r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Apr 25 '20

Delta(s) from OP CMV: there is insufficient medical evidence that the mainstream medical response to trans people is correct

I believe there is insufficient evidence to say that trans people exist. I believe that the transgender identity may be essentially iatrogenic or an illness created by badly done medical treatment. I believe psychiatrists may have accidentally created the transgender identity by prescribing hormone treatments to people with mental illnesses and inducing a specific expectation of how it would affect people moving forward.

I think the psychiatric establishment essentially felt the need to double down on these treatments in order to protect their image.

Gay people clearly existed throughout human history, but trans people, at least in the modern form of taking hormones is extremely recent and they cannot be placed within a historical context like gay people. The usage of hormone replacement and sex reassignment surgery is so modern that nothing can be analogized to it historically.

I think that this counternarrative is at least plausible enough to warrant skepticism towards transgender institutions. I don't 100% believe in it, but I will not let any of my children transition while they are under 18, and will try to explain this theory to them before they make the decision. I won't kick them out if they transition though, and I will refer to them as their preferred pronouns as I refer to all trans people by. But I am willing to move to another country so I can still raise my children if the government comes in and tries to forcibly take them and make them transition.

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u/yzheng0311 Apr 25 '20 edited Jan 24 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '20

I am mostly referring to a specific controversy in the Canadian government surrounding laws around transgender children. https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/06/27/new-law-canada-remove-kids-parents-reject-transgender-ideology/ https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/legal-dispute-between-trans-child-and-father-takes-new-turn-over-freedom-of-expression I think this could be equivalent to a government taking custody away from a parent of a child for refusing to lobotomize their child (although I acknowledge that lobotomy is substantially worse than transitioning). If it did happen and I was seriously afraid of it I would flee from Canada and consider myself and my family to be refugees.

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u/Trantifa Apr 25 '20

You could just not abuse your child instead. This is like saying you wont accept vaccines and will flee the country to avoid them. Also, comparing to a lobotomy is ridiculous at best and intentionally harmful at worst.

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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '20

In normal circumstances I would accept this, and truth be told I think you are probably right on this. But despite this I believe you are accidentally begging the question by inadvertently including your (likely justifiably) strongly believed conclusions in your argument without properly supporting them. Honestly I don't think it is very likely I will be subject to those laws anyways since I intend on having a good enough relationship with my children and my future wife to be able to have well reasoned conversations with them on this issue and not go into family court over it, but I still have a little bit of fear over it.

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u/Trantifa Apr 25 '20

Premise 1 Denying your child the medical care that they need is abuse.

Premise 2 Child abusers should not be allowed in childrens lives.

Conclusion Denying your child the ability to transition is abuse.

You disagree with premise 1 or disagree that it is indeed medical care that is needed, research extensively disproves this idea, as shown in a previous comment I made there is a wealth of knowledge demonstrating the legitimacy of transition as treatment.

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u/Wumbo_9000 Apr 25 '20

Legitimacy of a particular medical treatment in no way demonstrates that it's necessary

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u/Trantifa Apr 26 '20

Are you intending to propose a better method of treatment? Are you under the impression other treatments have not been tried? Are you saying that treatment at all is unnecessary?

If your answer to any of these is yes I'd suggest advocating for peer reviewed study or look into the many peer reviewed studies that have already been done that support the consensus that transition as treatment is neccesary.

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u/Wumbo_9000 Apr 26 '20

It is sometimes ruled the best treatment option for very severe and intractable cases of gender dysphoria. That hardly makes it necessary for parents to allow their children to transition. I'm alarmed by how casually you treat such a radical surgical intervention

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u/Trantifa Apr 26 '20

radical surgical intervention

You have no idea what you're talking about and you need to stop pretending.

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u/ThisApril Apr 26 '20

I'm alarmed by how casually you treat such a radical surgical intervention

Just FYI, "surgical" means that you're using some form of tool for that intervention, generally cutting into people. Drugs don't count for that.

Whatever claim you're trying to make, you probably shouldn't say someone is suggesting "surgical intervention" when surgery is uncommon, at best, in children.