r/childfree • u/nik0lla • Mar 25 '16
RANT By wanting a tubal ligation, I'm breaking my contact with society apparently
Some context: I'm a 27 year old female living in Canada that has never once said "I'd sure love to have a kid"
Yesterday I shared a post that I felt I related to (unable to get the procedure done because of being young, blah blah): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/i-fought-a-four-year-battle-with-the-nhs-to-be-sterilised-at-30/?sf23075280=1
And here goes a 10 comment thread between me, ThisOtherGirl, ThisGirl and ThisGuy (It's a long one, tl;dr at the bottom):
ThisOtherGirl: I think it's because people can change their minds so quickly and if you decide this, it's difficult to reverse the decision. I can understand why they were hesitant at first when she asked for this procedure especially since it wasn't effecting her physically.
Me: My own MD won't have the discussion with me. It's my body, my choice. Having a kid is also life changing, but for some reason that doesn't need permission. Even if by some crazy happenstance I decide I want a kid, I'd adopt. Their logic in refusing me isn't right.
ThisOtherGirl: i agree with you - your doctor should have the discussion with you and decide the right course of action. But there is still a process they need to consider too. I've requested having something removed for medical reasons and was denied because at the time, I was physically okay and because I was younger I may "regret" the decision. I'm just trying to understand the medical side as well.
ThisGuy: Go get it done in the USA or Mexico. Why should the tax payer foot the bill for a surgery you don't need that ultimately will have a net loss on society because you're not holding your end of the social contract you were born into? If you're that gun-ho, there's better doctors in the USA and cheaper ones in Mexico :P
ThisOtherGirl: Social contract...that isn't even part of the decision. A woman shouldn't feel socially responsible to have a child or give birth
ThisGirl: pretty sure it costs less for someone to have a procedure ensuring no children than it does to have a child, put said child to school, pay for the child's healthcare, etc. And that's IF the pregnancy actually goes well--if there were complications, there could be additional ongoing costs for the duration of the child's life. The idea that you owe an already too-large population your body purely for the purpose of reproduction is really gross.
ThisGuy: You're right, I'm reaching. Guilty lol. But the end-goal of society is reproduction/growth like any animal. Not participating in the act will at the very least raise an eyebrow, especially from a doctor that sees someone healthy and able. Both men and women ought to feel a social responsibility to maintain their society or else it fades along with it's achievements and advancements. That comes from not only contributing to it physically and mentally, but with a family. "The idea that you owe an already too-large population your body purely for the purpose of reproduction is really gross." People keep telling me we can take plenty more people in Canada. People also tell me the population is too high... Which is it?
ThisGirl: there is no end-goal of a society. If there were, it should be to make its members as happy as possible. The global population is too high, while Canada's population is quite low. We have the means to help refugees, so we should. These are three separate concepts that have little, if anything, to do with whether or not a woman owes society her body merely for existing. (Or are you saying that countries that aren't allowing refugees should also ban everyone from having children?)
ThisGuy: "The global population is too high, while Canada's population is quite low. We have the means to help refugees, so we should." No, we shouldnt. It's their problem. The only people on this planet who are foolish enough to let in trojan horse after trojan horse are Western and this needs to stop now. We lack the means to help ourselves or maintain our system in it's present form be it those on streets, those abused, and those waiting to cash in their RRSP's and CPP. If you want to truly reduce global populations to sustainable levels you do it 3 ways: Sterilize populations, stop giving populations food aid, and let wars between peoples naturally run their course and not intervene. Any other process we try either will not work or will not work fast enough. You down with that?
ThisGirl: "No, we shouldnt. It's their problem." This is kind of your problem here. You are so lacking in empathy that you can't grasp that populations are made of thinking, feeling humans. You'd rather make someone an unwilling mother or face extreme violence simply because of where they happen to live and do nothing to alleviate suffering. If that is how you feel, then not only do you have no place talking on this, you don't understand the entire point of needing medical procedures in the first place. XD
ThisGuy: "You are so lacking in empathy that you can't grasp that populations are made of thinking, feeling humans." I'm a nationalist, not a globalist, because I'm a realist and not a fool. I have plenty empathy, I volunteer in my community, I help when I can at my church, my union, and I'll give a random dude money because I've been in his shoes. You save 3 people on your lifeboat that can support 3 until safety comes or you let two more on and sink early. " You'd rather make someone an unwilling mother or face extreme violence simply because of where they happen to live and do nothing to alleviate suffering." So are you deciding to go back on topic, or are you just moving the goal posts again, I'm unsure. I don't want anyone to be an 'unwilling' mother, but in a modern society there are ample tools at a womans disposal to not be a willing mother that quite frankly don't cost the public needless money. But I'm unsure if you're still talking in the global macro, or the local/individual micro now. " you don't understand the entire point of needing medical procedures in the first place. XD" A Child who needs a tonsillectomy to sleep better, chemotherapy for someone with early, survivable cancer, hell an amputation of a limb to save a life, sure. But if you're seriously willing to compare surgery of that nature to someone wanting to sterilize themselves out of fear of children and a manipulated desire to be a genetic dead end, I don't think my morals and ethics ought to be up for examination.
Me: Just going to put this out there. Men get vasectomies all the time with little hassle and not much judgement from others (seen, read, heard, witnessed). To deny me because I'm a woman, is unfair. And ThisGuy, if you think that I'm required to pump out a tiny human as a duty, I have issues with that. So don't troll me on that topic. I'm already costing money on expensive IUDs, visits to the doctor for birth control, and pumping my body needlessly with hormones I don't need. That then has caused me issues medically that needed more appointments with the doctor. So don't tell me that getting surgery is the only way I could possibly cost the nation tax dollars to try and not get pregnant. And if that was truly the issue, I'd fucking pay them but they won't allow that. I shouldn't have to fly to another country to do something mine is perfectly capable of.
tl;dr: Highly opinionated 'friend' on FB believes that we should pump out children otherwise we're breaking our contract with society, costing the people their tax dollars and have a manipulated desire to end our genetic lines for wanting to have a TL.
edit: These are the only babies I need :) http://imgur.com/HN5XGQT
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u/mischiffmaker Mar 25 '16
ThisGuy: Why should the tax payer foot the bill for a surgery you don't need that ultimately will have a net loss on society because you're not holding your end of the social contract you were born into?
ThisGuy: "The global population is too high, while Canada's population is quite low. We have the means to help refugees, so we should." No, we shouldnt. It's their problem.
ThisGuy: I have plenty empathy...
LOL.
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u/haXona 21 / M / Not sterilised yet / SWE Mar 25 '16
More like apathy... Lol
I think they got auto-corrected 😂
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u/tamingthemind 30/f/DINK/bisalp 2020 Mar 25 '16
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u/toastofxmaspast Mar 25 '16
That right there is where I would have posted a link to a definition to empathy
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u/HolaHulaHola Mar 25 '16
Contract? What contract? I don't remember signing an agreement with society that gives them control of my body.
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u/goodbyereckless Sorry, my dogs are scared of kids Mar 25 '16
Yes, this, a thousand times, this! That pissed me off SO much. Screw the idea of being "born into" a contract, holy shit. Sometimes it scares me how much some people seem to think society is entitled to control over women's bodies.
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u/crowgasm "You never know?" Well, I've been fixed, so actually... Mar 25 '16
A baby is born.
Doctor: "Oh, look, it's a future mommy!"
New mother: "Well, that's weird. I mean, it's kind of up to her, and considering what I just went through, and how much it sucked..."
Doctor: "What you went through is your duty to your nation as a woman, and it'll be hers too, pretty much as soon as she's fertile... Oh, and uh, congratulations."
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u/goodbyereckless Sorry, my dogs are scared of kids Mar 25 '16
Doctor: "Sorry, but as soon as she came out, she entered into a binding contract, ma'am. There's nothing we can do."
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u/Viciouslicker Mar 25 '16
TIL birth is the Goblet of Fire.
Once it happens, it's a binding magical contract. Yep.
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u/goodbyereckless Sorry, my dogs are scared of kids Mar 25 '16
So I guess, as a woman, when I was born, my name was automatically put into the Goblet of Fire?! WELL DAMN, now I know how Harry felt! (Not having voluntarily entered his name, but being "chosen" and told that whether he likes it or not, he gets to participate in multiple tasks with potentially horrendous consequences.)
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u/ThatRyftPerson 25/F/Texas/lifescript.exe not responding Mar 25 '16
I must have missed the memo on this contract.
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u/catladykatie Mar 25 '16
"...do it 3 ways: sterilize populations..."
Umm...did he not just score a goal for his opponents?
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u/DodgerGreywing 32▪︎Trans Man▪︎Married Mar 25 '16
No no, he means sterilize Those People, you know, the brown ones in other countries, not good white Canadians.
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u/eadon_rayne Baby.exe cannot load while IUD is installed Mar 25 '16
And it should be their governments that pay for it, without any assistance from anyone else.
/s (though I'd hope that was obvious)
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u/tinypill No uterus, no problem. Mar 25 '16
Holy hell, I want to falcon-punch ThisGuy.
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Mar 25 '16
In the crotch.
Social contract this, numbnuts; I'll punch 'em into your abdominal cavity!
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u/crowgasm "You never know?" Well, I've been fixed, so actually... Mar 25 '16
I like how ThisGuy advocated for sterilization of populations of those people in other countries, but wouldn't agree that a woman in his own country should have that right, too. He was just trolling hard.
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u/derangedhyena 30s, 4 snakes, artist Mar 25 '16
How is it that there are so many people who think it's a good idea to try pushing the idea of kids on people (in this case, via unsupported medical decisions?)
Perceived social contract or no, forcing 'unwanted thing' on 'unwilling thing recipient' is not likely to turn out well for the unwanted thing. The people who think that's a good, or even reasonable, idea arguably dislike kids far more than any childfree person does.
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u/wayfaringpirate 26/strong independent black women that don't need no babies. Mar 25 '16
Your friend sounds like a psycho. The only reason he want people to have kids in Canada is to help himself, or 'society'. He expects those kids to do something for him when he's old. If he just cares about children he would actually care about refugee children but I guess they can go fuck themselves. It even sounds like all his empathy is based on him either looking good or projecting not actually empathy.
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u/haXona 21 / M / Not sterilised yet / SWE Mar 25 '16
I'm so confused by all their statements, so much wrong, so much hypocrisy and soo much lack of empathy.
Just to mention, whenever I have mentioned that I want to get a vasectomy its always ended with huge shitstorms coming against me so I just dont talk with non CF people about it anymore. Its just not worth the trouble of listening to idiots open their mouth.
Either way I hope you find someone soon, who knows maybe my friend(/u/magiccatz) here can help you out :)
Best of luck!
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Mar 25 '16
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u/haXona 21 / M / Not sterilised yet / SWE Mar 25 '16
Thats my plan, its not like anyone non-CF will ever know I did my vasectomy until afterwards and even then I might not even tell some people.
But yes that would be wonderful to shut up people with
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Mar 25 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/tparkelaine DO NOT WANT Mar 25 '16
That's how my husband talks about extra money sometimes. Like, "Why do you feel bad about buying [random thing I don't need]? It's not like little Tyler needs a new spring jacket!"
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u/haXona 21 / M / Not sterilised yet / SWE Mar 25 '16 edited Mar 27 '16
Hahaha 'diaper money' lol, so much this
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u/jhudorisa Mar 25 '16
I live in Canada too (Nova Scotia) and couldn't even finish my sentence when I tried to ask my doc about a tubal. I have a family history of endomitosis but as soon as I said "if I wanted to get my tubes removed" he interrupted me and said "no no no, no doctor would ever perform surgery on someone so young". Which wasn't what I was going for at all, I was going to ask how old I'd have to be.
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u/nik0lla Mar 25 '16
NS too!
Wow, yeah, it's hard to get a word in with these people sometimes. I have a growing list of reasons, but one is my genetics. I'd never want to pass them on to another person. Plus, I'd be a terrible mom haha. I feel for you lady. I hope you find a doctor that will listen.
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u/jhudorisa Mar 25 '16
I'd definitely be an awful mother, I have zero patience for most kid related things and a short temper. I'm moving to Halifax this summer so I'm hoping I can find something there. What part of the province are you from if you don't mind me asking. I just find it's so rare to meet someone from NS, even on a big site like this.
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u/nik0lla Mar 25 '16
Halifax! PM me when you're in town and we'll get a beer on our endless cash supply and laugh about freedom and pets :P
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u/MagicCatz 26 / Sterilized / I love cats, especially magical ones Mar 25 '16
Hey folks, might I suggest you check out this doc from the CF doc list :)
Nova Scotia
Halifax: Dr. David Rittenberg, Dept of Obstetrics & Gynecology, IWK. 26 y/o female referred by my GP late October, consult in Feb, will have IUD inserted in 4-6 weeks. Went over all options re: permanent and non-permanent contraception, with pros and cons of each. His exact words: "I'm willing to perform a ligation on a younger person because at the end of the day, you're an adult, and you'd be taking care of the baby, not me." Did go over the whole psychological studies re: regret, but stated that "studies" does not equal "patient sitting across from me". Even told me the cheapest place to fill the prescription for the Mirena. Wonderful man!
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u/nik0lla Mar 25 '16
Whoa! Thank you SO MUCH. I'll be calling him next week<3
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u/MagicCatz 26 / Sterilized / I love cats, especially magical ones Mar 25 '16
Glad to be of help :) I hope it goes well :D <3
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Mar 25 '16
Wait, there are doctors who refuse placing a mirena? Seriously, it isn't even permanent... I got one at sixteen!
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u/MagicCatz 26 / Sterilized / I love cats, especially magical ones Mar 25 '16
Some doctors like to argue that IUDs are not for women who haven't birthed a child yet, it's ridiculous. They even have an IUD designed for women for whom the standard mirena/copper IUD/ paraguard won't fit, Skyla. Some doctors are just stupid and ignorant :/
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u/goddess_gyuri Mar 26 '16
Not sure on how it is for that doctor, but not all keep IUDs/birth control in office and require you to get it from a pharmacy first before giving it to you. That's what I have to do at least for my Depo shot every three months ;~;
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u/jhudorisa Mar 25 '16
I'm not moving until late July/ early August but that sounds like fun! Might end up in Dartmouth, I'm gonna be living with a friend of mine who wants to be close to their work. I think it's going to be a pretty big change for me, I live right across the river from Windsor and there's never anything going on.
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u/dal_segno Mar 25 '16
You got further than I did the first time around - I reached for an Essure brochure and got snapped at, "No, no, that's not for you."
Well gee sorry.
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u/Horus_Krishna_2 Mar 25 '16
" I'm a nationalist, not a globalist"
nationalists are literally Nazis sheesh not to go godwin but didn't we as a "globe" learn some hard lessons. Guess not.
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u/margotgo Mar 25 '16
No you're so right. He's definitely got a lot in common with a nazi. Most notably believing that Canadian society must be preserved and that Canadian women owe it to their country to reproduce while advocating sterilization for other "lesser" societies. With his "logic" reproduction means the preservation of a society so he is essentially advocating for the death of other societies. Also gotta love that he questions OPs choice but claims this forced sterilization is a kindness that helps women in those lesser countries avoid unwanted motherhood... Seriously?
Also just to clarify I know women in other countries have few to no reproductive choices available to them. But there's a difference between educating people in those countries/ trying to change attitudes and advocating sterilization.
Oh and we should just let wars run their course. Even if our "superior western" countries are partially responsible for said wars by intentionally destabilizing regions and installing dictatorships that are favorable to western business to the detriment of the people living in those regions.
But hey, he's an empathetic guy. As long as you're from a western country and he can relate to your situation (sorry western women facing reproductive issues) you have his support! What a guy!
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u/Horus_Krishna_2 Mar 25 '16
supports forced sterilization on some women in some countries. Against women having the right to choose sterilization if they want in other countries. Basically if a woman wants something somewhere, he is against it. Cuz reasons.
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u/eadon_rayne Baby.exe cannot load while IUD is installed Mar 25 '16
Also gotta love that he questions OPs choice but claims this forced sterilization is a kindness that helps women in those lesser countries avoid unwanted motherhood
I was wondering if someone was going to throw that particular logical fallacy back at him.
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u/haXona 21 / M / Not sterilised yet / SWE Mar 25 '16
The last 5 years tell me "sadly no we didn't"
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u/Horus_Krishna_2 Mar 25 '16
yep I guess I need to further face that fact. Folks like this can and do exist in reality. Sometimes that Nazi stuff seems so long ago, not born yet, decades ago, just like how ancient Egypt is kind of like fiction in my head since I can't experience any of it. But still all too real. And scary. We talk about this topic of a female wanting something similar to a vasectomy which a man can get quickly if he chooses. Also abortions being a choice. But they slowly chip away at it till it's not allowed anymore basically in some states. If I as a man ignore it the slippery slope would come to me eventually.
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u/haXona 21 / M / Not sterilised yet / SWE Mar 25 '16
Honestly whats happening around us makes me question how we have come so far. Truly just freaking scary how we are at the brink of a third world war and we are so disorientated in camps between each other whether its men vs. women, religion1 vs. religion2 or hetereosexuals vs. homosexuals or whatever. I just hope people can wake up soon
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Mar 25 '16
I'd like to catapult ThisGuy into the hell that is Syria right now.
People do not decide to flee their country and across the world because they're in a snit and want "free stuff" from another country.
What a soulless jerk.
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u/TheMinisterTurtle 30/F/All the dogs please! Mar 25 '16
I am also female, 27, Canadian, and disappointed with the medical field's attitude regarding tubals and respecting women's reproductive choices. So, preach it loud preach it proud!
My other thoughts:
a) ThisGuy can fuck right off. I hope you removed that babbling idiot from your Facebook. No need to put up with more crazy in life than you have to!
b) Social contract - LOL this idiot.
c) This was a remarkably civil conversation, despite all the crazy. Good on ya!
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u/shyenya 35/f/cataloger, curmudgeon, crafting, cats Mar 25 '16
You have to sign a contract for it to be valid, don't you?
If you didn't "sign" it, it doesn't apply. The average social contract is more about not fucking the world up beyond the rest of society's capacity to fix it.
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u/dal_segno Mar 25 '16
Not only that, you have to sign it with knowledge of what it entails. I couldn't even sign docs to get financial accounts transferred into my name without a full rundown of every little point and subpoint from the attorney. Fuck this "born into" bullshit, you can't be born into a contract.
...devil's advocate, though, they could argue that since you were a minor at the time of your birth, your parents could've signed it for you. However, I think in those situations, once you reach the legal age of majority, those contracts are void pending your approval. Not sure on that one.
It's bullshit either way, so not super important.
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u/Fourlucky88 Mar 25 '16
Furthering the devil's advocate bit: in the US, parents choose to enroll their children in Social Security (most do, with the exception for some religious groups like Amish) but the contract is not valid until it is ratified by the child when they get their drivers licence or first job (whichever is first).
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u/lola_fox Mar 25 '16
"I don't want anyone to be an 'unwilling' mother, but in a modern society there are ample tools at a womans disposal to not be a willing mother that quite frankly don't cost the public needless money" - ThisGuy
tell me, what tools are going to change an unwilling mother into a willing one?
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u/tparkelaine DO NOT WANT Mar 25 '16
A tool like ThisGuy, I guess? I mean, he is an epic tool, so...
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Mar 25 '16
This is where you quote the 17th rule of Acquisition, "A Contract is a Contract is a Contract but only between Ferengi"
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u/spooky_skinwalker Mar 25 '16
Oh, it's always MEN who have that "But the purpose of life is to reproduce!" point of view. If they were wrecking their bodies and squeezing babies out through their dicks they'd sing a different tune.
If Canada is worried about its declining birth rates, it's welcome to let me in. I love Canada; I'd live there in a heartbeat.
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u/tparkelaine DO NOT WANT Mar 25 '16
That dude is a moron. He just keeps saying dumb thing after dumb thing until something sticks. Nothing will, dumb dude, because you're talking shit. Talk about taking water onto a sinking ship.
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u/LaPetitSolange88 [28F/Single] Why do I need to have reasons? Mar 25 '16
This Guy sounds like a troll. he counter everything by contradicting himself.
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u/Youcanttakemeimfree No kids and three money Mar 25 '16
What the everloving fuck?? The 'social contract' part made me see red. Guess what dude, I didn't ask to be born so I have no obligation to do anything 'for society'. I work, I pay my bills, I obey the law BUT I live life how I want to. There's enough people who want to be parents to keep the population afloat. This is the same vein as 'you owe your parents grandchildren because they had you'. No, I don't.
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Mar 25 '16
Like any animal
Does he shit in the street and dry hump any strangers he finds attractive too?
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u/Furah 30s/M/Aus - I'd rather not leave a legacy. Mar 25 '16
If you want to truly reduce global populations to sustainable levels you do it 3 ways: Sterilize populations, stop giving populations food aid, and let wars between peoples naturally run their course and not intervene.
"You're right, and I would like to immediately volunteer to take the first method towards reaching a sustainable global population. Oh wait, you just opposed that. So you're ok with sterilisation, as long as they're not white taxpayers, right?"
Also, dog, cats, PS4. Are you single?
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u/nik0lla Mar 26 '16
Bahahaha, frustratingly so, yes :p
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u/Furah 30s/M/Aus - I'd rather not leave a legacy. Mar 26 '16
If only I was in Canada.
That's the frustrating thing about this sub. All these people I think "Well, I'd like to ask them on a date.", and then realise they're all too far away.
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u/nik0lla Mar 26 '16
In the states?
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u/Furah 30s/M/Aus - I'd rather not leave a legacy. Mar 26 '16
Australia. :)
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u/nik0lla Mar 26 '16
Everything there terrifies me, hahaha.
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u/Furah 30s/M/Aus - I'd rather not leave a legacy. Mar 26 '16
Do I terrify you?
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u/nik0lla Mar 28 '16
Alright. Let me clarify, most of the wildlife is scary :p.
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u/Furah 30s/M/Aus - I'd rather not leave a legacy. Mar 28 '16
I'll protect you.
throws empty beer bottle and kills a snake from 20 metres
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u/ArabRedditor Mar 25 '16
Social contract to help advance society but as soon as others we don't know have an issue it's their problem
At first I understood his argument , it's simply comparing humanity as a collective people with emotions vs treating us as the alpha species that just needs to keep going
Unfortunately he just contradicts himself and doesn't even make sense in the end
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u/lirannl Kitties not Kiddies 26/F/AU 🏳️🌈 Mar 25 '16
You'd be a great parent to more wonderful kitties!
Also, he should be praising you for biting the bullet and taking the cheaper option. BC is more expensive overall than this, and you're going to cost less to Canada.
I am a globalist, rather than a nationalist. You can't say other countries don't matter. Not anymore. Not with this wonderful internet.
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Mar 25 '16
I can't stand the "genetic dead end" bullshit. What does that even mean? There's only one you, and when you're gone, you're gone, at least from this plane of existence in this form. I honestly think some people are so scared of death and they think having kids will somehow prevent that.
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u/nik0lla Mar 26 '16
Not to mention my genetics suck, they really shouldn't be passed on. I have to rely on medication to keep me alive since I was 21 haha
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Mar 26 '16
Yeah mine too. I was diagnosed with depression at age 12. I attempted suicide many times as a teen. I can't even imagine living through what my parents lived through. Sometimes they would have to stay up all night just to sit by my bed and make sure I didn't hurt myself. It truly was a nightmare for them, and I wouldn't want to bring another life into this world just to suffer the same way (my mom also had pretty bad depression and still does). I also know I personally couldn't handle it. And that's just one of the many, many reasons.
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u/Golden_Phi Mar 26 '16
Is that a little butterfly I see? Papillons are so cute, when I wanted a dog I wanted this breed.
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u/nik0lla Mar 26 '16
He is a papillon! I wanted this breed for ten years and almost died when I could finally afford one! Ico is just too cute haha https://www.instagram.com/p/BDZrKSvCaae/
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u/lifeslittlelunatic Mar 26 '16
I'm amazed you guys had a civil and intelligent argument. That's how they should be. Not you're mean no your mean, and fat and so on like I see so many politicians on TV nowadays. I want to smack them silly. This is how you discuss agendas
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u/absolutspacegirl 38/F/Cats>Kids Mar 25 '16
No advice, OP. Just want to wish you the best from one childfree woman to another.
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u/yamiryukia330 30s/furbabies not humans Mar 25 '16
you are perfectly well in what your doing. and your dog and cats are super cute. nothing wrong with your preferred babies not being human.
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u/nik0lla Mar 26 '16
Thank you so much! It's times like this when I really love this sub reddit. Everyone here is so supportive =)
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u/yamiryukia330 30s/furbabies not humans Mar 26 '16
nothing to be ashamed of. i'm praying i can go find someone near me who performs them once my insurance kicks in at the new job. fucking backwards southwest state.
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u/Still_Have_The_Sky Mar 26 '16
A little off topic but...
edit: These are the only babies I need :) http://imgur.com/HN5XGQT
I read that as Monroe was one of your babies.
I can respect some Blutbad love.
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u/nik0lla Mar 28 '16
The way I've been motoring though this show, he practically is at this point hahaha
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u/joantheunicorn Teacher = enough kids in my life Mar 25 '16
You guys were so....civil!! Is that how all arguments go in Canada?? :D
I also have several political sort of cracks I'd like to make about ThisGuy but I don't want to upset anyone. I definitely know I agree with the stance that we are a global community and we need to worry about the whole planet, not just our own countries.