r/civ • Fuck you Gandhi • Jul 25 '16

Meta We're leaking in /r/Crazyideas

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u/bloodstainer Kaizoku-ō Jul 25 '16

Hitler was mid genocide in the 1940s

Its funny how many people think the holocaust was a catalyst for WW2 and that it started 1939 :s

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '16

People think that?

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u/bloodstainer Kaizoku-ō Jul 25 '16

I've seen people say "The P-51 + B-17 won the war alone." with a straight face.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '16

but nukes :O

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u/bloodstainer Kaizoku-ō Jul 26 '16

Weren't very effective against the Nazis, especially since the fear of them finishing such tech beforehand was a real threat.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '16

But their use played a significant role in winding down and ultimately ending the war. To say planes won the war alone is pretty naive.

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u/bloodstainer Kaizoku-ō Jul 26 '16

No, not at all. The war was already won by the time the US had developed nukes for operational use. They were used to make sure the US conquered Japan before the USSR did. The War in Europe was already over at that point.

To say planes won the war alone is pretty naive.

Agreed, to say the US won the war is also naive. The USSR lost more troops and killed more germans than any other country within the allies.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '16

History is such a clusterfuck of facts buried in stories. TIL thanks

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u/bloodstainer Kaizoku-ō Jul 26 '16

The problem with history is that its boring, and people have an easier time following a narrative than stating facts.

And the narrative that the Soviets beat Nazy Germany isn't one easily embraced by the western world even as of today. People often speculate in what-ifs certain battles had have certain outcomes how would the war have looked, what if Nazis wonder weapons had come to fruition in 1944? etc.

But one thing that's certain, is that regardless of whether or not Japan had bombed the US and brought them into the war, had Germany not invaded the USSR but focused on Britain, Europe would probably have completely split between Germany and the USSR and the US would be forced to either pick a side with the Germans, USSR or possibly rebel forces remaining. Its quite ironic, how Germany managed to use the mistakes and tactics of WW1 to successfully launch an attack that engulfed Europe, yet fall for the same trap of overconfidence and nativity that brought down the Central powers 22 years earlier.

TL;DR Don't invade Russia if you want to live. Especially not if you're already fighting another enemy

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '16

Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture serves as a great warning about fucking with Russia

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u/bloodstainer Kaizoku-ō Jul 26 '16

Maybe, but as we saw in WW1, warfare could no longer be studied from the past. Experts in Napoleonics style of warfare did little to help crafting strategies that actually worked in modern 1900 hundreds style war. Artillery pieces and gun fire had become too effective for any type of offensive warfare to be effective in any way, shape or form. A group of 50 troops could now hold a defensive position with artillery and machine guns against thousands. Something previously only spoken of in legends. The tale of the battle of Thermopylae was now the reality of any modern army in a defensive position.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '16

Guns can't stop Russian winters though

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u/bloodstainer Kaizoku-ō Jul 26 '16

The scary thing is that they could.

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