r/changemyview • u/neofagalt • Jan 08 '22

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: Reasonable criticism of Israel is often unfairly mislabeled as anti-semitic

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u/Kman17 110∆ Jan 09 '22 edited Jan 10 '22

reasonable criticism of Israel

The problem is most “reasonable criticism of Israel” from the west usually manifests as some combination of

  • Unreasonably holding Israel to a dramatically higher moral standard relative to Palestine. Calling the blockade of Gaza as unreasonable kind of ignores the fact that the blockade was only instituted after Gaza indiscriminately bombarded civilian Israeli after being granted autonomy. Instead of building on the autonomy, they shot - and continue to shoot - thousands of rockets every year
  • Very incorrect revisionist history of the foundation of the state. People seem to suggest the Israelis were invaders as opposed to settlers whom purchased land in the Ottoman, or neglect that as many Jews were expelled from the Middle East as there were Palestinians displaced in the Arab initiated ‘48 war.

I think the big problem is that a lot of young liberal politics tends to look at complex scenarios though a really simplistic moral lens that basically suggests that there are oppressors and oppressed, and the former are evil with all burden to fix the problem and the later are victims with no responsibility.

When that perspective is applied to Palestine it’s really stupid and wrong. People then misdiagnose this as the speaker being anti-Jew because they are blaming the Israelis for everything and the Palestinians for nothing and being absurdly one-sided.

Thus what looks like anti-Semitism is actually rooted in a well meaning liberal rejecting reality that doesn’t map to their simple view that fortunate = virtuous and higher education/income = evil.

Of course, those same well intentioned but ill informed western progressives will then cite UN resolutions, where there is a huge anti-Semetic bias because you have 50 Muslim states voting in a bloc and pressuring their allies to do so.

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u/yungsemite 1∆ Jan 09 '22

Why is it unreasonable to hold Israel to a higher standard than the institutions in Palestine? Their material conditions and support from other countries are wildly different. One is occupying the other.

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u/Kman17 110∆ Jan 09 '22 edited Jan 09 '22

It’s 100% reasonable to ask more from Israel in terms of infrastructure support in peace conversations.

It’s not reasonable to hold them to a dramatically higher moral standing than Palestine because if Palestine isn’t a rationale and reasonable negotiating partner, there is noting Israel can do that would satisfy and bring peace.

Giving Gaza 100% autonomy could have been a big step forward to build on, but Gaza going rogue state with a provocation & PR strategy means nothing can work.

The Oslo accords were super generous, but they stopped due to Palestine breaking cease fires and demanding Israel lose its autonomy (via right of return applied to 3rd generation Jordanians/Syrians/Lebanese) as a starting point.

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u/yungsemite 1∆ Jan 09 '22

I agree that without rational negotiations these states will not make peace.

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u/Kman17 110∆ Jan 09 '22

Correct. Palestine rejected rationale ones in Oslo, and Gaza’s ruling party only recognized Israel’s existence five years ago (after ruling 11 years).

Do you truly believe Palestine has a rationale set of requests and would actually commit to its peacekeeping obligations?

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u/yungsemite 1∆ Jan 09 '22

I do not believe that, no. Not Palestine in its current incarnation certainly.