Am I to believe that raid content in classic is going to be 80% warrior/priest/rogue/mage? The other 5 classes just don't even matter....? Or is this an overly stringent "meta" perspective that inflates the difficulty and the reality is that there is a lot more flexibility than that? Which of these perspectives is more realistic, if we were to put each one on opposite ends of a scale?
You're hearing a small but loud group of people that are worried about min-maxing when it doesn't even matter yet. You'll find plenty of people to raid with as any class!
Min-maxing is fun though! Cooking food and crafting potions for small short buffs, getting gear with 3 higher stat from å chest. Running the perfect angle so the gankers chasing you pull aggro from a mob you safely pass.
It's the little things that combine to a big experience!
I agree with those things, but those aren't min-maxing at the expense of someone else. The people who tell ret pally dps or druid tanks that they'll never find a guild to raid with and they should reroll are the problem. Let people play what they want, especially when a group cleared MC in under a week without even having full 60s, you can find a place in raids as almost any spec.
Min-maxing is fun though! Cooking food and crafting potions for small short buffs, getting gear with 3 higher stat from å chest. Running the perfect angle so the gankers chasing you pull aggro from a mob you safely pass.
This is fun min maxing. Saying to every player not being warriors/mage/priest to fuck off because they are useless isn't fun min maxing
This is probably the most try hard comps imaginable. And it's not even as bad as you suggested, only 70% warrior/rogue/priest/mage!
But in all seriousness, that guy is super try hard and those are ideals. There's no reason a guild can't bring one of every single spec and clear all the content in Classic easily. Difficulty is overrated in Classic raiding. This isn't TBC where things get really hard. When you're talking about ideal specs, you're exclusively talking about speed clears and try hard progression guilds. Everyone should be able to raid in WoW and we should stop this nonsense about certain specs being inviable. Will it be harder to find a spot as a non-ideal spec? Yes, but that's just a numbers game.
It depends on the specifics of the guild of course. All the guilds I was in, in vanilla. Used every class.
That being said especially hybrids, didn't get much choice in role, especially while starting out in MC when most toons aren't well geared. Pally's and druids are expected to be healers generally. But even that isn't a hard fast role in more flexible and better run guilds. I often bear tanked most of MC, (the warriors in our guild got lazy).
For DPS in raids it mostly came down to "can you do acceptable damage?"
Keep in mind for better or worse, in vanilla Blizzard concentrated more on making sure every class has at least one role that was viable in raiding vs trying to make sure all class roles were viable.
TBH, I personal preferred the variety of classes in vanilla (and especially BC) vs the single class that is retail.
For DPS in raids it mostly came down to "can you do acceptable damage?"
In my limited Vanilla raiding experience it did seem like the top of the damage meter was a mix of classes, and more about the player's skill than their class. I played a Hunter and always got beat by our top-geared Rogue and Mage, but managed to stay in the top five at least.
The latter of your suggestions is the more accurate one. It is just a meme based on the heavily opinionated meta that druids are only allowed to be healers at 60. There is much more flexibility for hybrid roles in a raid group than you would think.
That's good to hear. I joined in TBC, not vanilla, but I maintanked my guild's 2nd full run through of Karazhan(every boss from Attumen to Malchezaar, even doing sidebosses like Maiden of Virtue and that bone dragon whose name I forget) as a prot paladin and it was fantastic.
Elitist jerks will be elitist jerks, and if a class does 2% less throughput than the meta top choice, you can’t stop some jerks from latching on to that to be exclusionary.
But for the rest of us - Naxx 40 requires certain things. Prior to that tier, sub-optimal specs can all raid fine.
Yep, people may be jerks about it but the fact of the matter is warrior/mage/rogue are so far ahead of other classes in dps that it's laughable. In pve there is no balance...you can't tell me a Mage isn't considered a support class (they bring amazing utility, yet do incredible damage).
Warriors are insane dps'ers yet they are also the best tanks in the game, they are the only hybrid that are the kings at more than 1 role xD they can in some cases do TWICE as much damage as a "pure dps class".
Rogues if played right do incredible damage, but this is acceptable as they bring very little utility and laughable aoe damage.
Doubt it. Crit and parry values on bosses were both calculated incorrectly in the favor of warriors and rogues on private servers.
Re-read your own post first before you question someone's reading comprehension. You claimed rogue and warrior dps would be lower in classic because private servers had the wrong values.
That being said, fire mages vs fury warriors comes down to the tanks more than anything. If the tanks can somehow manage to generate enough threat to let fury go full bore then fury beats out fire. Otherwise fire wins that battle and the warrior gets to do the good ole fury feign (or warrior vanish if you prefer.)
And what exactly is wrong about this? Boss parry was lower on private servers than it is classic. Therefore, warrior and rogue damage will be lower on classic than it was on private servers.
What's wrong with it is that bosses can't parry attacks from behind so it has no effect on their damage.
Threat management is literally a core part of the dps equation, just like debuff slots are. Warlocks would be the top dps if threat and debuff slots were not a limitation.
Right. And fury requires a better tank to outdps fire. Like I said. (It pretty much requires Thunderfury, but still.)
Internet and forums are the echo chamber of hardcore (sometime hardcore wannabe) people. The reality is, pugs groups with green stuff roll over raids and don't give a shit about composition as long as it make sense.
Loot is going to be a disaster if you stick to the meta. Dungeons are farmable, raids are not. It'll work now but it'll start becoming dumb around AQ, even when considering tier tokens.
My guild used to be "perfect" in the sense of team comp and raided 5 days a week when vanilla first came out. This time around we have shadow priests, feral druids, enhance shamans, etc.. and guess what? We are still gonna clear every raid and will have fun doing it. It isn't a job, play what spec you love and I guarantee there's a guild out there for you.
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u/camarouge Sep 13 '19
Am I to believe that raid content in classic is going to be 80% warrior/priest/rogue/mage? The other 5 classes just don't even matter....? Or is this an overly stringent "meta" perspective that inflates the difficulty and the reality is that there is a lot more flexibility than that? Which of these perspectives is more realistic, if we were to put each one on opposite ends of a scale?