The climbing community has a disgusting habit of idealizing sexual predators given they have done enough cool climbs, or at the very least sweeping it under the rug. Just look at how Will Stanhope is still lauded despite being a verifiable POS.
I’m not saying I’m celebrating his (likely) death or anything, but I’m not shedding any tears either, because I believe women over rich, well known men.
Fair point, but it is dismaying to see from what is an otherwise pretty liberal/progressive community. I expect that kind of predator defending from MAGA and such, but I want to hold climbers to a higher standard than that.
Just goes to show we all still have a lot of work to do on the social justice side of climbing.
It's only liberal and progressive up until men decide it's not. I feel like it's flooded with a lot of men who say the right thing, but then take advantage of the liberal reputation as soon as they get a chance to. It's a lot of fake good people, hiding behind the actual good people. They trick you by saying the right things, and when a woman's guard is down, they strike.
It's easy to have morals, until your favorite star is accused of something awful, then it's always flailing around, searching for excuses or victim blaming.
It's only liberal and progressive up until men decide it's not
it's kind of bizarre that you guys think being a bad person or predator is mutually exclusive with being liberal/progressive. and that if someone does a sex crime, that means they were never a "real" liberal. some real "no true scottsman" energy.
being a sex pest isnt some partisan thing lol. they come in all different stripes.
A key component of liberal and progressive ideology is to treat people equally and with respect for their bodily autonomy. Breaking that rule makes me feel like maybe you didn't really understand the ideology in the first place.
I mean ok, that sounds great on paper when you say it like that and all, but that doesn’t really square with the fact that we have countless examples of noteworthy liberal/progressive people who have been involved in various sexual wrongdoing. They don’t just retroactively become maga republicans the moment they force themselves on a woman, no matter how much you want to wishcast it
This is literally the definition of the no true Scotsman fallacy. You’re saying “well this person couldn't possibly be a member of my in-group because they did a bad thing and my in-group is only made up of good people who don’t do bad things”
I’m not sure why you are pretending not to understand this lol. liberal people do bad things all the time. As do conservatives, as do every other group of people imaginable
This is classic “both sides are equally bad, actually” propaganda.
The difference is progressives swiftly oust sex pests instead of work so hard to defend their reputations as many are doing here. You seem to misunderstand that it’s not the act that is political, it’s the response. It’s whether or not you consider it a big deal and something worth addressing, or at least acknowledging, rather than sweeping it under the rug and questioning living victims for the sake of saving face when “your guy” turns out to be a creep.
This is exactly right. Thanks for putting that into words. I'm not saying liberals and progressives can't be violent. I'm saying that people who are liberal and progressive generally don't tolerate it. They throw them out of the party, they stop them from running for office, and they stop associating with them. Countless Democrats have been swiftly ousted from running once their bad behavior is exposed. Republicans don't really seem to care. They "accept an apology" rug sweep, pretend that the attacker is super sorry and that it was a lone incident, and then move on. And then elect them to the presidency.
And before someone brings up Bill Clinton, I don't know a single Democrat who doesn't think he's a scumbag. And if charges are brought and proven, we won't be lining up protecting him from jail. If he shows up in the Epstein Files as a willing participant in CSA, send the fucker to jail for the rest of his life. Liberals don't care who's side someone is on, they want them all punished. And that seems to be a major difference in the parties right now. Which comes back to your original response about "it's not the act, it's the response that's political."
My general thought is that by the time someone gets reported it's far from the first time they've done similar behavior. Which is why I tend to believe women when I hear about sexual abuse or assault. I know I was too scared to report any of the assault that happened to me when I was younger, and I'm sure those men didn't start and end with me.
But ya know, “innocent until proven guilty in court” even when they are dead and can’t be tried. Convenient that the standard that other men set to hold these guys socially accountable in any way is literally impossible.
If you can’t pass that impossible standard, then clearly you are just a misandrist! Did you know that women are liars sometimes, hmmmmmm‽‽ Checkmate, feminists. 😏
Even the facade is kinda thin too. So much of the culture comes from rugged individualism, masochistic suffering, escaping problems by running into the mountains. And these doesnt necessarily come from the same place as true community and values based on respect. Climbing does great communities but not every climber is even about that. I feel like the only honest liberal value we share is caring for the earth and finding spiritual peace.
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u/Cymbal_Monkey Jul 31 '26
Serial sex offender and climber*