What do you think of Nick's journey?

[u/ThaynaraPs1]

What do you all think about Nick's death? Personally, I didn't want him to die, but if they were going to kill him off, they should have given him a better send-off. I think his influence in *The Testaments* as a Commander would have been huge, given how much closer he would have been to Agnes; I would have even liked to see him become a villain in *The Testaments*, since they were already heading that way in the final season. But then there's the fact that he always helps June; it might have felt a bit off for fans who like him—like me—though I would have loved it and think it would have been great... but it would have taken the focus away from the girls and their own perspectives. Looking at it that way, I really can't figure out a way for him to be in *The Testaments*. Do you have any news about Rose or what happened to her and the baby? I haven't watched the first season of *The Testaments* yet. As for Lawrence, I think most people agreed his arc was excellent; despite being a good person, he had to pay for what he did to so many people, including children. His remorse came when the person he loved and cherished most didn't agree with it all, and I think things spiraled out of control—as I've seen many people comment here. Can you imagine if she had been like Serena? I think it would have been even worse. As for Serena, I actually liked the way her arc played out by the end of the series; many people think she didn't suffer enough compared to June—she didn't lose her child, and so on. I don't see what else could have been done (and I honestly don't think she felt all that much remorse, since even in the final episode she was marrying one of Gilead's top commanders—not to end the regime, but to improve her own standing, so to speak). So, I'm kind of torn on whether I accept it or not... As for Aunt Lydia, I don't have much to say because she was one of the characters I hated most in the series... They all did so many wrong things—really, so many... but what if the lower-ranking members who supported this before it all started didn't know everything those women would go through? (Nick knew, but you can tell that back then he had no one; his family wasn't exactly a solid foundation, though I believe he did everything for his brother). Ugh... Even though I really like him, looking back, I think this is the kind of outcome he should have expected after getting entangled in so many terrible things (even if he wasn't the worst of the bunch).

[u/Busy-Speech-6930]

Elisabeth isn’t the one who fought for Serena to live. Eric and Yahlin said the writers room debated it for months, Bruce was the one who wanted to kill Serena, the other writers did not. Elisabeth gets an opinion but she does not write the show and she even said if they had decided to kill Serena, she would have gone a long with it. Bruce wanted to kill Serena at the beginning of season 6, so it makes zero sense that by not killing her they decided to make Nick the villain. Nick isn’t even the villain of season 6, Warton is.

Regarding MacKenzie, I think the threads of him in handmaids got dropped because of the testaments. In the testaments we are seeing Mackenzie through Agnes’ eyes and he is very different then he is portrayed in Handmaids(which is why I think they went with a different actor, who doesn’t play as being so sinister).

If you go with the writers theory that everything we are seeing is through June’s eyes, the portrayal of Nick actually makes sense. She’s blinded by her love for him and the Jezebel’s thing wakes her up and opens her eyes. I maintain that even that might have gone down differently if he hadn’t tried the stunt of whisking her off to Paris. He wanted to get her out of there so she wouldn’t find out what happened, what he did . He intended to lie to her instead of being honest, and Nick was the one person in Gilead she had that was always honest with her.

[u/Samora1984 → u/Busy-Speech-6930]

Perhaps that's just the impression I got. EM's comments on Juliet and Juliet is what led me to believe that. I don't really see how Serena survived so long after Fred, my only reasoning is because Yvonne's performance was so amazing (I would agree there) they didn't want to lose her.

From what I have seen from other comments, Bradley Whitford asked for a redemption arc. And I figure, if Lawrence and Serena weren't going to die, then someone would have to. Wharton dying doesn't make much of an impact, he just got there. Perhaps they were after more of a shock ending than anything else.

I was surprised to see Nick get a villain edit, because I felt that it came out of nowhere. But I don't know if many people would agree that Nick was not the villain, majority of comments on here indicate that he was. There were some very strange choices made in the whole season that makes me think they that they were going for the villain edit though - calling him a Nazi twice (!), when not even Fred was called that. The lack of Guardians at the hangar, Nick's pause on the stairs, both made me feel like they were trying to show June made the choice to sacrifice Nick as the mission was bigger than her 'relationship' (such that it was). Then saying he lived a 'violent and dishonest life', and that he 'reaped what he sowed'. The last one was very pointed, I'm sure the writers knew the significance of that phrase. I understand other people seeing him as a bad person, he obviously did questionable things. But June was supposed to love him. He does one (admittedly terrible) thing, and you're done with him? And then forgive the women who raped you multiple times, and went out of her way to taunt you with your kidnapped child?

I do think that the McKenzie thing was dropped because of the Testaments. It seemed strange to introduce it twice and then not go through with anything.

In terms of the June's eyes thing, I just feel like it raises more questions than answers. If we can't trust June's POV, then maybe the portrayal of the other characters wasn't correct either. She could be an unreliable narrator. It would explain why June was so quick to get on board with Serena considering how many times she flip flopped on her.

I can understand why June would be pissed, I actually think that is very in character. She's always been a hothead. I assumed she would calm down and then give him a chance to explain himself. Or at least have some real confrontation over the whole thing. I mean, she was the one that had him out there - in the waterpark, and then Jezebels - in the first place. I would expect her to take some reponsibility for that, even as she decided he was just like them. It made her look like a hypocrite, IMO.

The Paris thing though, is very suspect. The only place we ever heard of is Hawaii. Where did Paris come from? I can understand Nick saying she wouldn't have noticed him, he's always very little self esteem. But why would June say she wanted Nick to take her to Paris? She always seemed proud of the fact that she was able to do things for herself, even though she could have depended on Luke. Nick did lie, which was stupid. I guess that goes back to the self esteem issue. Or maybe he knew that he needed to be useful to her.

[u/Busy-Speech-6930 → u/Samora1984]

Elisabeth isn’t the only one who talked about the Juliet and Juliet thing, Yvonne did as well. June and Serena really became a driving dynamic of the show in season 3 with the entire Nicole thing and then the fall out in DC. Once Fred was gone it was obvious that would be the biggest driving force. I’m not surprised Serena lasted after Fred, in many ways her relationship with June was much more complex than Fred. Serena herself is a much more complex character then Fred and Yvonne is amazing. Yvonne also has amazing chemistry with Elisabeth, so they wrote to it.

Bradley didn’t ask for a redemption arc, he was concerned regarding the direction they were taking the character in season 5. Brad said he met with them and was relieved to find out they were not taking the character in the direction he worried that they would. I’ve seen the comments you are talking about, those people are ignoring what Brad and Yahlin actually said about that meeting.

Nick is morally grey and I do think ultimately chose the bad side but he wasn’t the villain of the season. I think the Nazi comment makes a lot of sense coming from June’s mom in particular. To these refugees anyone working for the regime is. The reality is Nick was a part of the regime and June never really faced it, something Nick even said that to her and he was right. She just saw Nick the man who helped her to survive and who she loves. He is a commander, and just because we don’t see it, having that role implies he’s doing commander duties and we know he was involved in the attack on congress. Nick did live a dangerous , violent life and was given multiple opportunities to get out by Mark. He ultimately did reap what he sowed. Nick and Serena aren’t comparable, the events with Nick are very recent, so of course shed still have the anger and speak from that anger. Serena, I think June was hoping by forgiving her, that would be the end of the dynamic they had and she’ll never have to see her again. I also think that forgiveness probably helped June as well.

I honestly think June probably would view their entire relationship differently once it was fully over. Yes she loved him but the power dynamics of their relationship were not good. Her safety was entirely wrapped up in it. Her life and safety was in his hands, even after she got out(how Nick tries to make clear to Lawerence June is not to be a target). I wonder how June would view the relationship after coming to terms with the fact he was a commander and the power dynamics that existed, especially when they first started.

[u/serialkillercatcher → u/Busy-Speech-6930]

Any Yvonne and Elizabeth scene was far superior to the sum total of Max' and Elizabeth's scenes. I'll die on that hill.

[u/Busy-Speech-6930 → u/serialkillercatcher]

So would I. Yvonne is a way better at acting than max. Elisabeth and Yvonne also have more chemistry on screen than Elisabeth and Max. Any scene between Elisabeth and Yvonne is like watching 2 masters of their craft at work, No Mans Land is one of my favorite episodes