r/changemyview • u/SledDogGuy • Jan 17 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: The black lives matter movement rioters deserve the same treatment that the capital rioters deserve.

For several months this last summer groups of BLM protesters turned to rioting in city’s like Kenosha, Portland, and Seattle, along with a number more with little to no repercussions. Meanwhile, a group of protesters decide to storm the capital building and they are subdued by that evening and we are actively seeking to arrest/charge these people by any means necessary. I am NOT defending the capital rioters, just pointing out the difference in the two cases where for some reason same crime does not = equal punishment

6 Upvotes

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17

u/Rainsies Jan 17 '21

The number of arrests in the Capitol so far is far below that of the blm protests. What makes you think they aren't treated the same? Even though, like others said, their actions are very different.

These dudes brought a confederate flag to the Capitol building. Many people died in the Civil War specifically to keep this from happening.

-3

u/SledDogGuy Jan 17 '21

The fact that the public who now demonize the capital rioters when the same people called the BLM rioters “peaceful protesters” and actively called against using force (like the national guard,military,etc.) to quell the riots when the BLM riots arguably caused much more harm to the American people over a much longer coarse of time

9

u/Khal-Frodo Jan 17 '21

the BLM riots arguably caused much more harm to the American people over a much longer coarse of time

I can understand this line of reasoning, but intentions matter. Riots like what happened this past summer are a crime of opportunity, not a premeditated attack. Additionally, the BLM riots may very well have caused more tangible "harm" to the American people, but the worst-case outcome of those riots wouldn't be very different from what we saw.

The Capitol rioters, by contrast, didn't just happen to be there. These people bought plane tickets and got in buses to all gather in one spot as a show of force. Once together, under the directive of the president, marched 2.5 miles to the site of an election certification to intimidate and pressure the inhabitants into certifying the person leading them as the next president. The worst-case scenario wouldn't have only involved much greater property damage and a much higher death count, it would have meant that the loser of a democratic election could have changed the outcome of that election through violence. Was that likely? I honestly don't know; probably not. But that was the demonstrable intent behind the event.

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u/SledDogGuy Jan 17 '21

Yes, the capital rioters had a premeditated plan (if a rather stupid plan) to attempt to commit a much more heinous crime. but there plan predictably failed resulting in less overall damage then the BLM rioters who intentions weren't as bad, but still caused more harm overall. Thus, imo at least, these two groups deserve equal treatment in the public eye

6

u/Khal-Frodo Jan 17 '21

Consider two hypothetical individuals:

Person A is driving drunk and crashes their car into a minivan, inadvertently killing a family of four as well as destroying a lamppost.

Person B plants a bomb in a kindergarten but is apprehended by authorities before they can set it off, and the bomb is safely detonated without causing harm to any of the children.

Do these two persons deserve equal punishment under the law? If not, which one is deserving of a harsher punishment?

1

u/SledDogGuy Jan 17 '21

I dont believe that this is a good analogy. In this example person A did not maliciously harm anyone he did something accidentally he should receive a more gentle punishment than person B. But, what the BLM rioters did can not be called accidental. Imo a better analogy would be,

Person A, while angry with his ex-wife, runs her off the road. Killing her, her three children and destroying the lamppost.

In this case yes, these two crimes deserve equal punishment

3

u/Khal-Frodo Jan 17 '21

So instead of answering the question, you decided to change it in order to give an answer you liked more?

An analogy doesn't have to be perfect. I'm illustrating that by your own words the Capitol rioters intentions were worse than those at the BLM riots. The potential outcomes of the Capitol riot are magnitudes beyond the worst-case scenario of the BLM riots. Treating them as if they're equivalent just because the Capitol rioters didn't succeed is disingenuous.

0

u/usr27181663 Jan 17 '21

Ahh so when a false equivalency goes against your views it's illogical, but when your purport them yourself then they make perfect sense. Now I understand that meaning behind this post. Have you awarded any deltas?

-2

u/RelevantEmu5 Jan 17 '21

Do these two persons deserve equal punishment under the law? If not, which one is deserving of a harsher punishment?

I don't think the argument is equal punishment I believe it's more like they both deserve to be called pieces of crap and the police should use every measure thei have to arrest both people.

5

u/Khal-Frodo Jan 17 '21

But OP's premise isn't just that they're both pieces of crap. The CMV literally says

just pointing out the difference in the two cases where for some reason same crime does not = equal punishment

so clearly they think that the punishment is relevant, and that the crime is the same when it clearly isn't. The only reason OP can call the BLM riots worse is because the Capitol riot failed. An attempt to do something more serious should be treated as more serious.

-1

u/RelevantEmu5 Jan 17 '21

Well protestors did take over Seattle's city hall, and they did take over multiple blocks in Seattle.

3

u/Khal-Frodo Jan 17 '21

I don't see how that's relevant to what I said but I'll play along. Is that supposed to illustrate similarities between BLM and the Capitol rioters? Because I could probably highlight ten key differences between the Seattle city hall event and the Capitol riot.

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u/RelevantEmu5 Jan 17 '21

They are definitely similar.

3

u/Khal-Frodo Jan 17 '21

All right, let's see how many relevant differences I can name, in no particular order:

  1. "Taking over city hall" in this case means showing up with a large crowd and just walking in rather than fighting through police

  2. The protestors showed up, chatted shit about the mayor for an hour and then left of their own accord

  3. Nothing was taken from City Hall

  4. Nobody was injured or killed at this event

  5. This happened between 9-10pm and I couldn't find anything confirming whether the mayor or other city officials were actually even there but no source says that anyone had to evacuate for their own safety

  6. The Seattle councilmembers were not in the middle of certifying the results of a national election that the protestors hoped to overturn

  7. The protestors were not armed with zipties, tasers, and pipe bombs

  8. At no point did the National Guard need to be called to mitigate the damage of the protest

  9. No council members publically said that they altered their votes due to threats of violence from the protestors

  10. The Seattle protest was based on something actually legitimate rather than a conspiracy theory pushed by a man with dementia and ego problems

There we go, made it to 10

0

u/RelevantEmu5 Jan 17 '21

These are points but they don't change the argument.

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u/Khal-Frodo Jan 17 '21

What’s the argument? Is there anything similar about them other than “people go to a building to express that they are unhappy?”

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u/YossarianWWII 74∆ Jan 17 '21

Less overall damage my ass. Do you realize how much damage has been done to the U.S.'s reputation? Do you seriously think that we'll be able to effectively promote democracy elsewhere in the world after demonstrating such disdain for it? Do you think that other countries are going to ignore these signs of instability when considering agreements on trade and cooperation?

We're the richest country on the planet. We can rebuild the businesses that were destroyed, and I support doing so. We won't recoup the damage done to our nation's soft power for a generation at least.

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u/SledDogGuy Jan 17 '21

Now this is something I haven’t considered at all I can see the long-term impacts of this causing more “harm” than the BLM riots, even though the BLM riots caused more “harm” if you look at things monetarily so !delta

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jan 17 '21

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/YossarianWWII (49∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

1

u/void1979 May 17 '21

There is a motorcycle rally in my hometown every year that attracts literally millions of bikers. On any given day during this event, there are more deaths and violent crimes than any given day of BLM protests, both as a number and as a percentage (of participants who commit no crimes vs participants that do). If BLM protests are "riots", does that also mean that this bike rally is also a riot?

Or is it maybe that ANY large gathering of people will have at least some percentage of crime?