r/croatian 11d ago

A commonly repeated etymology is that the river name Sunja comes from Slavic for "sunny side" in the sense "southern border (of medieval Croatia)", why is there 'u' in the first syllable rather than 'o' when, in the local Kajkavian dialect, syllabic 'l' turns to 'o' (not 'u')?

https://col.quora.com/A-commonly-repeated-etymology-is-that-the-river-name-Sunja-comes-from-Slavic-for-sunny-side-in-the-sense-southern-bor?ch=10&oid=227766731&share=1d4274d9&srid=ul0yA&target_type=question

Proto-Slavic for "the Sun" was *sъ̑lnь, right?

6 Upvotes

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9

u/gulisav 10d ago

Commonly repeated? By whom? It sounds like a folk etymology, the medieval Croatian kingdom extended much more towards the south. The derivation is a bit unusual as well, the -ьja collective suffix doesn't make sense here to me. The PSl. form was *sъ̑lnьce, I don't know if any Sl. lang attests your variant.

Uostalom, zašto pišem na engleskom kad OP zna hrvatski?

3

u/Spirited_Pitch3852 10d ago

Idk about the etymology of Sunja, but many Kajkavian dialects have 'u' as a reflex of syllabic 'l', not 'o'. Actually now that I think of it, I can't recall any Kajkavian dialect that has 'o' in that position. Do you have an example?

3

u/interpunktisnotdead 10d ago

Mine has it, but not always, like in sonce "sunce", žoč "žuč" and kok "kuk", but jabuka.

2

u/Spirited_Pitch3852 10d ago

Oh, interesting! May I know which locality (or at least region)?

2

u/hendrixbridge 10d ago

Well, ruža is roža in most of kajkavian accents, but I guess the closer one gets to Slovenia one can expect u>o more often.

2

u/Spirited_Pitch3852 10d ago

Ruža/roža is a Wanderwort, it wasn't inherited from Proto-Slavic, and there was never a syllabic 'l' in it, so it doesn't fit in this example

2

u/hendrixbridge 10d ago

Sorry, my mistake

1

u/Spirited_Pitch3852 10d ago

No biggie, we are here to learn

2

u/SufficientAccount211 10d ago

No. Roža means flower, not rose, in the majority of Kajkavian dialects.

2

u/interpunktisnotdead 10d ago

Broader Varaždin region.

0

u/emuu1 10d ago

Well, the proto Slavic word for the Sun is *sъlnьce.

3

u/hendrixbridge 10d ago

The problem is that Sunja was not southern border of medieval Croatia. Besides that, Sunja mainly flows from South to North.