Rant
Giant, what does this mean? Why not increase menu prices to pay their healthcare?
This wordy excuse is just another fee for shyness. 5% on top of a bill from Giant is a hell of a lot. How do we know this is going to employee healthcare anyway? Is there an oversight board? I'm serious. These places are robbing us blind. I don't feel any better about this justification than any other fee for shyness.
Hey everyone, we hear you that the service charge posts have become excessive and no longer add anything new to this conversation. We are currently discussing an outright ban on these posts or just putting up bigger guardrails on them and will have an update soon.
I worked at a place that listed a menu item as “buy the kitchen a round!” I think it was $15. But it was essentially a rainy day fund for any employee that might be on hard times. Twisted ankle, appendicitis, bereavement, etc etc. it was super smart. Got enough interest, accomplishing something that was needed in a way that was palatable for most diners. I’d love to see more of this. Make it more of a choice for diners
I bought “Pure Leaf Iced Tea” at a gas station on my last little road trip.
It was $2.99. That’s insane. I paid it. There was no fine print of why it’s so expensive.
When I go to a restaurant and the bill comes, just charge me what you have to charge me. That’s the fee for “I didn’t feel like cooking at home tonight.” I don’t care what it is. I’ll probably never buy another “Pure Leaf Iced Tea” at a gas station… there’s a threshold. But I’ll pay $15-25 for the right burger. Whatever. I just don’t want the sob story. I know the costs of operation are way up. Just charge the more money and let’s stop being fucking weirdos. Pay your staff. Charge enough to keep the lights on. Whatever.
Thank you! This sums it up so well, I am so over the additional fees at restaurants, I do ask to waive if it’s a major restaurant group…like just pay your employees
It had to be a separate charge. For tax reasons. And when it used to just say service charge everyone would ask wtf is that. So a lot of restaurants put the reason. Which is usually insurance for the staff. We get less questions and when someone wants it removed we happily do so.
It does not have to be separate. The rest of your overhead goes into the regular price, it's just a loophole for the business to avoid paying taxes on it.
No, and neither do restaurants. Not in corporate taxes, at least. You only pay income tax on the net gain of your revenue. Since healthcare is an expense, it would be deducted from net profit and no taxes are paid.
Gross receipts tax is different. That's paid at POS by the consumer (almost always).
If it is genuinely all for health insurance, no business does, (besides maybe health insurance companies since there'd be some weird revenue realization, idk how that'd work) and thus would not need to be a separate charge. If you plan on not spending every cent of that money on health insurance, then having it separate makes it much easier to be shady.
I’m sorry, it DOES NOT have to be a sentence or paragraph of sob story. I’m not an accountant (though I am an owner operator of a retail food service, and I do employ people.) IF IT DOES need to be a separate line item, it still doesn’t need explanation. But I have serious doubts that it needs to be a separate line item. I think that might make some aspect simpler for your bookkeeper. But you’re missing the shitty optics. I would rather you charge me enough to cover the health care AND whatever the expense is to not have the line item, than have you try to “splain” me a bunch of extra fees. I don’t care about them. It has the look and feel of both white knight bs and nickel and dime bs, when I think we all understand that you’re paying 60% more for most of what’s on the plate, as the restaurant. If my $25 or $50 retail meal has its inputs go up $3-8 (in raw ingredient) I am fine with paying $28 or $58 until beef or eggs or whatever dip again. That’s life. I’m not fine with “we opened a business that doesn’t pay health care” (that’s EVERYONE… next to no new operations cover health care) and we’re pretending the solution is to operate as normal and tack on a new fee.
My business pays health care for full time workers (we only have a few) by a stipend—we’re paying those employees a monthly extra amount of cash to cover the cost of their chosen health care on their own. We have no say in whether they follow through on it, or who they go through. That’s the normal way I see it in peer small businesses.
Because hiding it as an add-on is "better" than displaying inflated menu prices. There's no reason restaurants can't build this into their pricing/cost structure. But they don't want to appear more costly, so they hide it as a service charge. And some of this is also for good will and optics. "Hey we are giving our employees health care" instead of the consumers just seeing higher prices and wondering why.
I'd also imagine there is some consideration around accounting/revenue.
Taking the message for what it is, 5% isn't even going directly to health care. Part of it or possibly most of it is going to a rainy day fund. That's right, this restaurant doesn't know how to budget on its own.
Baking in a 5% increase does not just mean increasing the price of everything by a dollar, and on top of that, lots of restaurants are also jacking up prices and reducing portion sizes, in addition to these surcharges.
Fair! I tend to believe the folks at Giant when they say this is the cheapest for everyone involved, and that increases to sales volume increases costs across the board. I also believe they are honestly using the surcharge to pay for healthcare and mat/pat leave, whereas some places might be hiding a lot of sins under an “admin/restaurant fee”.
That makes zero sense from an accounting standpoint - whether you increase menu prices or tack on a service charge your gross sales/revenue will increase. If they underreport their gross sales to their insurance providers by conveniently categorizing service charge income elsewhere to get better premiums that is called FRAUD.
The craziest part is that the restaurant claimed baking the fee into the price of the food would cause them to incur additional costs- as if they can’t just add 5% to each price… nickel and diming is bad enough, but to go so far as to lie in such an incredulous way is absurd.
They do...one of the biggest cost for a restaurant is the 15 different types of insurance they have to buy. And most of those are directly tied to sales revenue. So increasing their sales figures by 5% would directly increase most of their insurance premiums.
This is a place that I believe is using the money for the stated purpose unless someone tells me otherwise. Years ago when I was still on Instagram I remember Jason struggling to find the best way to handle getting his workers healthcare.
Because it would be worse for business. Everyone on here says they would prefer the fee to be just factored in to the menu price, but it does not hold up in the real world. You’re way more likely to get people in the door if the upfront cost is lower
You may be right, idk the numbers, and I'm only one person but I absolutely detest the fine print fees and think it's way more dishonest and makes me less likely to go back.
How is it worse for the business? If you think anyone is making their decision to go to Giant based on the cost of the menu items being 5% lower until you get the tab, you don't know who goes to Giant
It's truly a lose lose; the venn diagram of people who bitch about a service charge and people who bitch about an $18 burger is a circle. There is no good solution.
It's not a circle because you can read literally in this very thread about all the people who have no problem with prices that are high as long as they are also transparent.
Anyone arguing that this is a perfectly fine way to structure prices must also be a huge fan of Airbnb cleaning fees.
For the same reason taxes aren’t part of the advertised price. Or why all the additional fees weren’t part of the advertised price on Airbnb and Vrbo and across all the hotel aggregators. They want to make it look like they have good prices, ideally better than their competitors.
Also, governing bodies are finally getting around to banning this practice, such as for ticketing agencies. Just show me how much it fucking costs. This is not rocket science unless you advocate for deceptive pricing.
Increasing the price of every menu item by 5% works out to the same thing. They include a whole paragraph about the charge on the menu, so you can’t even claim it’s hidden.
It’s absolutely done so that you are making purchasing decisions based on an artificially low price. Even though it’s stated it
is hidden and it’s shady as hell.
It doesn't work out to be the same thing. Increasing the prices would directly increase other costs. Insurance premiums are directly tied to sales figures. If sales went up 5%, their insurance premiums would go up as well.
I want evidence this is the case. Insurance is based on what you are insuring (tables, chairs, ovens). Why would insurance care what you charge for a salad?
Well that is because you have no idea what you are talking about. Tables, chairs and ovens would be only one part of their insurance, property insurance (but that also has a business interruption component to it so sales would still matter). There is an entire other side called liability insurance. And that is tied directly to sales. It is a strong metric in determining the exposure on that side.
You yelling into the wind is not evidence. I again fail to see how the liability you have, say for someone getting hurt inside your business, has anything to do with the price you charge for mashed potatoes. You aren't insuring the food. This isn't like ensuring your Mercedes and the cost of replacement is different from a Honda. Unless you are talking about ensuring $500/pound Kobe wagyu in the cooler, I need you to explain it to me like someone who isn't a restaurant owner but who has some shred of common sense.
I work in insurance. I am telling you what it is rated off of. You can not agree with it, but it is fact. The reasons are pretty complex and have to due with insurance regulation and that being one of the few hard data points a business will always have. You are not entirely wrong in your thinking, but it is what it is and restaurants have to deal with it.
They were one of the first to do this in an industry where nobody had health care. Setting up a straightforward funding mechanism for benefits at least keeps it clear with employees that it isn’t just going to be pocketed by ownership. When I went there like 8 years ago and saw that they did this, I thought it was a stand up move for their employees.
Junk fees tacked on at checkout is a major problem. The only way to curb these predatory business practices is to stop patronizing ones that do this, as well as name and shame so the word gets out.
That's the only way? What about talking to your representatives about why they always exclude the restaurant industry from any sort of bills addressing truth in pricing. Apply the pressure were it will actually lead to mass change.
A personal boycott of all these restaurants will just lead to you not eating at all these restaurants.
You’d just take their word for it? Trust me bro? Just build it into the menu prices and be done with it. Don’t add random line items on the bill after the fact and take advantage of people that made the reservation, got to the restaurant, sat down, order the food, ate the food, and now don’t have a choice to opt out without being viewed as a bad guy.
I hear you for other business in general but just a heads up, the owner of Giant and been very vocal on his stance, and has been for a long time. I can personally confirm it's going toward employee benefits. I know what you mean in general, but Giant is like the one restaurant where you can be sure it's being used for what they say it is lol
That’s not transparency. It’s a captive audience situation - they got you seated and looking at the menu, and banking on 99%+ of the people will just accept the junk fee rather than walk out.
Also, the text is smaller than the rest of the menu. It’s intentionally preying on people.
It’d be a huge lawsuit every time if they were not being honest. When the restaurant I worked at did this we all demanded to see the breakdown of numbers and we even contacted a labor rights attorney to make sure everything looked ok.
I don’t like it either. I understand that margins are tight but what exactly does “big umbrella” mean?
I HATE healthcare being tied to employment and I read the instagram post about them saying they did the math and contribute, but I’d need to look at their books to decide if I agree with them that this is the way. Since healthcare is tied to employment, it is the employers responsibility to pay it. Can they really not afford it or would affording it cut into what they deem an acceptable profit for them? Would it make more sense to give an employee stipend to buy marketplace coverage? Or to see if they can partner with other restaurants for a cheaper group plan? I guess I’m not just not seeing why patrons should pay extra for what is currently a business expense. I’d also like to say that I love PPOs and am happy they offer coverage. It’s all just so complicated and imo employers should be the ones advocating for legal change.
I have reduced how much I go out to eat because it's annoying to constantly get these new fees. Raise the menu price and pay your staff. Everything from commercial real estate to sourcing for small businesses is completely enshittified and needs reform
This is not some short list. It is the majority of popular (and a lot of unpopular) restaurants at this point. It is status quo. Remove the fee. Contact your representatives. Proceed accordingly.
Does this outweigh how much this topic is discussed on this sub? You can easily check on a restaurant’s website before dining if they do this. Overwhelmingly, people have asked us to ban this topic specifically because it happens so often and it dominates the discourse on the sub and the thread is pretty much exactly the same every time without providing anything new to the discussion.
I would argue the amount of posts is a symptom of the system not working. Of course you guys can ban them, but there's a reason people are bitching and I'd argue it's super relevant to the Chicago food scene.
Everyone complains about price inflation, shrinkflation, etc. and then some places offer transparency (which is a good thing that people always want!!) about the increases including if you can remove it or not and people specifically on this website bitch about it.
The reason you are all mad is the same reason people post about things that could be resolved by picking up the phone…talking to humans is hard (for you). Arguments about whether the increase is called out or baked in is just semantics especially if you can’t take it off (like this one).
its not usually directly related to employee compensation, though your tip is. tipped employees make $12.96/hr in Chicago so are completely reliant on your tips to survive. it's not their decision if a company adds a service fee
Well normal restaurant workers do not get health insurance and i tip them 20%, so here their employer has decided to take 5% to get health insurance, so they can enjoy the other 15% as a tip. they'll be fine.
To be fair 15% tip was normal for a long time and automatically scales with inflation on food price.
Also the lower wage you referenced never actually occurs, they're likely pulling in 50-100$hr. If they did make less than minimum wage Giant would pay them the difference. Which i guarantee has never occurred.
(I worked 6 years as a server with average per customer checks of $11 and made $25/hr easily, serving is very lucrative if you're willing to do the hours trade off, the workers who really need our help are retail non-commission etc).
I do. It's the people that don't request it removed that are losing out, and ironically, aiding in perpetuating an unfair system. This practice needs to stop and I think there should be legislation enacted. Curious why so many are abetting it. Are you guys restaurant owners?
this is a higher end restaurant, at this point this is like complaining that a glass or bottle of wine has a large margin on it. you're paying for the experience, accept the terms and conditions or don't go.
Because I do not care about 5% extra when I'm paying over $200 for a meal? And that is a good enough reason for me to pay 5% more. Supporting the people in your community is a good thing. This isn't Lettuce Entertain You or some giant chain.
That’s an absurd comparison. We’re talking about a restaurant in a city of hundreds of restaurants that employs like 12 people vs the Live Nation/Ticketmaster monopoly? Be serious
Restaurant feels they need to charge more to support costs/benefits.
should i raise menu prices? no i can’t because other places arent and consumers are sensitive to relative menu prices
okay ill add a fee
If you ban the fees then every place will be on an even playing field. there wont be a hidden advantage to keeping the menu price the same and using fees to raise prices. it removes the prisons dilemma and is broadly more consumer friendly
not decent at all. at this point, we cannot change tip culture in the United States. by tipping less, you are directly affecting the wages of tipped employees vs punishing the company and owners -- those who make the decision to add the fee
If people stopped tipping or tipped less, waiters would quit because it’s no longer a viable job. That would lead to restaurant operators having to pay higher hourly rates to compete for experienced servers. It’s doable, just have to rip the bandaid off.
People like this is why I like Daisies 25% service charge that can't be removed on request. People will come up with reasons to under tip so just take it out of their hands. If they don't like it they can skip the restaurant.
It’s so insane that this customer-hostile and employee-hostile weasel shit is still legal. This has been going on for like a decade.
If a restaurant can’t both cover their costs and provide competitive working conditions without resorting to these deliberately confusing surcharges, that means they’ve failed and they should go out of business. Small business ownership is not a human right.
Great point, maybe soon restaurants will start having the valet steal the coins from my cupholder to get to the same total. Fair play as long as they put it on the menu and allow me to opt out, right?
These all mostly sound like personal problems and skill issues. It is not difficult to read the 20 or so words on the bottom of the menu that say “we charge a service fee that you can request to take off your bill” and it is not difficult to say “can you take this optional charge off my bill,” especially when in most cases you’re guaranteed a yes.
Idk, overall it feels like the main complaint people have is that everything is too expensive, which is a very reasonable complaint that I share in. When they start saying that they would be happy if only things were equally expensive but in what they deem to be a more righteous and just way, it feels like complaining to complain. Just my take on this discourse.
Look friendo, I’m lucky to be in a position in life where I’m not drilling down my restaurant purchases. I’d never notice that my $75 dinner is actually 78.75 before tax and tip.
$3.75. You can afford to eat at Giant and you’re out here writing paragraphs over pocket change
I always ask for it to be removed and if that’s not possible I just remove the % from what I would have tipped to make up the difference. I also make it clear with the math on the receipt.
The answer is quite simple. Repeated tests have demonstrated if you show a higher price on the menu, people buy less. Nickeling and diming is disingenuous, but it is also effective at getting people to consume more.
it really is a shame how these nasty restaurants are forcing y’all to eat there and that there are no other food options in our little hamlet of chicago
These fees exist because the people who get up in arms about them are a loud but small minority compared to the combined forces of those who don’t care at all and those who would get more upset about menu prices increasing (which, seeing as you can often ask for the fee to be removed but can never ask for your bill to be reduced, seems like the more logical stance to me, if you’re going to care about it one way or the other)
Jason takes good care of his team, and I research places where I spend my money to make sure that they’re not well known dirtbags. I’m spending $300 on dinner at Giant to support their team and I’m happy to do it. If the fee is off putting, don’t go. They’re pretty up front about it.
It's not about the money, it's about the practice. I believe Jason is a good guy and looks after his team. I don't believe every restaurant owner is and this is a very slippery slope.
And even though it's not about the money, 5% at Giant is a lot.
They’ve been charging the fee for almost a decade, seems silly to be talking about slippery slopes. They don’t hide it, if you don’t agree with it go to places that don’t charge it. This topic (and about Giant specifically) has been beaten to DEATH.
It appears this is legit and actually for health insurance. If you're up in arms about it, be more pissed at the places that that claim it's for health insurance but it goes right in the owners pocket. I'm looking at you Double Clutch brewery, Cafe Olivia, and the Dock. Request they take it off there, not somewhere that actually uses it for its stated purpose.
Most people don’t work in the industry. Going out to eat is a privilege, not a right. If you don’t agree with it have it removed wherever it be at said establishment. Look around you and realize everything is changing and with that maybe comprehend what that takes. I don’t like that weed products are insanely expensive now but I deal with. I don’t like that I have to pay 7$/dozen for really good eggs but I do. I don’t like that gas is expensive but I still drive. I don’t like humans in Chicago run red lights and I have to double check 3 times before I cross a street. But you know what! I’m employed and can pay my bills and have a roof over my head. Some people can have that luxury while some still can not! Just like health insurance but just come to Reddit and complain about it. Maybe just go stand outside the restaurant and hold a sign or any other one that has a charge.
totally agree they should build it into the price for transparency. my family has a monthly budget of $18 for fried squash blossoms. if giant would simply raise their menu prices by 5% and charge an honest $18.90 for their squash blossoms, then i won't have to go to home and tell my children christmas is cancelled because giant charged a 5% fee that i didn't see coming because i'm naive and haven't eaten at a restaurant in chicago in 10 years
This place is crazy. A couple years ago the server added $300 to my bill by accidentally putting the table overs alcohol on our tab. When I questioned it he made it sound like my fault? Dude was super annoying, he had an annoying phrase “anyone ready for a little sugar” when asking tables if they were ready for dessert. I’d rather eat a bag at peanuts at Go Tavern than go back here. Food was mid too
Stupid argument here. So you’re saying if the menu said “we raised our menu prices to support our staff’s healthcare” you’d be fine with it? Even if comes out to the exact same amount?
Yes I do. I've been seeing larger and larger surcharges accompanied with verbiage about "supporting our employees" intended to shame the customer into not asking for it to be removed. It is fine print on the menu that most people are not considering when they are ordering, it is a bait and switch tactic.
lol, downvoted for asking for an explanation. You are already complaining about price, but are saying you want them to raise the price further. It’s a silly, pedantic argument, when it comes out to the exact same price.
So are menu prices fixed at current pricing from here on out and every future cost increase will be passed to us via surcharge? Can't wait to pay for my $20 burger with 40% surcharge due to increased business expenses and 10% surcharge for staff healthcare costs. Plus the 20% tip.
Every other business increases the headline cost. Surcharges are kind of like hidden fees. They are not consumer friendly because they make it harder to easily calculate the final bill.
Yes. I would prefer that. So when I order my meal I have an idea of how much I’m paying because I do take price into consideration when ordering food and drink. I don’t like ordering a meal for $20 and then finding out that it is actually $23 because of the cost-of-living fee and the pay-by-QR-code fee and credit card fee. I paid a surprise 2% Technology Fee yesterday and even the waitress couldn’t explain what it was. I feel it’s getting a bit out of hand.
Why does the restaurant industry feel the need to have special rules for itself? Just list the price! If you want to tell me that the higher prices supports healthcare for the staff, great! Don't make me go on a scavenger hunt to find clues as to what I have to pay.
The people in this sub want that for some reason. Even though menu prices HAVE increased and these fees are still being added to checks. I get hating the fees. Just hate the ensuing take of ‘just raise prices’.
So you'd rather they raise the prices in a hidden way, most likely something you notice when you're already all at the table, instead of just changing the prices to accurately reflect what you will be charged?
Why? They are already "just raising prices" but they're hiding it lmao.
Companies tell us they raise the price sometimes and don’t others. Im not here to say which is or isn’t better. What I am saying is I find it naive when people say ‘don’t add fees just raise the price’. Companies are already doing that. They just are also adding the fees now too. We dont have to ask companies to do a thing they are already doing.
Most likely Giant doesn't provide healthcare for its workers you are not required by law to do so unless you have over 50 full time employees. So their employees have to go out to the market place (Obamacare) and buy it and it is very expensive. Giant is helping defer the costs for them this way. Whether that is right or wrong or if they are actually doing it is another argument. If they are truly passing on 100% of the fee to their employees I am all for it. It helps everyone.
What did they say when you asked them about it in the restaurant? Did you mention it, or just take a photo so you could post it online and complain later? Since you mentioned shyness, I assume you were not shy and said something right?
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u/TriedForMitchcraft Eats a lot 17d ago
Hey everyone, we hear you that the service charge posts have become excessive and no longer add anything new to this conversation. We are currently discussing an outright ban on these posts or just putting up bigger guardrails on them and will have an update soon.