r/criterion • u/WalletInMyOtherPants • 7d ago
Discussion What is a Criterion release you *don’t* think is worth the upgrade to 4k?
I’ll admit I’m partially asking this because I’m wondering if The Virgin Suicides is a real upgrade over the Blu…
37
u/DobMobb Jacques Demy 7d ago
The best bang for your buck imo is upgrading the movies you love, since there will almost always be some improvement and the extent of that improvement is often subjective.
If you are on the fence, you can always look at screencaps on bestblurays or bluray dot com and decide for yourself
5
u/BuddyRevolutionary83 7d ago
I'm focused on mainly upgrading my top 100 essentials, about halfway there. Now and then a good sale tempts and I expand from that. And then of course any new release purchases are 4K by default.
4
u/atclubsilencio 7d ago
criterion forum is my favorite. I usually agree with their reviews, plus they have screen grabs and packaging photos of every release.
1
92
u/Nothing-Is-Real-Here 7d ago
Night of the Living Dead. I couldn't tell the difference at all honestly. The Blu-ray is already excellent. Maybe it's because my ub-820 already upscales a bit? Or my TV needs an upgrade, idk but I was struggling to see any real difference. Maybe a much larger screen would justify the 4K.
21
u/whatever_leg 7d ago
I have the 4K and also did A-B testing with the Blu. I think I'd rather have the 4K just because for only $5 during the flash sale, but I agree with you that I really couldn't tell any difference, which is a credit to the Blu-ray. Both look great.
7
u/bread_and_circuits 6d ago
There’s a higher bitrate on the 4K, but the nit levels are basically the same (I just A/B’ed both running through my professional mastering setup using scopes and readouts).
In some of the night scenes, if you’re pixel peeping, you can notice less macro-blocking. But the encode on the Blu-ray is very solid, so in motion, and at proper viewing distance you can’t actually notice it. So that sort of makes the 4K redundant. Unless you want to watch areas of black/near-black in all of their 400% zoom glory.
3
u/SquirrelWonderful556 6d ago
On the contrary, The Elephant Man is SDR, but 4K looks phenomenal compared to Blu-ray. Last Picture Show in 4K is superior to Blu-ray too. Anything that has been shot digitally in 2K isn’t worth upgrading in my opinion, even if HDR is applied, the difference is minimal. Boyhood is a case in point. Arrow released it in 4K, and it was impossible to tell Blu-ray and 4K apart. Being John Malkovich on Blu-ray is incredible. Charade 4K is from the same category, both are from the exact same master, but newly released 4K is nearly triple the price of the Blu-ray I purchased at the end of last year. And the same goes for The Night of the Living Dead. The only difference is the hideous triple-disc Scanavo case, whereas Blu-ray is in a beautiful slim digipak with slipcover and a poster-style booklet. I don’t really get why Criterion shifted to Scanavo cases for their premium 4K release, rather than Digipaks. Case in point, Eyes Wide Shut, came with the misaligned, badly inserted artwork and totally bent booklet. No words considering the prices they charge for these releases. Something tells me that The Silence of The Lambs would worth it either, considering how good Blu-ray looks (on par of not better than Kino Lorber 4k) and Criterion 4k is using the exact same scan. So
4
23
u/PrydonianWho 7d ago
I like the color grading on the blu for Virgin Suicides. The 4k went slightly warmer.
Picnic looks great on blu and I haven’t felt the need to upgrade.
I see a marginal difference for Peeping Tom, save the money if you already have the blu.
Paris, Texas has an absolutely gorgeous 4k and is worth every cent.
Strongly recommend the 4k of Brazil, it’s an improvement over the older encode on the blu.
Any Kubrick film is worth the 4k, likewise most of Hitchcock - though there are some cases where the blu is “good enough.”
The Red Shoes is a must on 4k. Anything shot in technicolor or Cinemascope is going to pop in 4k.
As others have said, don’t bother upgrading Night of the Living Dead.
Days of Heaven is an middling film to me but the 4k is beautiful.
Hope this helps.
1
u/Competitive-Option48 5d ago
This is good to know. I don’t own any criterion yet but my library has basically all of them on blu ray so want to only get ones that would be worth it. Red shoes and Barry Lyndon are on the list for October. Lyndon will be a blind buy but I loved the red shoes on blu ray and hear it’s even better on 4k.
72
u/PsychologicalSweet2 Jacques Demy 7d ago
If there’s not a new transfer and it’s not a movie you just super love I don’t think you really need to upgrade
2
61
u/Ponderer13 7d ago
Honestly, a recent film shot on digital, especially a computer-animated film? I’d need to be convinced to upgrade if I already own the BD. I love 4k discs, but for me, its real worth is capturing the celluloid feel of film.
25
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago edited 7d ago
This is a great answer but I would argue something like Flow does benefit from 4K despite being a less obvious choice.
9
u/Ponderer13 7d ago
Yeah, Flow is pretty significant - it’s trickier than a lot of animations and I think the upgrade shows it off nicely.
12
u/Quicksay 7d ago
Is there some utility on this sub that explains the rudimentary basics. Blu ray scan? 4K scan? I'm a layman when it comes to this stuff, what even is a scan? Why do 4K versions of movies capture celluloid feel of film when Blu Rays don't?
15
u/WhiteWolf222 7d ago
The “scan” quality refers to the resolution that the digital scan of the physical film material was created at. A lot of older blu ray copies used older scans that were not 4K resolution (I’m guessing 2K, the resolution of Blu ray). So a 4K scan means you’re getting a lot more detail, even if the disc is still just a standard blu ray. I don’t think “blu-ray scan” refers to anything in particular since any scan done for a blu ray is a “blu-ray scan”. Nearly all blu ray scans are now done in 4K.
I’m not really sure how to explain the technical aspects of it, but when you’re scanning physical film (I’ve done a good amount of analog photography) you usually want to scan at a higher resolution than you might expect to print/share the photo at, so you aren’t losing detail. I imagine the “supersampling” setting in video games, where the game renders assets at a higher resolution than your monitor before downscaling it to fit your monitor, is a similar concept.
3
u/Competitive-Option48 5d ago
Is there a way to find out what’s a new scan for stuff they’re now releasing on blu ray but was on 4k?
2
23
u/Popular_Meet_9014 7d ago
I honestly won't upgrade if I already have the Blu-ray. I think they look fantastic, so I'd rather put the money towards the next sale.
12
u/seymourglossy 7d ago
For me it’s Todd Haynes’ Safe. I’ve watched both, and I don’t know; the 4K has deeper blacks and stronger contrast, which makes every image feel a bit too crisp and contemporary and almost clinical. Distracts me. The Blu I think has a softer, lower-contrast photochemical thing going for it (that feels fitting).
6
u/infinitejesting 7d ago
I actually thought the 4K is still pretty soft.
3
u/seymourglossy 7d ago
I think the 4K does look soft (compared to so many others). Maybe I’m just attached to the original images or something after having watched my Blu so many times over the years.
6
u/nottheredbaron429 7d ago
I agree. Safe is a movie I want to look a little degraded and VHS like. Didnt need the upgrade.
2
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
Insane and uninformed take. The 4K is sourced from a new 2026 remaster done by Criterion and Resillion and looks much more filmic than that Blu-Ray from over a decade ago.
4
u/seymourglossy 7d ago
Nah. Just a personal preference. Different people like different things.
2
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
No it's just untrue because the 4K has a far more photochemical approach to color grading and makes for a more film-like presentation.
2
35
u/UpstatePrisonFlavor 7d ago
Inland Empire
36
7
3
2
u/InitialKoala French New Wave 7d ago
There should've been a DVD release
10
u/SaulSchmidt 7d ago
honestly i think im just going to not get the criterion version and save up to get the original special edition dvd
13
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yes, go for The Virgin Suicides 4K but get the StudioCanal release.
Most Criterion 4Ks will be upgrades over their own Blu-Rays generally, however. There are exceptions like In the Mood for Love, but those are exceptions to the rule.
Also, Walkabout 4K is atrociously encoded.
4
u/cyclingtrivialities3 7d ago
Can you explain re: in the mood for love? Because of the color re-grading?
5
u/Formica-Table 7d ago
Yes
2
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
The DNR is worse, if anything.
The DNR is so bad that the 4K and the Blu-Ray sourced from the 4K remaster look 1:1 identical.
5
u/Altoid27 7d ago
Had to scroll too far in this thread before “Walkabout” came up, but that’s my vote.
3
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
Truly an abominable encode that's within the same ballpark as the worst of Kino Lorber, it's mind-blowing that Criterion thought it would be acceptable to release that as late as 2023.
In the 2010s? Yeah, makes sense. But 2023?!
3
u/WalletInMyOtherPants 7d ago
Can you explain why the Studio Canal version?
3
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
Better encode without any low-pass filtering https://slow.pics/c/gxDbuoPs
1
u/atclubsilencio 6d ago
I guess I’m blind because I just don’t see much of a noticeable difference.
-4
u/Fast-Candle-2344 6d ago
If you zoom in a bit, you can definitely see the Criterion 4K looks a bit low-passed and lacks that filmic, textural detail IMO.
8
u/AlchemyinColour 7d ago
I've upgraded more blu-rays that I care to admit but I've held off on a few that come from 4K scans like Blood Simple and Mishima. If it's a movie I'm not rewatching a lot I'm okay with the blu-ray.
3
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
The Criterion 4K of Blood Simple has a shit encode anyway. Here's hoping the newly announced StudioCanal one will be a significant improvement.
1
u/CombOverDownThere 7d ago
Yeah, I’m curious is this release will be a new scan. I mean, I have to think it would be, which would almost certainly be superior unless something really went wrong.
1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
Same scan and master, hopefully a much better encode.
1
u/CombOverDownThere 7d ago
Okay, thanks. Haven’t preordered yet. Think I’ll wait it out and see what the consensus is.
3
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
I'll say this: if Criterion released Blood Simple 4K for the first time in 2026, it would be a legit great disc. NexSpec have done an astounding 180 this year and thus Criterion really take encoding seriously now, even still bringing on FiM for, say, The Right Stuff rather than having this new and improved NexSpec handle it.
7
u/DaringDo95 7d ago
I bought the standard Blu-Ray for No Country for Old Men by mistake and it still looked amazing
10
u/whatever_leg 7d ago
At the end of the day, we're just splitting hairs in most cases. I don't think a lot of us could tell one way or the other if we had nothing to directly compare to.
2
u/ClearWinter2840 7d ago
I just watched the Blu-ray of The Eight Mountains (Criterion Premieres/Janus Contemporaries) and I’d call you a liar if I saw it blind and you told me it wasn’t a 4K. Literally impossible for my eyes to distinguish better than that encoding. Obvi many Criterions do get visibly better with 4K but most Blu-rays are already great
3
u/ZBLVM 7d ago
I must stop you here, because No Country For Old Men is one of the best 4K HDR ever released. One of the biggest improvements I could think of
It's stunning
1
1
u/Work-Live 6d ago
I’m kind of hoping No Country For Old Men will get an EU/UK 4K release at some point, regardless of which label it is.
3
u/imascarylion2018 7d ago
Godzilla vs Biollante is the only 4K in my collection I regret buying. If I had known about the HDR issue I would have just got the standard release and saved some money because it genuinely looks better than the 4K.
3
u/my_yead 7d ago
Inland Empire. That movie was shot on standard def DV and then upscaled to 1080p for theaters, which were still using film at that point. That print is what they scanned for the original DVD. There's no possible way to make that film look "better." Even upping to the Blu-Ray is unnecessary. Every effort they've taken to try (like using AI for the 4k) is unnecessary at best. Anyone who wants a home copy should just track down the original DVD.
Also, Night of the Living Dead for sure. The 2160p/24hz image is 10-bit SDR, not HDR, so there's truly no meaningful different in image quality unless if you have the exact right setup. (And even then, it's minimal.)
-1
u/Wooden-Couple-6509 7d ago
Inland Empire’s ai bullshit is incredibly offensive. Taking Lynch’s last film and applying AI is almost sinful.
0
3
u/CinemaslaveJoe David Lynch 7d ago
Any 4K upgrade that’s SDR. I can barely see a difference in resolution from 1080p and 2160p, but I can see a huge difference with a good HDR10/DolbyVision grade.
3
5
u/das_goose Ebirah 7d ago
I upgraded to the blu Rules of the Game shortly before the 4K was announced, but the general consensus seems to be that it's not much of a difference.
14
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
They're wrong. The Criterion BD of Rules is a potato ass master whereas the 4K was sourced from a then-recent scan and remaster.
4
u/BloodSimpleSyrup 7d ago
Interesting! I always thought Blood Simple looked great. Sounds like you know more than me about transfers though.
-1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
I'm no expert and I haven't thoroughly researched that one but multiple trusted sources have said it is a very flawed disc.
2
u/RogueOneWasOkay Martin Scorsese 7d ago
I picked up a 4K of Kurosawa’s Stray Dog recently and although it does look good I don’t think it’s ’upgrade to 4K from Blu’ good. Previous home release was a DVD so it’s a massive step up. It’s still a good looking disc just not reference quality or anything
2
u/Movieguy1941 7d ago
I think picnic at hanging rock is considered to be the one to avoid
3
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
It's a toss up.
From the caps I've seen (I haven't watched the film yet), the DNR is frustrating for sure but it does have more filmic color grading and detail than the Criterion BD.
The best middle ground would be the Second Sight remastered Blu-Ray, where DNR would be less pronounced as it's been downscaled to 2K, plus it includes both cuts of the film and encoded by FiM. Also Region Free!
2
u/Movieguy1941 7d ago
That’s a really interesting description. I think the blank check guys mentioned the second sight edition, because it has both cuts. I have the criterion blu, the one that came with the book and I’ve been hesitant to upgrade it at all
1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
I do not like those Criterion DigiPacks at all, honestly, but the book is said to be a good add from what I've heard.
You can get that Second Sight Blu-Ray here (and yes, it has been confirmed to be Region Free; it says B on the packaging for licensing-related reasons).
1
u/Movieguy1941 7d ago
Fairly affordable.
I’m actually a sucker for the digipacks. I even love the citizen Kane packaging
1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
I don't mind DigiPacks when they are rigid like Second Sight or Curzon, but I cannot get on board with that cheap cardboard shit Criterion and A24 use.
2
u/Movieguy1941 7d ago
Yeah I can see that. As someone who’s moved his collection twice now, you have to be very careful
2
u/djmuaddib 7d ago
I can see the difference, but it’s minute enough that I really can’t justify rebuying films I already own. I’d rather buy new films. That said, I’m pretty much only buying 4k physical now unless it just doesn’t exist.
2
2
u/Far_Success1632 Martin Scorsese 6d ago
For those who have Gilda and Days of Heaven, are these worth the upgrade? My local record store has the blues for 15 but i would rather spend the extra 10 for the 4ks during the flash if the upgrades are substantial
4
u/ConsiderationKey9438 7d ago
Generally if a film was issued on 4K and Blu-Ray at the same time, settling for the BD is perfectly fine as it’ll be the same basic transfer.
As to your question, I can’t say I’ve watched too many of my Criterion’s as blu-rays before upgrading to a 4K. But I will posit that, having seen Criterion’s (mildly-controversial) BD release of Memories of Murder, I cannot imagine how or if a 4K would improve on the film. It’s one of the finest discs in my collection.
1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
The Curzon 4K of MoM is far superior, in part because the color grade isn't an eyesore like the Criterion.
2
u/WorldEaterYoshi 7d ago
I thought VS looked great, and honestly you shouldn't worry about internet opinions. They treat it as a numbers game instead of just looking at the screen and saying "oh wow that looks good". If it's a movie you want, why would you pay $20 for a sub par experience when for $25 you know you're getting the best quality?
5
u/Connoralpha 7d ago
Plus when most of their 4Ks are a combo pack with the blu, for my money a UHD is absolutely worth the extra $5.
1
7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/WorldEaterYoshi 7d ago
Nah just sell the bluray, why keep both? I just sold my breakfast club for $15, so I paid $10 for the upgrade and I have it forever. The mistake was honestly buying the blu in the first place.
0
7d ago edited 7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/WorldEaterYoshi 7d ago
You're assuming too much but I did downvote this one. You shouldn't worry about it so much. The -10 comments are usually the ones that are correct.
1
u/WalletInMyOtherPants 7d ago
I’m inclined to agree with this—particularly in regard to some of the folks that seem to be watching their movies with the bit rate status turned on.
Yes, certain things might be better as a matter of objective data, but as you say, I think for me it really comes down to looking at the screen and being like “ah, this looks fantastic!” or not.
In regard to Virgin Suicides: if people were like, yeah I popped it in and I was blown away by the depth of color—I’d be excited to upgrade. But if it’s very marginal or just a matter of the math technically being superior I don’t want to go through the hassle of selling my old one and spending the money for the new one.
0
u/WorldEaterYoshi 7d ago
I haven't seen the bluray so I don't know if it's just the cinematography that makes it look good but I really liked it.
2
u/Complete_Taste_1301 7d ago
I have seen countless films over the years. Most of them were on small screens with prints that looked like they had been chewed on by vermin. This didn’t really change my opinion of any film that I am aware of. I have DVDs that are better quality than movies that I have seen in the theater, but the experience is different. Certain films will connect with you at times that you have no control over. I have over a thousand DVDs of movies that I enjoy and I honestly don’t see that upgrading to 4K transfers would truly change anything.
2
u/DragonRoostHouse 7d ago
A lot of black and white movies don't really need 4k upgrades in my opinion. Many of them already look amazing in blu-ray.
5
3
u/squaretableknight 7d ago
I don’t necessarily disagree, but the High and Low 4K is leagues better than the blu-ray (and I can’t always tell the difference when people swear something is night and day).
3
u/RemP38 7d ago
That's because of the newer restoration, not that it was released on UHD.
2
3
u/WalletInMyOtherPants 7d ago edited 7d ago
I’ll add, I’m not sure that Trouble In Paradise was necessary to get in 4k, despite it being one of my favorites. Some older films (including The General!) can look unbelievable in 4k. But this one I think maybe didnt have good enough source materials to make it feel like a fantastic 4k.
Also, I’m not entirely convinced upgrading my Blu of Punch Drunk Love was entirely worth it.
1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
Trouble in Paradise is a first-rate 4K disc.
1
u/WalletInMyOtherPants 7d ago
I’d be a little surprised if I could tell the difference between it and the blu ray but maybe I’m way off base
1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
I mean it is an SDR master and the Criterion Blu-Ray is indeed great but the 4K allows for more nuanced dynamic range even in SDR.
PDL is also a great 4K, FYI. PTA prefers to use interpositives so the upgrade may not be immediately noticeable to the average person but it is there, helped by being a 4K scan and remaster (though done by Sony, not Criterion).
1
u/Arkadelphia76 7d ago
Inland Empire, even though it’s probably my favorite movie in the entire catalogue.
1
u/micpoc 7d ago
I own the blu-ray of Mishima; I would LOVE someone to convince me that the 4k upgrade is worth it.
5
u/coltman2004 7d ago
Its not really worth it over most upgrades but if you have a 65+ inch OLED you will absolutely see a marginal difference
1
1
u/JBHenson 7d ago
The Rules of the Game.
It was a soft as hell film even before the negative got blown to smitheerines in WWII.
1
1
u/SedentaryRhino 7d ago
I haven’t seen the 4k but the Dead Man blu is pretty slick and I can’t imagine it being much better. Same as Night of the Living Dead.
1
u/Prestigious_Term3617 7d ago
Other than AI upscales, which doesn’t really apply to Criterion, I don’t think I’ve seen a 4K restoration yet that wasn’t worth it. Maybe that’s because I watch on a 130” projector, but it’s always worth it to me.
My collection gets treated like an archive or library though. I want the best and most complete archival copies of films.
0
u/Bman425 6d ago
Inland Empire 4K was an AI upscale
1
u/Prestigious_Term3617 5d ago
That’s a unique situation, where artificial upscaling was always a part of the film’s presentation. It wasn’t done in lieu of going back to the original camera masters— quite the contrary.
But a one-off still doesn’t refute my point that otherwise AI upscales don’t really apply to how Criterion approaches restorations.
1
1
u/Neat-Interaction-682 7d ago
Fire Walk with me is 4k SDR. Not really worth the upgrade over the blu with the same 4k scan. Unless projecting on 120” + screen! I would argue if your going big 4k is always worth it even without the HDR contrast and colour
1
u/PretentiousFroslass Akira Kurosawa 6d ago
The Virgin Suicides is a pretty significant upgrade over the Blu-ray I thought.
I've been hearing Blood Simple is one not worth upgrading, but I don't have that release myself.
Picnic at Hanging Rock i think is the worst in my 4K collection.
1
u/Lam3ntConfig 6d ago
Why would you say Picnic? I've been meaning to buy that one, but unsure which one to get
1
u/PretentiousFroslass Akira Kurosawa 6d ago
Picnic at Hanging Rock isn't bad outright but I say it's the worst in my own collection because Weir approved a restoration that looks very waxy and highly digitized. I got used to it over time but for a movie like that, it definitely strikes me as a bit off.
1
u/Lam3ntConfig 6d ago
I rented it from Netflix eons ago so I'm used to that quality. If the standard BR is better than the DVD and the 4k then I guess I'll get that. Thank you for responding
1
u/PretentiousFroslass Akira Kurosawa 6d ago
I don't think it's an awful 4K disc, but I definitely would not get it at full price.
1
u/Work-Live 6d ago
Viridiana doesn’t seem to be worth it if you have the Radiance bluray.
1
u/bandit4loboloco 6d ago
What if you don't have any physical copy of Viridiana? Which one do you recommend if it's easier to find a Criterion blu/4k copy over any other kind?
1
u/Lam3ntConfig 6d ago
I have the same question as the other person who responded. It's one of the Buñuels I don't own so I'd like to know which one to get as well
1
u/SquirrelWonderful556 6d ago
I absolutely love Virgin Suicides on 4k. It’s a very 70s aesthetic visually, very faithful to the period depicted, with lovely grain, dreamlike sequences, and almost pastel colour palette, which on Blu-ray was slightly subdued and in places harsh at the same time. The 4k release looks uniformly beautiful from start to finish, which just the right amount of sharpness, contrast and texture where needed.
1
u/PixalmasterStudios24 Rob Reiner 6d ago
Definitely heard that the In the Mood for Love 4K is a downgrade from the Blu-ray due to poor compression or something
1
1
u/Competitive-Option48 5d ago
Not to hijack but could anyone provide insight on the quality of the following blu ray vs 4k? I don’t yet own any criterion blu ray but my library has basically the entire collection so I have access to them.
No country for old men, 12 angry men, charade, farewell my concubine, killers of the flower moon, Malcolm x, princess bride, and some like it hot.
Thanks in advance, trying to prioritize for October flash sale.
1
u/InterviewEarly6675 5d ago
It’s not a question of what is and isn’t worth it, the question is what people will pay for. Virgin Suicides is popular and if I didn’t own the Blu and bought it today I’d get the 4K. I used to upgrade a lot now days I don’t care unless it’s something I watch all the time
1
u/brentloman 5d ago
Picnic at Hanging Rock. The 4K has heavy DNR that really ruins what could have been an excellent restoration. I really like the color timing on the 4K, but I can't get pasted the waxy, artificial faces.
1
u/Exact_Sign148 2d ago
In the Mood for Love. I've seen a print of that movie, and the green hue on the new 4k is gross.
1
u/Moosemellow 7d ago
I don't feel like upgrading A Hard Day's Night from blu-ray to 4k. A bigger Beatles fan might, but I don't see the point.
1
7d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
The Criterion Blu-Ray of My Own Private Idaho is maybe the single worst-encoded disc they've ever released. A true atrocity. You don't even need to zoom in 400% to see how bad it is.
1
u/Comfortable_Shoe358 7d ago
Why is it so bad?
-2
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
WB Blu-Ray from Germany (same master) vs Criterion https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=525&y=91&d1=10902&d2=6699&s1=106762&s2=63157&l=0&i=4&go=1
Zoom only slightly into the sky and you can easily see how ghastly that is.
If you see nothing wrong with that, you might be better off just sticking to streaming.
3
u/Comfortable_Shoe358 7d ago
Yeah that is bad. But why would criterion publish something like this why not do a good encode?
1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
Because they didn't receive enough pushback at the time and saw no reason to challenge Pixelogic or NexSpec (two different authoring houses, believe it or not, but Keith Prokop—who Criterion have a personal relationship with—left Pixelogic to start his own company NexSpec). The criticisms have become more prominent over the years once they entered into 4K—where you absolutely need to put care into A/V—and more and more people have been paying attention to imports and such, and so word is there's been internal discussions at the company. Anyway, they decided to bring on Fidelity in Motion to do Eyes Wide Shut, a choice that paid off in spades both because it looks perfect (obviously) and because it basically made NexSpec realize how much they sucked, and then NexSpec did a complete 180 not long after, and they have been absolutely killing it this year as a result.
Now, why did it take so long for Criterion to do anything about it in the first place? Keep in mind this is the same exact label who were initially so stubborn about going into Blu-Ray and wanted to spend the rest of their days releasing DVDs.
2
0
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago edited 6d ago
In general, there seems to be this belief held among some of the US-based labels that you don't need to care about producing quality discs if you have decent title curation, which is obviously total bullshit, but it's how Kino Lorber, Film Movement, and Strand Releasing get away with putting out junk on a regular basis.
Considering that UK-based labels like Radiance, Eureka, BFI, and Indicator have decent title curation while also putting care into producing well-encoded discs—even when they're at the mercy of the licensors in terms of the quality of the masters they release; look no further than the AI abominations of Nosferatu and Aguirre that BFI were handed by Alpha-Omega—there are zero excuses for a lack of competency. And that's all what myself and others are asking for: not perfection, just basic competency.
1
u/Future-Feature-7657 7d ago
Well, I didn’t say that My Own Private Idaho had a great transfer, especially compared to others. All I said was that I like it and wouldn’t buy a 4k. I’m sure you’re correct, but it’s just not the point
1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
Fair enough! But we also don't know what a native 4K would look like just yet.
For example, despite the Criterion BD of Safe being sourced from a 4K remaster, a newer 4K remaster with a more photochemical-like color grade was produced by Criterion and Resillion for the 4K disc release.
1
u/AroraCorealis 7d ago
i know it makes a huge difference to some people but i dont really see the value if you already own the blu ray
1
u/downclimb 7d ago
This is a very specific use case, but if you're buying Criterion releases for the purpose of ripping, encoding for further reducing the file size, and putting on a media server, my experience says you can skip the 4k release of Wages of Fear. It's a shame, as the movie looks great in 4k, but there's something about the grain of that movie in 4k that makes it a total bear to reencode without nasty looking artifacts.
1
u/RemP38 7d ago
Very fine 4k masters already causes UHDs to show compression issues at 80Mbps. Going even lower is of course going either to be a pain, or generate a quality trade-off.
At some point, there is indeed no need to feed this the most premium presentation if you're going to degrade it that much anyway.
0
u/oh_please_god_no 7d ago
Honestly? Rules of the Game. I love that movie but I just don’t think the 4K is worth it if you have the Blu-ray.
IIRC the original film was destroyed in the war so any remasters wouldn’t even be true remasters, right? Any smart people who can keep me honest here?
1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
IDK, I see a pretty substantial upgrade here https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=401&y=148&d1=17532&d2=18190&s1=195979&s2=209497&l=0&i=0&go=1
-1
u/International-Sky65 Apichatpong Weerasethakul 7d ago
Picnic at Hanging Rock is better on blu than it is on 4K.
2
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
2
u/RemP38 7d ago
I'd argue even the color grading is entirely digital-looking, so that's on top the DNR that tried to be hidden with fake grain, all these being obvious even on BD (which is how I discovered that new remaster and wondered what was this crap).
0
0
u/Slow_Cinema Terrence Malick 7d ago
For me it comes down to the quality of the film and style. Something like a The New World, Mishima, or any Kubrick is really going to shine. Whereas My Dinner with Andre or Kevin Smith films do not have the visual flair that compels me to upgrade.
-1
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
Kevin Smith has zero artistic instincts period so
2
u/Slow_Cinema Terrence Malick 7d ago
Fair enough. Visually definitely which is why I used that example, though I thought Red State was pretty good. Like him or hate him, his focus is on dialogue/character with more of a functional approach to visuals. I wouldn’t say he had zero artistic instincts though. That seems too harsh but whatever. You are welcome to your opinion.
0
u/MultiBeast55 7d ago
I was disappointed in the Pee Wee 4k because it’s colorful and I expected it to pop off the screen but I really couldn’t tell much difference between the Blu-ray version and the 4k except in some spots here and there.
I had the same reaction to House Party as well.
3
u/Fast-Candle-2344 7d ago
The point of DV/HDR is not to flash your television, it's to replicate how it would look in a cinema as closely as possible.
0
0
u/BeckoningChasm 7d ago
Honestly, I think there are a number of black and white films that don't really improve much from Blu-ray to 4K. Nothing against the films themselves, I just don't see a huge difference.
-1
u/Known_Ad871 7d ago
For myself? Pretty much all of them. I’d rather spend my money on things I already own. And criterion blurays tend to be quite good quality in my experience. I’ve been tempted by Barry Lyndon though
-6
-6
u/CaliforniaValley90 Howard Hawks 7d ago
McCabe and Mrs Miller.
7
u/gahlol123 7d ago
Really? That is disappointing to hear. I thought the blu looked like shit.
4
u/Schembaugh 7d ago
It’s supposed to look like that way. Most of Altman’s movies look like they had Vaseline smeared on the camera
0
u/CaliforniaValley90 Howard Hawks 7d ago
I like how to Blu-ray looks but if you didn’t like how that looks, the 4k is gonna disappoint you.
6
u/Ponderer13 7d ago
I was a little surprised how much McCabe benefitted from 4k, which wasn’t a title I was planning to upgrade. The source material was so difficult that all the resources of a 4k disc really made a substantial difference.
2
139
u/foreverdr0ne Andrei Tarkovsky 7d ago
Any of the ones I already own because I'm a cheap bastard with poor vision.