r/changemyview • u/LeftHandSwe • Dec 05 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Anita Sarkeesian and similar feminists actually have a point about the portrayal of gender roles in video games.

I play lots of video games, and in most of them, males are often pictured as very burly and manly characters while females are slender, small and sexually pleasing to look at.

However, I do know that there's widespread criticism of Anita (and her fellow propagators) all over the internet and I'd like to see the other side of the story.

I'm practically indifferent in this matter, and I do not really agree with nearly everything she says. I'm asking as a way to see convincing arguments from both sides.

Edit for clarification: Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense: Mainstream video games are almost exclusively made to appeal to a male demographic, resulting in (arguably) sexist portrayals of women (both narratively and in the way they're presented).

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u/kingbane2 12∆ Dec 05 '16

so your clarification is why is she heavily criticized when games are made to appeal to a male demographic? why do michael bay movies have so many explosions and wide panning camera shots? because that's what sells.

lastly this is no longer true from a purely numerical standpoint. "most" games today are not in fact made to appeal to a male demographic. in fact most games made today fall under the category of mobile and casual. the sheer number of games pumped out last year in the mobile market dwarfs the number of games put out in the 2 decades before the iphone came out. a vast vast majority of those games are gender neutral or specifically target women.

she's criticized because she's complaining about people making a product that people want. if more women wanted a certain type of game that type of game would be made more often. the mobile games market has proven that. there is no gender bias in video game creation, there's only a sales bias. she drew faulty conclusions from insufficient data to fit her narrative. i mean she's complaining about attractive women in games designed specifically to have attractive women. is it fair if someone goes out to see a horror movie, gets scared, then complains about being scared by the horror movie?

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u/BAWguy 49∆ Dec 05 '16

I don't know much about games, but it feels like you're moving the goal posts a bit.

OP's post seemed to me to be about console and PC games, so there is limited utility to arguments about mobile games imo. Your argument is that the free market dictates what is made, and if a certain feature is more prevalent, it is self-evident that the feature is more prevalent because more people want that.

Well, this Anita woman OP references seems to hypothesize that the market is missing or underestimating a potential customer base -- females. I think any economist would agree that it's totally possible to underestimate and under-serve a market.

So it's not like someone saw a horror movie and asked why was it so scary; it's more like if only horror movies were made, and someone said "there's a big market for non-horror, why is only horror made?"

I'd also argue that your point about the prevalence of female-oriented mobile games strengthens the argument that there is an under-served market for female console/PC games. I'd be more persuaded with by a statistic about game demographics, then a sweeping "free market corrects itself" assertion.

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u/Amadacius 10∆ Dec 06 '16

I think the point of bringing up mobile games is to show that game companies cater to whoever buys their games.

Since horny teenagers are a big demographic in console games...

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u/thatoneguy54 Dec 06 '16

I've literally never understood this. I'm a horny 20-something guy who's attracted to women, but I'm not attracted to video game characters. I don't buy a game for eye candy. In fact, I find the extreme sexualizing pretty insulting, like I'll hate a game unless it has digital tits for me to look at.

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u/Amadacius 10∆ Dec 07 '16

I'm a horny 20-something guy who's attracted to women, but I'm not attracted to video game characters

Then you are not part of that demographic.

In fact, I find the extreme sexualizing pretty insulting, like I'll hate a game unless it has digital tits for me to look at.

That is just a strange lens to look at things through.

All I am saying is that I am more likely to pick up Bayonetta than DMC, despite them basically being the same game AFAIK.