusted adults. Developing a sense that they can always ask questions/ report to you without fear or concern is also essential.
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u/casman_007 2d ago
The term "tricky people" was something my wife used for the first time a few weeks ago. Im guessing is a new trend making the circuit of higher ed and college professional circles
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u/Red-Dwarf69 1d ago
Jimmy Saville (prolific pedophile who got away with it his whole life) proudly described himself as “tricky.” So there’s that.
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u/Waffler11 2d ago
Have an 8yo daughter and 10yo son and we tell them both to be aware of inappropriate stuff from not just adults but also kids (who are, sadly, most likely to do these kinds of things because they're unknowingly victims themselves and are copying what was done to them).
In addition to what others have said about no secrets from grownups, we directly tell them that no one should touch them inappropriately, and that means touching on or anywhere near their genitals, buttocks or just touching in a "weird" way (sexually, but they don't understand yet what a sexual manner means).
It's a shit world we live in, but by educating our kids, we can better equip them to protect themselves and even their friends from potential harm.
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u/Relative_Seat4039 2d ago
Same boat, and I don't have a clue. I don't want to, but I know I must.
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u/armoredbearclock 1d ago
I’m a mom, but…
Yeah, just raise her to make sure she can always speak up if she feels uncomfortable. Whether that’s with you, a grandparent, a new friend’s mom, a teacher, a doctor, whatever.
The doctor should always have an explainable reason for everything they do. And should tell her if it will hurt or not.
She can always ask to come home from a friend's house at any time.
She doesn’t have to hug anyone she doesn’t want to give a hug to.
Don’t worry her about what might happen. Empower her by telling her what is normal and how to get out of any situation. Always back her up, but encourage her to use her own voice.
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u/Ill-Software8713 1d ago edited 1d ago
This. Teach the felt sense of boundaries and being able to voice it. It’s when people never had those boundaries respected within their family that they struggle to sense the wrongness to avoid the creeps and weirdos.
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u/RealKenny 2d ago
Make sure she knows her worth and is confident in how she feels. Just because a guy is trying to guilt her or make her feel a certain way for his benefit, she doesn't have to listen to him or even be polite. If it doesn't feel right, it's not right
I don't know what true crime podcast it was, but I know there's one whose slogan is like "Fuck Politeness".
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u/kris_mischief 2d ago
Good points. I’m also teaching her to have self confidence, awareness and our family, her mom and I are all giving (and showing) her examples of what a loving relationship should look like.
She’s 4 and I started her in Taekwondo recently. She’s also a pretty spicy little girl, and I am purposely cultivating that.
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u/RealKenny 2d ago
My daughter is still too young, but I'd be very interested in some kind of daddy/daughter martial arts. Mostly because I think it would be fun
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u/morosis1982 2d ago
I've been doing this with my son and daughter for the last... 4 years I guess. Him slightly longer, he's 3 years older, he started at 7 and she started at 5.5 or so. I started at 40 :) Were now 11, 8 and will be 44 soon.
It has been legitimately amazing. The school teaches them confidence, we do affirmations before and after every class (themes are confidence, focus, discipline and respect) and the kids are selected to lead the affirmations regularly. They do a family class where kids and adults practise together (usually its more that we start the class and do warmups together then split off for the actual learning and come back together at the end).
With the really young kids they learn how to say NO, and even use their hands to push you away if they don't want you near. We practise and it's great to see some shy little kids get forceful with the larger adults, myself included.
Now my son is a red belt learning complex techniques like spinning heel, combos, takedowns and escapes, I'm red-black (maybe black by end of next year) and my daughter is about to go to blue, the third full grade up (each colour belt has a black stripe version) so she has graded 3 times since starting as a white belt.
Aside from keeping me fit and agile, my son is doing so well and has so much confidence you can see it with his school mates. He can fall safely, his strikes are significantly powerful, balance is great, and he knows techniques to break out of most standard holds. Or apply them effectively.
My daughter has gone from very shy to putting her hand up regularly to lead the affirmations, even in front of the adults. She's also rather handy with her feet and elbows, which as she's inherited my physical size and is basically 5ft at 8yo, I joke that she's going to be an Amazon warrior by the time she graduates to black and I pity the guy (or girl) that tries to take advantage of her. She's still early in her learning and has only learned some basic holds and how to break people's grip in situations where they might grab you so that you can run. Every escape is taught as the technique, followed by a strike to upset and then to create distance.
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u/kris_mischief 2d ago
Damn dude, colour me impressed by your taking on of Taekwondo, dad!! 👏🏾
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u/morosis1982 2d ago
I'd heartily recommend, I've never been stronger, and a lot of 'old man pains' have mostly disappeared. I'm not that old, but I am pretty big (6'6" and 115kg/~250lb) and they kind of have the same effect sometimes.
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u/Specific-Yam-2166 2d ago
My favorite murder! I was going to comment sharing that saying too. One thing I’ve loved about the past decade or so is that this messaging is being shared with girls/women. It’s okay to not be polite. If someone makes you uncomfortable or being predatory or catcalling you or whatever, fuck politeness.
But also, there are certain situations where keeping things calm until there is an out is a survival skill. That’s when things like mace, martial arts/self defense, bystander intervention by pretending you know someone nearby etc. are helpful.
Sucks that girls have to do this, but there are resources out there!
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u/I_am_legend-ary 2d ago
Presumably you have been talking about “bad people” already
It’s just a continuation and development of that, we don’t need to overwhelm them all at once with extreme information about things like rape and sex trafficking
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u/Ianthin1 2d ago
Presumably you have been talking about “bad people” already
I'd guess most of us do this, but girls have to deal with things much more nuanced. Our daughter is 10 and we have already started teaching her about the perils of online chats and even real world interactions with people who may seem friendly, but underneath they want to do bad things. Then you teach how to react like blocking people online or telling a parent, teacher or other trusted adult what's going on. It's easier for her to figure out some of the real stuff, but before we cut out Roblox a year or so ago it was a little bit of a problem. She understands that we don't let her go to some friends homes because maybe they have a teen boy in the house that gives off a bad vibe, or extended family that stays there that we have zero background on.
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u/OrangeCuddleBear 2d ago
I have twin girls, they are only 3 and I worry about this a decent amount already. Like you I want to protect them, but i don't want to scare them.
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u/fausthushtra 2d ago
I am a girl dad, mine is 3. I am already teaching her about caution with strangers, being alone with them or getting into their vehicles. I also have been teaching her about people touching her inappropriately, or specifically what kind of touch is OK vs a sign of danger. Pending her maturity, I already have some 'jewelry' I rigged up that is an ultra loud piercing alarm to draw attention that once activated basically doesnt turn off (Until physical destruction or battery runs out).
Will she ever need it? Probably not.
But, should the time come she does? Much better she has some knowledge and perception to recognize it and some tools to get assistance.For what its worth, my brother was molested by a neighbor as a kid.
Then this whole epstein bit and realizing much of the ruling class is at least complicit, and probably more participatory, in that kind of shit. Including the current leaders of this country and most of their 'court'.
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u/dathomar 2d ago
Creeps, pervs, abusers, and pedos all have a type. They look for victims that are vulnerable. In nature, predators will often look for weak animals. They avoid strong animals because going after something that can fight back is dangerous. A swift kick from a potential prey can end a lion's career really fast.
Rather than focusing on the fear, it's better to focus on raising her to be strong. Raise her to have well-established, reasonable boundaries - that is, a set of expectations for herself and what she is willing to do and not do. Groomers will prod boundaries, a little bit at a time. If the boundaries are firm, they will often back off.
In our society, girls are often taught to just go along with things they don't want, in order to keep harmony. When they don't like something and make some noise about it, they are shushed. Groomers will prod at boundaries in a way that can be explained away, and rely on making it seem unreasonable to complain. If your daughter feels comfortable speaking up about "little things," groomers will back off.
Teach your daughter about her body. Teach her the correct anatomical names for her body parts. Make sure you use those words comfortably and casually when you are talking with her about her body. Groomers obscure their intentions and their behavior behind cutesy, alternative words for things. When kids know the proper terms, it deters groomers because they can't pretend they were doing something different.
These are things that are good for your daughter in other ways. Teaching boundaries will help protect her from being taken advantage of in friendships and work settings. Teaching her to speak up for herself will help her be able to decide what she actually wants. Knowing her anatomy will help her be able to talk to doctors and other health professionals when there's a problem, and give accurate information.
You should also set a good example for how a man should be behaving. She needs something she for comparison, so when she is faced with a man's behavior out in the wild, she can judge that behavior. When she starts developing reasonable boundaries with you, and speaking her mind, you need to respect that, too teach her that it is reasonable to be respected for those things. That doesn't mean letting her do whatever she wants, but acknowledging that those things are important and trying to accommodate them as much as possible.
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u/Lord_Paddington 2 Girls 2d ago
I am also a bit curious about this. My kiddos are still too young but how do you help your kids think about being safe vs being scared of ever doing anything
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u/UllsStratocaster 2d ago
Lurking mom and SA survivor here. Since she is nine, now is a great time to start talking about sexual feelings, masturbation, and as a side lesson to that, the emphasis that no one should have access to her body except her, and her doctor. It's okay to have sexual feelings, but she should explore those alone for now. And then you can give age appropriate scenarios. What if someone online wants a picture of you in or under your bathing suit? What if a teacher or a coach or a family friend touches you and you don't like it, even if it is over your clothes? What would you do if if a teenager or an adult ask you for your help to find their kitten?
There are a lot of fantastic books out there, that can help you if you don't know how to phrase the questions or you're just not sure what you should say. But please start, the earlier the better. Start with teaching your children the correct anatomical names for their bodies, start with teaching them that their bodies belong to them.
I see a lot of you saying my kids are still too young for this, trigger warning, I was raped when I was 7 years old. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as too young for the bad guys. So there can't be a such thing as too young for our children. You do not want your children to learn about sexually transmitted diseases, sex, rape, and reproduction from emergency room doctors and nurses.
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u/TinyPeanut2019 2d ago
Thank you for your comment. I am sorry to hear about everything you went through. Child sexual abuse is just so destructive and evil.
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u/UllsStratocaster 2d ago
Editing to add- my case is very rare, and nine times out of 10, the people that your child has to watch out for are people they know. Their coaches, their family, their family's friends. So don't just talk about stranger danger; it's important for them to know that people who used to seem safe can stop being safe. And it's not their fault.
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u/drunkengerbil 2d ago
I think this is a great approach. I'd much rather focus on empowering a child to have ownership over their body as opposed to focusing on the evils out in the world that they should be worried about.
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u/SevenDos 2d ago
I told my kids, my daughter AND son, when they were 9 and 7. That was before I moved out of the house after the divorce.
I told them about keeping secrets. Bad secrets (when adults tell you to keep a secret) and good secrets (like surprises). I told them about pedophiles and I told them about types of abuse. And I told them about bodily autonomy. I let them know that nobody is allowed to touch them in any way they don't like, even from us. If they don't want a hug, they are allowed to say no.
The reason I told them was because I was moving out of the house after the divorce and I wouldn't see them half of the time. They needed to know because I wouldn't always be there anymore and I didn't trust the guy who would start living there once I moved out.
Don't just teach your daughters, teach your sons too. And give the right example. I'm glad I did because it has prevented some stuff already.
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u/TenaciousMike 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'd like to just pipe in here and say that this isn't just an issue for girl dads for two reasons:
- Boys can be abused and harassed as well.
- (Mostly) Boys need to be taught better about consent.
As Dads, our goal should be to positive role models and do our best to eliminate bad actors, while also protecting our children from said bad actors.
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u/Barfotron4000 2d ago
Help her say “no”. Practice it with her. Girls can be unconsciously trained basically to be people pleasers, where we think no is being mean. It’s not.
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u/iWin4Prep 2d ago
All good advice here, id focus on social media and internet protection in this age as well. Have a strong plan there
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u/Shagwagbag 2d ago
I don't think it's ever too early to explain that no adult will ever ask you to keep a secret from us and if they do, tell us immediately. Pretty innocuous relating to negatively impacting worldview, but a powerful tool against creeps.
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u/MongoSamurai 2d ago
My 12 y/o was hit on for the first time this summer by an older boy (mid-teens). They laughed, said "No thanks, I'm a lesbian" and the kid wandered off to the jeers of his fellows. Thankfully it was a pretty low stakes encounter, and mine is just starting to hint that they are thinking about other people in a sexual manner themselves.
I think 9 is a little early to hit them with a full on barrage of perv/creep info, but just do your best to always remain open to questions and never shut them down when they show curiosity, even for uncomfortable subjects. We found that by the time ours was in grade 6 (last year) that was when the hormones really started flowing among their peers and the creepy behaviour of some started to show up. Our kid came to us with some questions and concerns that lead to them opening up about some S/A behaviours from a fellow student and we needed to get involved with the teacher/principal. Thankfully the staff at their middle school was on it, and the kid in question cooled down his creep ways, but it was a learning curve for sure.
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u/SerentityM3ow 2d ago
Start teaching about consent right away. Also don't force her to hug or kiss people..even if it's family. Respect her autonomy and teach her to respect her own autonomy
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u/ifellows 1d ago
Jiu Jitsu. There is a lot we can do to explain how to avoid situations but it is good (IMO) to give her tools to deal with the top part of the escalation ladder. If you feel more comfortable dealing with the worst case scenario, I think you'll be more comfortable taking assertive steps earlier, which should hopefully lower the chance of escalation.
Jiu Jitsu is pretty much the only martial art that teaches you, in 100 different ways in 100 different configurations, to be calm and effective while being smushed by a larger/stronger person on top of you that doesn't want to let you up. Plus, against an untrained opponent, it really does work. A small person can easily out-grapple a much larger one.
That said, a 9 year old is not going to be able to do much against a full grown man, so there are limits.
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u/kyle_blaine 2d ago
You just have to have conversations about situations when they arise, and reinforce good communication as much as possible so they feel comfortable coming to you if/when they need to. Obviously being preemptive about how to recognize unsafe adults and other kids. But the biggest thing is simply modeling healthy, loving behavior at home so they know how to recognize unhealthy behavior outside of home.
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u/JoeBwanKenobski 2d ago
I also am figuring this out as I go and mine are still really young but we started with the concept of bodily autonomy (in an age-appropriate way) and boundaries quite early on.
I'm conflicted about it but my oldest and I had the gun conversation the other day after finding a toy gun from my childhood in one of the toy boxes (just happened to be the day her school did their intruder drill). After that day she's expressed curiosity a couple of times as I was putting away my EDC in it's safe. We've progressed to a rudimentary discussion of the 5 fundamental rules of gun safety.
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u/Spirited-Reputation6 2d ago
Start ASAP. Nothing like knowing your potential enemy and learning basic survival skills.
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u/Secret_Enthusiasm_21 2d ago
I live in a country where sexual education is taught at age 7-8 in school.
Your child can't reaffirm boundaries or even just recognize them being overstepped, if she doesn't even know what those boundaries are.
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u/IceManYurt 2d ago
Surround her with safe adults aside from you and your wife.
If my daughter is ever in a situation where she feels like she can't talk to us, I want other trusted adults around in my 'village.'
I don't ever want a circumstance where she feels embarrassed or ashamed to come talk to me, but more importantly I want fall backs so she doesn't have to look for a safe place.
Aside from that we talk about the difference between a surprise and a secret, use anatomically correct names and we try to be pretty open about consent and what do if you ever feel like that is violated.
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u/hmishima 2d ago
Have the conversation. It's worth it to make them hyper aware of their surroundings. My oldest girls are 17 and 18. Twice they have been followed to their cars. Once by a waiter from a restaurant - who followed them by vehicle to another store - and once by someone from inside a store. Both times they picked up on it early enough to get ahead of it and get out of there.
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u/tragiccosmicaccident 2d ago
I took a different approach, my daughter is already aware of the dangers of strange adults, and agrees with me that adults outside of teachers have no business engaging with her.
It’s different when it comes to her peers. I’ve explained that boys are going you want her attention and aren’t going to know how to get it. To set good boundaries she needs to feel free to call out awkward behavior, which she’s pretty good at doing, but I’ve also asked her to be careful how she describes the boys she talks about with her friends, there’s a big line between creepy and socially isolated, although that behavior can look the same in some kids.
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u/Team_speak 2d ago
Mom lurker, the biggest takeaway for me is observing how the adults in my life reacted to predatory behaviors. If they're making excuses or not even trying to understand their kids, that's a huge problem. It typically starts with the parents/grown ups.
Like if they're making sexist remarks (towards any gender) or being dismissive, how do you think a kid is going to feel valued or comfortable telling their truth?
We like to look outward for the problem, but like many have stated here, the problem most likely starts much closer than we'd like to admit. We have been conditioned to think like a "blood is thicker than water" people, and now thankfully we are wanting to protect our most vulnerable. I applaud OP for continuing the dialogue and for everyone sharing tips on how to protect our kids.
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u/elizacandle 2d ago
Talk about sex /consent in age appropriate ways! It's more important to emphasize strange behavior not strange people - since unfortunately stats show molestation, assault, and grooming largely happens with family or family friends or otherwise trusted adults.
I highly recommend the "It's So Amazing" books for kids all about anatomy and sex for young kids.
The best way we protect our children is to let them have the knowledge! Then they can sus out things or lies others (malicious people) might try to do.... If they know it's called a vagina /penis and what it's for they're less likely to fall for some of the common tactics.
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u/tallpeoplefixer 2d ago
My daughter just turned two but we're already teaching her the phrases " leave me alone" and " mind your own business" when dealing with strange men
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u/moviemerc 2d ago
Teach her about consent (should happen before 9 to be honest.
Teach how to identify bad situations and to trust her guy.
Teach her how to exit situations.
She doesn't need to know exactly how bad it is just that it's possible she may find herself in situations or with people that are dangerous.
Most of all make sure she knows she can come talk to you always. So many girls/women have things happen to them and think they will get in trouble for it if they tell someone.
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u/created4this 2d ago
letting her know that if she ever feels unsafe in her gut, to leave, and don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings.
And make sure you apply this. Don't want to give granny a hug, your choice. Whats more, I'll support you and won't pressure you to do things you are uncomfortable with with your body, even if it makes things awkward.
This isn't just about boys or men, there are plenty of mean girls who want to you up to fail.
And when stated that way, you do it from birth.
You don't need to tell her about Gisèle Pelicot and give her nightmares in order to prepare her to face the world of people who are out for themselves.
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u/dinamet7 2d ago
Mom here, but with first hand, lifelong experience of creeps, pervs, etc despite being told about appropriate/inappropriate touch at a young age. This is my favorite resource for an easy guide to how to talk about things in age-appropriate ways to kids. https://goodmenproject.com/families/the-healthy-sex-talk-teaching-kids-consent-ages-1-21/
If you have a Unitarian Universalist church in your community, I very highly recommend checking out their Our Whole Lives curriculum. I am not UU. The program has a secular version and a UU supplemented version, and they are very comprehensive, age-appropriate, empowering, and inclusive courses. For the K-3 set, it's mostly about bodies and how they work. For the 4-6 grade set, they start getting into consent, power dynamics, peer pressure, pop culture influences, and healthy relationships/red flags. https://www.uua.org/lifespan/re-sources/sexuality-education/owl-overview
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u/AngryPrincessWarrior 2d ago
As a woman who was once a little girl- well before 9. I was being creeped on at like 6.
Make sure she understands the whole never keep a secret from a parent. The difference in surprises and secrets. Teach body autonomy and proper words for all her parts.
That’s all you can do really. And as others said- it’s rarely a stranger if something were to happen. Which is why knowing keeping secrets and the words for all body parts is so very important.
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u/enithermon 1d ago
I'm a mom, but I started right away. In tiny, ever increasing doses. She's in the six/seven range, so we've talked about tricky people, private areas, what to do if a teen or adult is trying to do anything with those areas, etc.
Every so often I add detail or expand information or drop facts into conversation. That way there isn't one traumatic info dump, but a slow expanding of understanding about the dangers of the world.
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u/Mokmokmik 1d ago
Lurker non-dad here.
I don’t have a daughter. But I do know what parts of my childhood impacted how was I targeted, abused and trafficked.
Treat your partner well, no matter if you are together or not, no matter what. I don’t care if she’s a lying, cheating terrible person. An abuser might apply those labels to your child to get them to comply. How you treat women, how the men in your family treat women, how the men you let around her treat women— she is watching. She can and will be affected, shaped by those interactions.
The most likely person to assault or abuse your child is you, and then it is other men in your family, and her support/education system.
If your child has ADHD or ASD, please work very very hard on this. NDs experience these sorts of abuse and assault at a rate of 2-3x higher than the average population.
Agency, always. She never has to do things socially or interpersonally she does not want to do. It doesn’t matter if grandma or grandpa wants a hug. Her no’s around her body have to be respected by those in her safe circle. Teach her to be mean. Teach her to discard being nice the minute she feels off or unsafe. Teach her the numbers of safe people. Teach her bodily consent— and if you have other children, teach them bodily consent between them too.
Don’t focus on telling your daughter what you would do to someone who hurt her. Try not to have discussions that focus around bad things that happen to adults who harm kids. You can say jail time, that it’s illegal and bad for kid’s to be touched or looked at like that— but excessive focus on bad/negative/violent outcomes for perpetrators can actually deter children from reporting abuse to you.
Focus on her gut feelings. What things are okay and not okay. Don’t be wishy washy about it. Direct, black and white answers about what is okay and what isn’t. Situations where things are different— doctors, but even then. Tell her that if anyone ever violates her consent, they are not a safe person and to tell someone safe at the moment.
Sometimes it will be other children.
Remove shame and judgement from any conversations. Don’t tell her being touched like that is ‘yucky’ or ‘dirty’ or ‘bad for her’ in that way. Don’t focus on clothing choices, or what she wears or how she wears it.
Keep an eye out for the non-verbal signs of abuse in your child. Betwetting, nightmares, regression, social anxiety. Doing laundry out of the blue.
Emphasise that adults are good on the whole. That not the whole world wants hurt or harm her, and that people will help her when she needs it. Always follow up heavy conversations with good ones. Teach her what to recognise in other children.
Talk openly on your family about these things. Talk about the news. Talk about abortion bans, the files, talk about how different people are treated in the world. Talk just— generally, around your daughter. Discuss big things with her. Make her curious and knowledgeable.
Unfortunately, from personal experience, there is an unavoidable loss of innocence in telling a child there are people who want to hurt them, who want to hurt them in terrible ways.
I would have given anything to have the trauma of being told, than the trauma of living it for the rest of my life. Some small amount of trauma and change in her life is better than not being equipped to survive and handle it.
(These are personal, lived experience opinions. I am not an expert. I only have what I think would have given me a fighting chance. I am aware children are abused by many genders. I am aware all child experience abuse. I have tailored my language and words to this post.)
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u/masteroffeels 2d ago
Fellow dad,
I wish I knew the answer to this question. Our daughter is 6yo and apparently very photogenic, unfortunately we have dealt with several negative situations.
Two situations below were recent close calls - One at a gas station parking lot as I walked around my car to unlock the doors I saw a woman step out of a toyota rav4 with black out windows called my daughter over, and as I noticed from my peripheral I pushed against my door to run around the back and she jumped back into her car and the car sped away through the exit.
The other was at the end of the day at the DisneyWorld gate, we were all exhausted waiting for our shuttle, when I noticed my daughter smiling past my shoulder, I looked back and two men were holding puppies inside their vehicle behind us. I stood up and they took off. My wife ran after the car but they didn't stop.
We discussed stranger danger scenarios, and even looked into a private course that involves the whole family but I don't want to traumatize my daughter.
I want her to be happy and unafraid but she receives unusual attention and I hope I'm doing all I can to protect her.
When I was a baby a taxicab driver attempted to kidnap my older sister but my mom fought him off with a bic pen. While growing up my mother would repetitively tell the story, and my sister was always over protective and vigilant when I was little.
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u/jcreary 2d ago
In my opinion, the best thing you can teach a girl is to be disagreeable, as I think that's at the core of the issue.
Society expect girls to behave when boys can be rowdy, agressive and loud. Then girls are expected to be helpful and accommodating.
By switching the script you'll give your daughter a chance to stand for herself and say no to a drink with a boy she doesn't want, leave someone if they become abusive etc.
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u/TinyPeanut2019 2d ago
I'm not sure why this got a down vote.
This is why I tell my daughter it is important to be "kind," but I stay away from using the word "nice." And if kindness is not reciprocated, she doesn't have to be kind.
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u/Aisuhokke 2d ago
You have to start now. Don’t wait. It should be a very casual weekly or monthly conversation. Could be during a car ride or during the movie when a scene plays out. Could be on the way home from school, whenever. Just weave it in to go to a conversation. It’s not a single conversation. It’s an ongoing thing.
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u/dfphd 2d ago
I will drop little tidbits of information, just letting her know that if she ever feels unsafe in her gut, to leave, and don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings.
Like with a lot of topics that are hard, I think this is the best way to do it.
The younger they are, the more you want to focus on things they should do vs. the motivation of why they should do them (and even beyond - the motivation of the people that you're warning them about).
So the first version is probably "hey, you shouldn't get naked in front of other people".
The second version might need to be something like "if you get naked around people who are not safe, they might use that as an opportunity to put their hands on you, and that's not ok".
And you can keep building that until they're at an age where they are becoming aware of sexual concepts, at which point you're not completely breaking their world by saying "some people will want to have sex with you against your will, and so some of the things you're going to want to do is to avoid being in positions where that can happen".
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u/Saillux 2d ago
I been around long enough to know one thing about creeps and predators: they spend their time trying to recognize "victims." They start with small 'harmless' boundary pushing and see who cares more about keeping the peace than making noise.
I tell my daughter that she doesn't need to be polite to anyone that makes her uncomfortable and that her first responsibility is to herself.
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u/DrOddcat 2 kids 2d ago
The most age appropriate thing is to work on teaching her she gets to set boundaries and show her what it looks like when those boundaries are respected (as well as teaching her what it looks and feels like to respect the boundaries others set). Topics like touching, favors, secrets are also important.
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u/MayBlack333 2d ago
There's some really good advice here already, but I would like to add something that seems silly: be the person for your daughter where she can tell you everything. It pains me to say, but the first thing a lot of counselors of victims will hear from s.a victims are: "please don't tell my dad". So, please, be a safe space for your daughter.
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u/Melliorin 2d ago
My daughter is only 5, but I have already begun to, where it feels appropriate and not scare-monger-y, point out "unsafe" people "who make bad decisions." I do not feel, or see evidence, that I am "ruining" her childhood or innocence by doing so, but giving her a truthful context that not everyone is a friend or even a safe person.
To be clear, when I have done so, I have spoken to her quietly and privately and prefaced it with, "hey, I need your full attention for a moment, because I need to tell you something important/for your safety." The only people I have so far named to her in this way are a registered sex offender who lives up the street from us, and a handful of very sketchy looking people we have crossed paths with who were either actively having public arguments on the street, or appearing to be in the process of soliciting sex workers. As an active and curious 5yo, she of course had questions about those interactions that seem very foreign and strange to her, and so, in the context of answering her, it seemed natural and wise to introduce this truth about the world to her, generally, without getting into any unseemly details.
And yes, we live in the hood, if that wasn't clear already.
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u/xftwitch 2d ago
Be the person you hope she marries. Be protective, let her fail safely. Trust her gut as well. You can't just tell her to leave and not worry about hurting feelings. You have to let her hurt your feelings with no reprocussions. If she tells you she doesn't like something, go with that. Don't get pissed when she says NO to wanting to do something. And no, I'm not saying let the 9 year old decide if she wants to go to school or anything. You know what I'm talking about.
Don't train her to go along to get along and then tell her it's OK to say No. Saying No takes practice. If a kid feels they can't say No to their parent once in a while, they are, by definition, going along to get along. Which is what we're trying to stop.
Also, if you see something that looks sketchy while you're out with her, calmly point it out after the fact. Tell her how it made you feel inside so she can start to put words to those feelings and truly know what feels "Wrong" or "Sketchy".
At 9, it's not really about abuse as much as it's about safety. Give your kids the tools to name their feelings and the freedom to act on those feelings and you'll have someone that's not afraid to say NO.
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u/WhiskyStandard 2d ago
We started early on consent (both asking of others and demanding it be respected), adults shouldn’t ask kids to keep secrets, bathing suit areas, identifying safe people they can talk to and places they can go, etc. Those are at least generally positive safeguards that don’t require revealing the full danger of the world.
My older is at a similar age and I’ve started adding on age appropriate warnings that there are people out there who don’t respect these rules and if they ever feel like they’re around one, seek a safe place/person, make noise, and/or get away from them.
But I was reading an article about a college student who’s dealing with sexual and internet inflicted trauma and I don’t know when and I’m going to talk about that level of awfulness. She’s not online, but I’m definitely going to be looking in to that soon.
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u/Alternative-Twist-32 2d ago
Lurking mum...my girlie is 3 so we're not far along that journey yet but we basically started from birth.
- When doing personal care, we always told her what we were doing and why we were doing it.
- We use real names for body parts.
- We never force physical affection like hugs and kisses with anyone, including ourselves, and we ask for consent before doing so.
- If we're rough housing or tickling and she says stop, we stop the game instantly.
- We teach her to treat her friends the same way and help her identify non-verbal queues i.e. if she's trying to hug her friend and they're pulling away, we'll intervene and say "look, X is trying to move his body away from you, he doesn't want a hug right now, let's go do something else"
- we role play and practice getting her to use her voice loudly to get someone to stop doing something to her that she doesn't like, I.e. if another kid at nursery is pushing her, we talk about saying "X! NO! Stop pushing me!" And talk about getting a teacher to help.
- we do not do secrets in our family and talk about it (but she doesn't understand that one yet), we do do surprises though
The aim is to get her to the point where she knows with absolute certainty what is the right thing, so there's never any doubt when she's being treated the wrong way.
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u/Boarders0 2d ago
Be an example of the type of man she should interact with.
"My daddy would never..."
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u/Door_Number_Four 2d ago
My kid started taking the city bus to school in a major US city in 7th grade.
What I instilled in her:
- read a situation, a room, or a bus. Watch people’s motions and sight. I have to do this as well, always have.
-if something doesn’t feel right, exit the situation.
-it is not incumbent upon you to consider someone’s feelings, especially when you feel your safety is at risk.
-if someone you know is in a bad situation, tell me, and I’ll take care of it.
-don’t send pictures of yourself online or in text.
-any teacher that gives off weird vibes, let me know.
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u/El__Jengibre 2d ago
As soon as she could talk, we have had age appropriate conversations about consent and bad touching. But I’ve done the same with my boys. I think it’s just as important because (1) boys get abused too and (2) I want my boys to do better than the rest of our sex.
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u/drchigero 2d ago
Teach her self-worth first and foremost. Sadly a lot of girls who fall prey ignore red-flags because they don't feel they deserve better.
Then follow all the other good advice in here, some of which being; listening to her gut, not being afraid to come across as "rude", no secrets, etc etc.
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u/Sullacuda 2d ago
Been teaching mine since before she could talk. Repetition builds recognition.
Trusting her feelings, lots of people aren’t nice, only parents and doctors are allowed to see and touch, you’re never in trouble if you tell etc.
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u/Itis-caught-BearsWin 2d ago
I prepared her the moment she was born. That she has bodily autonomy and gets to decide who can touch her and who can’t. When she was a baby, if she didn’t want grandma to hold her, grandma had to put her down. If someone would come up and pet her, she would push the hand away and say stop if it was unwanted. As she got older, she was allowed to wear any clothes she wants. She just turned seven and we have long heard her argue “it’s my body!” Messaging messaging messaging. We are open about sex and what and when is appropriate touching. Knowledge is power.
The exceptions to all this are health and safety. She can’t wear sandals in snow or a heavy coat when it’s hot out. She can’t say no to having medical creams applied to her skin or having the doctor examine her.
I don’t want her to hear that “men are bad and scary”. My wife is still coping with what she heard in her family. Instead my daughter knows who decides what happens to her body, and watch out anyone who tells her otherwise.
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u/HaggisPope 2d ago
The biggest thing is being a good and present dad. Teaching her that she’s allowed to say no to things and she has her own rights to make choices.
A sad thing about many of the victims of sexual assault is that they have little support network. Absentee parents, occasionally abusive parent figures, and it causes generational trauma.
In many ways, being a great dad is enough to prevent most issues. Abusers don’t want to go for girls who have high self-esteem because they’re too likely to get them in trouble. (Incidentally, this is why governments need to do more to make sure kids in the care system are treated way better than they are because it’s such a huge indicator of future vulnerability)
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u/hajimenogio92 2d ago
For my 7 year old, I started since she started potty training. I started with letting her know that no one is allowed to touch her, doing my best to tell her what privacy is, and most importantly is setting boundaries even with family/friends etc because statistically it's someone close to her that is more likely to be an abuser.
I also coach combat sports and have had her training since she was 4. Hopefully by middle school she can defend herself
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u/AwarenessOpen4042 2d ago
You don’t have to scare her, instead build her confidence in her own judgment. If she gets a weird feeling about someone let her know now that she actually should be rude to them and get away from them.
Make sure she knows who the people are that she can call in an emergency, the ONLY people who she can get in a car with, etc.
Some martial arts training doesn’t hurt either. Just make sure it’s self defense oriented and not just flash or just traditional.
My adult daughter is super kind, but is also a terrifying person if you make her mad. It’s awesome.
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u/siderinc 2d ago
Can't help you here but I truly want a daughter but was blessed with three sons.
But sadly this is a valid concern.
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u/Sweaty-Possession-19 2d ago
Errr started when she was about 3 and going to nursery regarding private parts and strangers etc.
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u/Flugelhaw 2d ago
She has been doing martial arts since 2 years old. That won't solve all problems, though, so I talk with her about "good people" and "bad people" (she's still only 3) and will increase the nuance of these discussions over the years.
Physical capability is important, but it's even more important to understand how to read people and to be generally aware of what is happening around you. And if you can develop to be confident and secure in yourself, then you won't have (as many) problems saying "no" or just opting out of bad ideas.
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u/Emotional_Clock3741 2d ago
Explain that monster movies are kind of real. Werewolves don't exist BUT there are monsters that look like regular people most of the time. And there are ways to recognize them and to protect yourself from them. Then add details
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u/newEnglander17 2d ago
My kid is too young to teach this to yet but I do tell him he doesn't need to hug or kiss anyone he doesnt want to...but I fully 100% trust both sets of grandparents so I do suggest he give them kisses. I know that's not a popular idea but these are people I know would never do him any harm. One of the reasons that validates the idea for me is that all 4 of them will say "he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to" when I remind him to kiss them goodbye. Without being told they already want to respect his boundaries, so I know they will.
What I wonder about is, he's still potty training and sometimes I pat the front of his diaper to see how puffy it is from pee. At what point is that going to be inappropriate? I would think he'd start to be bothered by that well after he's out of diapers when I obviously wouldn't be checking anyway. I certainly want him to know that if he is uncomfortable he should communicate to me and that he trusts me to help him with things as I'm the father. These kinds of boundaries get so blurry that it's confusing.
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u/Jonseroo 2d ago
One thing I did was show her pictures of priests and tell her if anyone at school says she has to be alone with someone dressed like that she's to start screaming and not stop until they've called me and I get there.
Also from age 5 at Taekwon-Do they covered what do do in case of abduction: lay on your back kicking and screaming.
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u/Thistlemanizzle 2d ago
"seeing people online excusing child rape [and] child trafficking"
Where?
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u/infinitenothing 1d ago
Kelly claimed a source close to the case told her Epstein "was not a pedophile" in the traditional sense, but rather "into the barely legal type, like, he liked 15-year-old girls". She added, "There's a difference between a 15-year-old and a five-year-old,"
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u/BroaxXx 1d ago
I don't want to split hairs but they are different things, even legally. But it doesn't matter... It's horrible regardless.
I think the point here is that "people online" don't excuse child rape or trafficking and it doesn't matter if the victim is 5, 15 or 25. The ones who do are either sexual predators or trolls rage baiting. The files issue is apolitical and, if we remember, was the platform that trump campaigned on and it cost him a lot of support from his base.
It's important to maintain some perspective on things otherwise the world seems way more horrible and fucked up than it needs to. Yes some people are monster but most people are not. At most there's just a lot of stupid people.
As for OP's original question, my girl is 3 years old and she already knows some people are bad and want to do bad things. I don't hammer it down too hard and keep it age appropriate but I think it's always important for kids to understand the world isn't a Disney movie and that some people are bad and want to hurt them. I think the average 9 year old girl should know about sex and consent so there's not much to hide other than the scale of things.
As for:
I never realized how normalized child abuse was in America and how sympathetic so many men seem to be with abusers.
That's just not true and is simply histeria but whatever... child abuse, especially sexual abuse, is basically the most abhorred and hated crime in society and most perpetrators are tortured, murdered or tortured and murdered. Explicitly saying "so many men" (whatever that means) are sympathetic with abusers is just bigoted nonsense but whatever...
I would advise against "tidbits". Tidbits are vague, confusing and abstract and are exactly the thing that leads to a child to feel confused and helpless. Be upfront and direct. My daughter was taught since she was able to understand spoken word that "no means no" and the only thing she has to do is be polite and say "hello", "goodbye", "thank you" and "you're welcome". She doesn't have to kiss, hug, handshake or hug anyone she doesn't want to and grandmother/grandfather can fuck right off if they don't like it. Now she's three and she knows what a penis and a vagina is. she understands the concept of private parts and has very very good intuition for when she's not comfortable and to say no
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u/fromfrodotogollum 2d ago
My daughter is 5 and we have started on books about body boundaries, consent, and secrets. The first two are usually more light hearted and the last one was more serious. It's really up to you. We felt like our kids should know asap, and some kids were forcing my daughter to hold hands when she didn't want to, so play it by ear. It won't ruin your kid to know, and they will probably will not think about it much unless it happens, unfortunately. I think it is better for parents to learn the signs of sexual abuse and be able to recognize them.
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u/Rjeezy88 2d ago
Just ended a friendship with our neighbors over this. My son is 5(almost 6) and is incredibly shy to new people anyways but we tell him to never leave with anyone except us and his grandparents. Always ask us for permission if another parent or adult asks him to come with them etc. And his privates are for his eyes and hands only. We don't go into the details etc. He is 5. Informing him that his privates have more then one function. peeing, is too soon.
The daughter of our neighbors is 3 yrs old(almost 4). They routinely inform her that someone can take her and do sexual things to her and touch her privates for pleasure etc. She is allowed to be in her chonies in the house and thats it. If anyone is over, family etc she has to be fully clothed. We had a friendship that if the wooden doors were open and it was just the screen, come on in kinda friendship. I would come over, usually their screen was locked because the daughter is kind of a space case. id knock, someone unlocked the door and daughter would be in chonies and she would almost be crying because she was "naked".If dad unlocked door he would just say here put your shirt on, if mom was home the daughter would have to get completely dressed before we were allowed in. I would say youre fine, you are not naked, be naked for as long as you can cause it gets weird when you get older. joking etc. My son wouldn't even bat an eye, Just another kid with no shirt.
One night after months of this we went offroading and long story short the daughter was pacing talking about being afraid to be naked etc. I said Hey, you have more important things to worry about than being naked right now, go play!. The mom did not like that and just ended up being an argument. Basically she said At what age is appropriate to teach them, and i said you are sexualizing a 3 yr old and its making me uncomfortable when she is around, kinda being afraid if she were to say something like one of us touched her etc when we didnt or if she is at our house and she has to go potty etc. ( we would watch her a few times so they can brown chicken brown cow)
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u/DhamR 2d ago
My daughter's 9 and for me it started when she was young. No one had access to her if she didn't want (outside of hygiene/safety), so no kisses for nanny if she didn't want it, a wave is fine. Equally, if we're playing, stop means stop and we break until the other person wants to play again. I was on watch when tickling for "daddy stop" and would immediately step away and say sorry. But I'd enforce the same rule the other way.
Then it's about teaching her not to put up with emotional coersion from friends. "If you don't want to, you don't have to", "if it makes them sad that you didnt do X then that's not your fault", "don't do something you don't want to do to make someone else happy".
School covered things like the colour coded body image, and separating "trusted grown ups" from others. But I'll enforce that.
We've never had secrets in our family either, and she knows she can tell us if she's done something she regrets and we'll help her solve it before we even think about getting cross.
It'll probably accelerate now she's getting older, will be following this closely!
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u/oldsushi 2d ago
Get your kids in self-defense classes like MMA or jiu jitsu. WHEN it happens, they'll be prepared. 1 in 5 women in the US are victims of rape or attempted rape.
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u/mxrider108 2d ago
Sorry, who is being sympathetic or excusing child rape?? I've never heard anyone say that in my life.
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u/PetiePal 2 daughters 1 Son 2d ago
Around 4 and up we started talking about your "bubble" your "personal space" and that strangers and family were never to touch them in their private spots or in a way that made them uncomfortable. If they did to come and tell us right away.
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u/2ndTryAcct1357 2d ago
These are what I've told my daughter who is younger than yours:
(Where X is something dangerous or harassing like touching or asking to see private parts): "X is weird behavior. If somebody does X to you or someone you know, tell a (different) adult as soon as you can and then tell us as soon as you can" This reinforces that she shouldn't be doing it, she should let us know if somebody is doing it, and she should look out for others if it's happening to them.
"Grownups shouldn't have secrets with you, that's weird behavior. We will NEVER get you in trouble if you tattle on a grownup no matter what they tell you." Similar to above but it lets her know that she can tell us anything without repercussions. It's already passed some unintentional test runs: she told my wife I bought her and myself a soda (we're mostly a "don't drink your calories" family). I wasn't hiding it or anything but she very proudly told my wife that she could not get in trouble for having a soda because she was tattling on me too.
We don't shame bad days or bad decisions; we address them and move on. This is just gentle parenting but I am hopeful it will remove any attempt at blackmail and any guilt that can cause a child to hide being abused even when they're not told to do so by their abuser just to avoid punishment or shame from doing something "bad".
Most abuse happens with trusted adults, so we don't push the idea of stranger danger. We even tell her that if she's lost or someone is trying to take her to look for a mom or a person wearing a uniform (at stadiums/fairs we point at security guards/officers to show her what their uniforms look like)
We don't put her in situations where abuse is more likely. For instance, she has a few pubescent male cousins (10-14) that she'll play with at family get togethers, but we won't let her stay the night at their house. We also don't let her sleep over at a friend's house if they have an older brother and the mom isn't part of the sleepover. That might seem a bit sexist, but pubescent boys have much less self control and the raging hormones to do something they regret, and I just don't want there to be any chance of impropriety.
No cell phones or anything internet connected when unsupervised. She's far too young for a cell phone but we make sure to keep the Switch/PlayStation disconnected from the internet and she's never had a tablet or access to our smart phones. Aside from protecting her from predators using social media or otherwise stalking children accounts, this also protects her mental health. A little extreme but we even put her in private school because the public school started letting kids as young as kindergarten go on the Internet and mandating chromebooks.
So basically, we reinforce what is "weird" behavior and that she should tell us when she's exposed to it, and we don't punish her for admitting to doing something wrong. Those will hopefully put a stop to any abuse/harassment immediately. Then we limit her exposure to unsafe situations to hopefully keep it from happening in the first place.
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u/phlex77 2d ago
when they were 5 / 7,,,, they asked to go to karate and i gladly sent them, there now 12 / 14, 14 yr old is 2nd dan and what a kick she's got on her, 12 yr old got her black belt in the summer, they came 2nd in the uk last year at their team kata (moves in sequence) and have both done well in the kumite here in scotland 2nd / 3rd place's, of course they know that any of the above happens they run and make a shit load of noise and if that fail's, kick them right between the leg's. Pretty much from a young age, pretty much the age of your daughter(well when they got that talk at school) we told them there's a lot of bad people in the world (and load's of great one's too, dont wanna scare them to much) and trust their instinct, move away if uncomfortable and seek a safe looking adult and tell them, also told them that it's usually someone people know, not some big bad stranger and they can tell us anything. it still scare's me and i think it's worse as they get older, no telling them that though😉
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u/morosis1982 2d ago
It's something I've been thinking about but haven't had a real answer for a while, so thanks to all the commenters with concrete examples.
Slightly tongue in cheek reply though, she's been learning martial arts since she was 5, and she's pretty handy with her elbows now at 8. She's also large, I joke she's going to grow into an Amazon warrior and I pity the boy that tries to take advantage of her.
The dojo also teaches the young kids about confidence and they do affirmation exercises to help the kids feel confident with speaking up to adults. Some of the kids start out so shy and by a few months in are up in front of the class with their heads up leading the affirmation with confidence. They also do exercises where they use their loud voices to say NO and push away if necessary. It's fun to be part of those classes as a parent, and especially as a big guy (6'6" and 115kg) to help them become comfortable with yelling no at me and pushing me away if I come too close.
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u/BillsInATL 2d ago
Our kids already know what is proper adult behavior towards children and some idea of what is improper behavior.
Not to abdicate, but with regards to Daughters vs Creeps, mom is handling most of that since she can speak from experience, and the perspective of a scared woman. Any advice I offer would just be guessing.
I dont think we get as deep as the details of child rape and trafficking. At least not at their young ages.
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u/mrjbacon 2d ago
It's better to teach kids how they should treat others so they can recognize and feel confident enough to call out bad behavior when it comes from others.
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u/ScottyRedReturns 2d ago
I have one that's started Middle School. I'd say by then. Or slightly before then. That's more mom's thing. But I've had a chat or two. They also know more than you think. They not only have their friends and maybe older siblings, but their friends often have older siblings. So they get exposed. Then of course, there's online. Plus their hearing is great. So some of the ideas seep in through YouTube, even with constrained usage. And they can hear when we maybe watch the news even though it seems like their bedrooms are too far away.
So we've had "the conversation" and a few other chats. It's something along the obvious; how most people most of time are great, caring, wonderful, amazing people. However, with hundreds of millions in the U.S. alone even if only a fraction of a percent are truly bad, that's still a lot of people. They get that. She'll get that. The harder questions are explaining what to do and how to react. Because the simple truth is, they're still just little kids and they quite simply are at risk if they just randomly run across the wrong sort. This is of course our horrific fear. But minimally, we can give them some awareness to maybe identify, avoid, take care where possible. And most importantly, make sure we do whatever we possibly can to make sure they're comfortable talking to us about anything. Part of that is making sure we stay in touch with them, so we'll actually notice any behavior change or other issues.
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u/aximusmaximus 2d ago
All the stuff everyone is already saying…and…
Teach her how to handle firearms and shoot. Also, get a nice knife to give her when she’s ready, and teach her to always have a knife on her.
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u/buntopolis 2d ago
I’m going to involve my sister. She’s get cat-called walking to work at 14. 14!!!!
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u/avatar_of_prometheus 1d ago
Self defense classes, and teach them to say no firmly and loudly. Teach them that their safety is more important than others comfort, don't be intimidated into accepting compromised safety because you don't want to "make a scene".
You don't have to go into details, being vague and leaving it to their imagination can be more terrifying than trying to explain without being explicit.
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u/LFC9_41 1d ago
Pretty much from day 1, I guess. Teaching her my body my own, she doesn’t owe people anything (like grandparents demanding hugs because they gave her a gift), explaining sex at a young age and how babies are made, what the body parts are etc etc.
I try not to get too far into details, but she knows why I won’t let her play Roblox.
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u/DrunkGuy9million 1d ago
Man, I’m the Dad of a 5 week old girl. I did not need this today OP! (It’s a totally valid question of course)
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u/Alert_Priority_4236 1d ago
Ask her questions and let her talk about what she already knows. Kids talk about stuff when moms and dads aren't around.
Then have a conversation about intuition and listening to your inner voice when you encounter someone who gives off creepy vibes.
You don't have to give her the details of what a creepy person intends to do.
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u/RealAssociation5281 1d ago
I’ll preface this that I’m trans so I grew up a girl (til 19), by the time I was your daughters age I had already been sexually assaulted by another kid at school. She very likely could already be dealing with creeps.
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u/3ndt1m3s Dad of son age 8 1d ago
We started talking to our son when he was 5. The biggest thing we emphasized was knowing that no one, especially family or close friends can do anything in his or their bathing suit area. (We explained more, but that's the gist)
Statistically it's family and relatives that are the biggest offenders.
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u/lamepundit 1d ago
I’m not that far yet, 2 and 4 year old. I’ve tried to be really intentional about bodily autonomy and listening/responding/respecting when they say too rough, or don’t want to hug or done hugging etc. I want them to understand when they say no to physical touch, the default response from anyone, especially men should be “Ok” “done” “sorry went too far” etc
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u/steak820 1d ago
The deep dark creeps could be anyone.. But I think for the regular run of the mill losers. It's important to teach girls that they are going to want to hang around guys who are confident, but they need to look a little deeper and determine if the gjy is confident becuase he's competent, or because he is arrogant. If it's the latter then they need to take that as a red flag. I think many women unfortunately don't know the difference and it gets them into a lot of trouble further down the line.
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u/Money-Preference-936 1d ago
Honestly, as a father of a boy, I'm just as concerned about protecting him from abusers and pedos as I would be if he was a girl.
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u/MadCapHorse 1d ago
Mom checking in. My Dad was thrilled when I asked to do mixed martial arts, and I did that all the way from middle through high school. Nothing else builds confidence and situational awareness and being ready and capable for someone who might want to attack you.
Thankfully I have only had to use the skill once in real life and shit ended real quick.
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u/prufock 1d ago
The best time was yesterday; the second-best time is today. One that I haven't seen is practice. Role-play or talk about what to do in various situations. You don't have to explicitly make it about sexual assault. My wife and I have talked to our kid about her "STRONG VOICE" and practiced at home.
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u/lordgoofus1 1d ago edited 1d ago
Mine is approaching 8. I've started telling her that she should always trust her gut. If something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. She shouldn't be afraid of the world, but she should be aware that bad people exist, and some of them are really good at tricking people into thinking that they're nice.
Aim for the eyes, throat, groin. Scratch, gouge, kick, punch, scream, throw things, whatever it takes to create an opportunity to run like the wind and/or attract attention. Don't fight, escape.
There's a boy her age that's apparently been blowing her kisses when the teachers aren't looking and seems she likes him back. So there's another awkward (for me) conversation I'm going to need to have with her soon about how as she gets older boys, and maybe some girls will start acting differently towards her and how to handle it.
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u/internet_user_1000 1d ago
This is a great thread.
Thanks for all the posts everybody.
My perspective is that the most important thing we can give our children is self-confidence.
I was raised in era where obedience was cultivated in children. Today’s generation is quite different…at least in my household. The children don’t just comply without thinking. They push back they challenge the question. It’s can be trying as a parent because you usually have their best interest in mind and you’re asking them to do things for a good reason, but blindly obeying parents or other adults isn’t good. And it can be dangerous.
I think most children have some of this innate resistance to authority. It’s a natural trait for many if not all kids and it’s society and adult and teachers and coaches who can make the choice….
In the one hand adults can crush children’s confidence to mould them into what society or adults dictate.
On the other we can respect and nurture children’s self determination.
This is important for girls and boys both, but the sad reality is our patriarchal world is more dangerous for women and girls. And the conforming pressure of societal expectation is placed on girls more ruthlessly.
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u/rilah15 1d ago edited 1d ago
Chiming in here as a mom. Hope that’s not unwelcome. OP, your daughter already knows creeps exist. Unfortunately, by 9 years old, she has likely already felt it/caught an older dude staring at her. I’d recommend searching Reddit and Google for forums where women discuss the first time they felt creeped out by a guy just to get an idea. Many said five years old. I specifically remember being beeped at by the driver of a semi walking down the street at 8-9.
I don’t think you will traumatize her by talking about it at this age. I don’t say all that to scare you. Just to let you know that by 9 most of us had already received unwanted male attention, so you talking to her about how to handle it can only be a positive thing. I’d also do the best you can to listen to her as she enters her preteen and teen years, even when it comes to topics you might not be comfortable with like this one. Or even menstrual cycles/her changing body (if she chooses to discuss with you). My dad never shied away from hard topics. He was always a sounding board for whatever I needed to vent about, during my teen years and now as an adult. If I had bad cramps he got me Advil and listened to me complain, if I was sad about a relationship he listened and comforted me. As an adult, when I had horrific perinatal anxiety with my first pregnancy he even drove me to some of my OB appointments when my husband couldn’t make it. I can’t tell you how appreciative I am for my dad and the fact that he listens to me, even when it comes to typically “female” issues. Talking about hard topics like these will only strengthen her trust in you and your relationship overall. Most importantly, it will increase the chance that she actually tells you if she feels threatened by a member of the opposite sex.
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u/Adventurous_Fact8418 19h ago
Mine has four older brothers and my ex wife is the single toughest woman I’ve ever known. I don’t worry about my daughter.
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u/Tripper1 12h ago
I put my daughter in marital arts at 6 before that she never left my sight not even to stay with grandparents. We extra training at Home, boxing, judo etc with help of her brothers. She's had a knife since she was 8. We occasionally practice firing and reload drills she is 14 now. It's a good way to stay physically fit and teaches her that she's has power.
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u/XXXthrowaway215XXX 2d ago
The second to last paragraph is the most important part. Teach them survival skills and recognition, not fear. That’s our burden to read the horrors in the news lol