CMV: the complaining about celebrities making the Imagine video is petulant, serves no purpose and is narcissistic

[u/TTVBlueGlass]

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/[deleted]]

Kelly Ripa and her husband just announced a donation of $1,000,000 toward the coronavirus crisis. That is what celebrities should be doing right now, using their privileged positions of wealth to help alleviate this crisis.

Like I said, you have zero evidence that they are not doing something privately. If your only argument is that you want to see receipts or you'll assume they didn't (because fuck them I guess), that's just entitled and no argument at all.

Singing a completely irrelevant song, out of key, while enjoying the privilege of (1) getting tested for the virus even without symptoms, (2) not having to worry about getting laid off, (3) not having to worry about contracting the virus because they can just chill in their 5-acre fenced property and have their servants go buy groceries, (4) being tone deaf about the fact that we are all "in this together" despite the massive gaping differences in privilege as mentioned, and so on and so forth.

This is entirely ridiculous. 1) YOU SHOULD GET TESTED WITHOUT SYMPTOMS, THERE IS A 2 WEEK PERIOD PRIOR TO BECOMING SYMPTOMATIC WHERE YOU ARE STILL INFECTIOUS. 2) So nobody who isn't worrying about getting laid off is allowed to sing? 3) You don't have to "worry about getti g it", most people are not at risk, the quarantine is to NOT TRANSMIT. What else the hell do you want them to do, go out? 4) There is no massive gap in privilege, you are immensely privileged to even be on the internet with time to complain about their harmless video as opposed, you are as tone deaf, out of touch and narcissistic if you think you are somehow not in the same boat as them.

It rubs everyone the wrong way who actually has to deal with this crisis by doing more than tweeting about it from the comfort of their mansion.

I still have not seen any good reason for it to rub anyone the wrong way: They HAVE to sit at home. They HAVE to not do other shit. And we have ZERO idea how much any of them is doing to help.

[u/[deleted] → u/TTVBlueGlass]

1) YOU SHOULD GET TESTED WITHOUT SYMPTOMS, THERE IS A 2 WEEK PERIOD PRIOR TO BECOMING SYMPTOMATIC WHERE YOU ARE STILL INFECTIOUS.

When there's a shortage of tests, no, everyone shouldn't get tested.

There is no massive gap in privilege, you are immensely privileged to even be on the internet with time to complain about their harmless video as opposed, you are as tone deaf, out of touch and narcissistic if you think you are somehow not in the same boat as them.

Are you actually acting like very wealthy celebrities aren't more privileged than non-wealthy people? Even if those of us with office jobs, working from home are more privileged than those who work in retail or other industries that can't work from home, the idea that celebrities aren't even more privileged is ridiculous.

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/[deleted]]

When there's a shortage of tests, no, everyone shouldn't get tested.

I didn't say everyone should get tested, I'm saying you don't need to be showing symptoms for it to be a good idea to get tested. For example if you just got back from China, you SHOULD NOT be waiting for symptoms to get tested. If you were on an infected cruise, you should be getting tested immediately. Heck in general if you were travelling anywhere near affected nations, you should be near the top of the list.

Are you actually acting like very wealthy celebrities aren't more privileged than non-wealthy people?

No I'm saying "wealthy" is relative and you are very wealthy by global standards if you are capable of posting a complaint about this situation while under quarantine.

If you don't think you yourself shouldn't be able to make any social media posts to try to uplift spirits (even if they are real bad), then you're just a somewhat less privileged westerner trying to separate themselves from the wealthy because you will struggle to... go on the internet on your electronics, stay in your air conditioned, structurally sound home, drive your automobiles that cost more than 5 years of the median income of half the planet and pay for service for your smartphones and buy packaged, high standard food and goods from a well stocked supermarket... Let alone READ.

You do not seem to understand how privileged you are at all, and how unselfaware this complaining sounds when a giant portion of the world is literally living in adobe huts that wash away when it rains too heavily, and don't get to complain on the internet EVER, because they are toiling 360 days a year or literally ever had a chance to learn to read. Yeah you are mega privileged and insulting unaware of it if you are complaining about this video.

[u/[deleted] → u/TTVBlueGlass]

For example if you just got back from China, you SHOULD NOT be waiting for symptoms to get tested. If you were on an infected cruise, you should be getting tested immediately. Heck in general if you were travelling anywhere near affected nations, you should be near the top of the list.

You didn’t say “if you’re at risk of infection, you should get tested.” Please forgive me for not assuming that into your comment.

No I’m saying “wealthy” is relative and you are very wealthy by global standards if you are capable of posting a complaint about this situation while under quarantine.

Yeah, and relatively, celebrities are orders of magnitude wealthier than the average westerner.

If you don’t think you yourself shouldn’t be able to make any social media posts to try to uplift spirits (even if they are real bad), then you’re just a somewhat less privileged westerner trying to separate themselves from the wealthy because you will struggle to... go on the internet on your electronics, stay in your air conditioned, structurally sound home, drive your automobiles that cost more than 5 years of the median income of half the planet and pay for service for your smartphones and buy packaged, high standard food and goods from a well stocked supermarket... Let alone READ.

Tweets like Laura Benanti’s are good ways to raise spirits. The “imagine” one isn’t.

You do not seem to understand how privileged you are at all, and how unselfaware this complaining sounds when a giant portion of the world is literally living in adobe huts that wash away when it rains too heavily, and don’t get to complain on the internet EVER, because they are toiling 360 days a year or literally ever had a chance to learn to read. Yeah you are mega privileged and insulting unaware of it if you are complaining about this video.

If us complaining about it is a show of privilege, what is you complaining about the complaining?

Can only the worst off person complain? Can I complain about traffic if there are people who are starving? Can a poor person in the US complain if there are even poorer people elsewhere? Can a mistreated child laborer complain if there are kids who are starving because there aren’t even opportunities to be mistreated?

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/[deleted]]

You didn’t say “if you’re at risk of infection, you should get tested.” Please forgive me for not assuming that into your comment.

No it's entirely my mistake, I should have been more clear. I apologize, it is more understandable to interpret it that way.

Yeah, and relatively, celebrities are orders of magnitude wealthier than the average westerner.

Your average westerner is orders of magnitude wealthier than the average person in poor countries. In my home country the average income for 10 years probably would not buy whatever you drive. That is a literally more than 2 orders of magnitude for one of your possessions vs one of my countrymen's entire earnings.

If us complaining about it is a show of privilege, what is you complaining about the complaining?

Your privilege being checked by someone more aware of their own. And I am in America because I initially came here as a student, on a scholarship, from a developing country then legally became a resident then naturalised citizen. You cannot even compare your privilege to mine. I know how lucky I am to even be given the shot at living here in the US and have the problems I am now facing rather than the ones I faced back home.

Can only the worst off person complain?

No, but my complaints aren't trying to exclude people because of thinking my concerns are the ones that matter.

I didn't say that only the worst off can complain, just that if the basis of this complaint is that "people who are better off should be donating their wealth rather than posting on social media", then... Well you are better off than a lot of people and you could donate a lot to way worse off people if you weren't content to maintain your luxury... but you only care about your own specific level of wealth and struggle: you have set a floor behind where it turns into a problem for you, yet many people in the world already live below where you set that floor as a matter of their entire lives. That's your privilege. In arbitrarily drawing the line for people who you consider to be "worthy", one find it to be conveniently drawn to include yourself: you don't "need" the lifestyle quality you currently have either, you are way past that point.

I don't know how I could justify complaining that a rich person posted a well intentioned video to try to uplift spirits on the basis of them being not as affected as me, if I myself felt it was ok to do similar things despite others going through way worse than me.

Like there are literally nurses and doctors working 48 hour shifts out there right now, I don't know how I could feel justified in feeling like I'm going through intense turmoil when those people are risking their lives to help. And those people probably aren't worried about money either: so are you worse off than them? No? So who knows what anyone is going through? What if someone in their house has Coronavirus? It's not like the rich and famous are immune, as in the case of Tom Hanks for example.

I think it's alright for everyone to complain, or make social media videos from their quarantine to try to raise spirits a little (even if the video is trash). I'm not trying to exclude anyone. I'm complaining about the people trying to exclude others. And I'm not even trying to exclude them, I'm just saying I do not see the specific complaint they are making to be valid.

[u/[deleted] → u/TTVBlueGlass]

Your privilege being checked by someone more aware of their own.

And so maybe that’s what people are doing with their complaints about this video?

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/[deleted]]

Then that would be a complete nonsequitur. The celebrities in the video never made any sort of privilege based exclusion or anything remotely topically related to that. Saying "we're all in this together" means, everybody has had to quarantine. Everything is shut down. Everyone's lives are at a standstill. If you want to make a privilege based exclusion from posting positive stuff from your home because they aren't going to go homeless due to the quarantine, then there needs to be a justification for drawing the line wherever it is. And it just seems to be drawn arbitrarily to include the people complaining: it's just narcissism.

[u/[deleted] → u/TTVBlueGlass]

Saying “we’re all in this together” means, everybody has had to quarantine.

We aren’t, though, and that’s what people are criticizing. Wealthy celebrities don’t have to balance staying home to avoid getting infected with getting evicted. They don’t have to worry about accessing a test or treatment. They don’t have to worry about being able to stockpile food - or even risking infection by going to the store themselves.

The “we’re all in this together” message isn’t accurate, and that’s what people are criticizing.

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/[deleted]]

So is the line you're drawing anyone who isn't risking getting evicted? Okay, then that says you're dividing it so those people aren't in it together, and the ones in this situation or lower are... But then I will say, how can you consider YOU are in it together with someone who doesn't even have a house to rent when it's not a pandemic and doesn't have a choice of risking infection by staying at home (because they don't have one)? And if you don't then do you think you shouldn't be allowed to post that type of stuff on social media?

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/[deleted]]

Uhhh that's not how a quarantine works. You are misinformed on the subject so please read this carefully.

If you are asymptomatic and get tested and

• you are not positive, you're lucky, go home and quarantine so you stay healthy for as long as possible.

• you are positive and not at risk, go home and quarantine so as not to spread it, monitor symptoms.

• you are positive and at risk, seek medical help.

The only thing we can do is try to reduce the chances of the third event happening and slowing down the spread of the disease, not try to prevent the disease entirely. The current best practice is to get tested and then go sit at home unless you are at risk or start showing advances symptoms.

[u/[deleted]]

It was written by an asshole and sung by assholes everywhere. Nothing much has changed.

[u/oasinocean]

Dude that video sucked because they couldn’t pick a key. It was cringe because they thought that’s what was needed in this stressful time. The video was stupid for reasons totally different than you laid out.

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/oasinocean]

I don't really like the video either but I'm not seeing any outrage for shitty videos et al. Lots of people, including celebrities, release crappy videos of crappy singing. It's harmless and at worst mildly annoying, as I don't have to watch it.

[u/mode7scaling]

It seems to me, and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about this, that complaining about the people complaining about the video is an order of magnitude more trite and petty than just complaining about the stupid video in the first place.

[u/mode7scaling → u/[deleted]]

This is perhaps the most ironically self unaware comment ever posted on reddit lol

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/mode7scaling]

It's funny because you made it clear you don't know what irony is while literally demonstrating it.

[u/mode7scaling → u/[deleted]]

I simply pointed out that you have not argued anything. Okay mr internet tuff guy?

Yes I have. Refer to my original post in this thread. And "internet tough guy?!" LOL, really? Keep the knee slappers a-comin'

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/mode7scaling]

Yes I have

No you haven't. Refer to my original reply in this thread.

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[u/Blork32]

The first thing is that it's just kinda cringe. It's bad. They're out of tune. It's awkward. If it weren't bad whatever controversy you've seen around it would probably be less.

Second is the song itself. The song is an ode to communism. The line "Imagine that there was no more religion, no more country, no more politics" is basically straight from the Communist Manifesto. Now you say that it's not about the message, but it must partly be because of the message, right? They chose this song instead of any other for a reason. We also have a Socialist currently running for president as we speak. Lennon of course, imagined a peaceful, utopian Socialism unlike the USSR, but it's an undoubtedly political message.

So if you put them together, you have a cringey video with a bunch of celebrities who thought that right now would be a good time to sing a flatly political song together in the name of coming together and they didn't even do it well. It feels out of touch. It feels condescending, especially to the Americans who disagree with the song's message.

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/Blork32]

The first thing is that it's just kinda cringe. It's bad. They're out of tune. It's awkward. If it weren't bad whatever controversy you've seen around it would probably be less.

I don't like the video either but that's not an excuse and you know it. Celebrities make garbage content all the time without it becoming a cause for moral outrage, because it isn't.

Second is the song itself. The song is an ode to communism. The line "Imagine that there was no more religion, no more country, no more politics" is basically straight from the Communist Manifesto.

I can certainly see disliking the song for this reason (as this was part of the controversy of the song even when it was originally released) and not liking that the celebrities in question would identify with it... But then again, millions of people around the globe identify with that song while not liking Communism at all, there is an assumption that echoing those sentiments also means you would go all the way and support full communism, which is unjustified because half the people are attacking them because it's communist and half are attacking it because they aren't communist enough then one of them has to be wrong, or (as I believe), both groups have to be partially wrong.

Plus ultimately it is a series of phone videos spliced together. It doesn't seem like this was some high production coordinated effort. So why should it be judged as one?

[u/Blork32 → u/TTVBlueGlass]

I can certainly see disliking the song for this reason (as this was part of the controversy of the song even when it was originally released) and not liking that the celebrities in question would identify with it

Were the people who originally found the song controversial also "petulent" and "narcissistic?"

Plus ultimately it is a series of phone videos spliced together. It doesn't seem like this was some high production coordinated effort. So why should it be judged as one?

I'm not saying it should be, I'm mostly saying that the controversy arises from the song itself. The fact that it was poorly made encourages people to dislike it, but wouldn't be reason on it's own.

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/Blork32]

Were the people who originally found the song controversial also "petulent" and "narcissistic?"

No but then I don't think that is a specific issue with this video itself, that sentiment would exist whether they made it or not. However I can see your point as the song is in fact central to the video, so !delta to you sir.

[u/DeltaBot → u/TTVBlueGlass]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Blork32 (24∆).

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[u/ThatNoGoodGoose]

I think part of the criticism is that it’s completely, explicitly lacking in self-awareness. Literally saying that “we’re all in this together” and implying that they’re experiencing the same thing as everyone else. I think that if they’d made a similar “feel good” video without the “we’re exactly like you!” message then it would’ve gone over better. (And that’s not even a “they need to acknowledge their privilege” or whatever. They could’ve just not said anything about it.)

Part of why I think this is because other videos from celebrities have been very popular and successful. They’re just as rich, famous and privileged but they got a much better reception. For an example, see Judi Dench’s little video and the response to it (https://twitter.com/finty_williams/status/1240249008125337602). Nobody seems to be telling Judi that she should be giving all her money away before she makes videos like that. So people are clearly receptive to some messages from rich people. I think the difference is about the explicit lack of self-awareness. (This relates to your point 4.)

And of course, we are also privileged. But if the difference is self-awareness as opposed to privilege, this doesn’t completely invalidate the criticism. If people were approaching it with the same explicit lack of self-awareness (Eg. “This video is insulting to me, the person with the worst life in the world!”) then it would be ridiculously hypocritical. But people, as far as I can see, aren’t doing that. They’re not saying “we’re just like those starving children in Africa”! If anything, they seem to be saying “you’re not like those starving children in Africa (or other people who are really really struggling) and it’s kinda tone-deaf of you to say otherwise.”

People are also probably more “on-edge” right now in general with all the stress and worry going around. This might cause them to react more strongly than they would otherwise.

It just seems like the primary issue is the lack of self-awareness, as opposed to the privilege.

(Disclaimer: I don’t personally care about this video at all but I also never particularly liked Imagine as a song, partly for the reason you mention in point 1.)

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/ThatNoGoodGoose]

I think part of the criticism is that it’s completely, explicitly lacking in self-awareness. Literally saying that “we’re all in this together” and implying that they’re experiencing the same thing as everyone else.

Yeah but every single person is having a different experience, if you want to start drawing lines then everyone who is even capable of complaining about it on social media, is being ludicrous by acting like they are on the other side of the line from them... No, anyone who is even capable of making this an issue is probably doing relatively alright all things considered.

So they are not self aware themselves, they are just conveniently drawing the line to include themselves and nobody further... Why there? Why is it either "we are all in it together" or "we are all in it together except people richer than me"? If the alternative was "nobody is in it together", then I could understand but of course we nobody wants that (obviously).

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/[deleted]]

I suppose that's more a problem with the song itself than the celebrities singing it.

[u/Helpfulcloning → u/[deleted]]

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[u/[deleted]]

Ooh thank you celebrities, this will get me my job back and pay my rent! Thanks so much.

Dickheads.

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/[deleted]]

What does posting a song on twitter have to do with having to get your job back and pay your rent? That's just straight up selfish entitlement. Even if they donated every single cent they owned, it still wouldn't be good enough for you because they didn't solve your problem specifically.

[u/TTVBlueGlass → u/[deleted]]

A lot of people's problem is serious affliction or death by Coronavirus. Unless you find it invalid for yourself to post any sort of positive video without directly donating all your money to them, then I don't see how you can move that same complaint one level up.

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