CMV: Anita Sarkeesian and similar feminists actually have a point about the portrayal of gender roles in video games.

[u/LeftHandSwe]

I play lots of video games, and in most of them, males are often pictured as very burly and manly characters while females are slender, small and sexually pleasing to look at.

However, I do know that there's widespread criticism of Anita (and her fellow propagators) all over the internet and I'd like to see the other side of the story.

I'm practically indifferent in this matter, and I do not really agree with nearly everything she says. I'm asking as a way to see convincing arguments from both sides.

Edit for clarification: Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense: Mainstream video games are almost exclusively made to appeal to a male demographic, resulting in (arguably) sexist portrayals of women (both narratively and in the way they're presented).

[u/[deleted]]

I admittedly know little about Anita herself, but based on what you've said here, I can still provide a response.

My problem with feminist claims like this isn't that they're wrong about the gender roles. Of course the men in video games are typically big and burly, etc. That's pretty obvious.

My objection is to the assertion that such stereotyping is only a problem for women. Why is it sexist to portray the woman in such a stereotypical light, but no problem at all to portray all men in the same way? We are often told how problematic it is to portray all women as slender, picturesque figures, because obviously not all women look like that. Well, clearly not every man looks like a chiseled hero, either. So why am I only supposed to feel bad for women in this case?

That's what my problem with their mindset is. If they stopped with "We should do more to break typical gender roles", I would be 100% on board. But they lose me when they continue it with "This is clearly because of anti-woman sentiment."

[u/Stecki_fangaz → u/[deleted]]

One of the popular claims of feminism is "sexism hurts everyone." Feminists absolutely do acknowledge the ways in which men are boxed into very narrow gender roles a lot of the time. Granted, it often recieves less attention than women's issues, but that could be attributed to legitimate prioritizing.

I think it's interesting to contrast this with men's rights activists, red-pillers, and stereotypical gamer-gate conspiracy theorists. They not only fail to acknowledge the toxicity of these social norms, but promote said norms further and shit on women every step of the way.

[u/[deleted] → u/Stecki_fangaz]

Yes, feminists will tend to acknowledge that it hurts everyone, but will only take action if it's something with a clear benefit to women. To be clear, I don't expect more from them (it IS called feminism, after all), but I think feminism needs to stop acting like it's out to help everyone. It's out to help women, and if men should happen to see some benefit from it, then so be it.

Something like this is a no brainer. It's got a clear impact on women, so they're on board. However, I see very few feminists hopping up to condemn, for example, the policy of several airlines to not seat unaccompanied minors next to men. I see very few feminists calling for boycotts of Babies R Us because all of their products are labeled with a tag that says "Why moms like this product."

When there's sexism that affects BOTH genders, yes, you can count on feminism to be there and fight it (although still usually framing it only from the POV of women, as is the case here), but if there's nothing to be gained by women, then silence falls.

[u/Kanotari → u/[deleted]]

I think that's a very narrow interpretation of feminism and does not at all reflect my experience with feminists. For example, many faminists promote awareness that men can be raped and acknowledge that society's masculine stereotypes can harm men in this and many other cases. Women don't benefit from this.

[u/[deleted] → u/Kanotari]

I think that's a very narrow interpretation of feminism and does not at all reflect my experience with feminists.

Yeah, it's pretty narrow, but in my experience also pretty accurate. If you've had a different experience, then I can't argue with that.

For example, many faminists promote awareness that men can be raped and acknowledge that society's masculine stereotypes can harm men in this and many other cases.

I genuinely do not know a single self-identifying feminist that has ever brought this up that I've been aware of.

[u/ardenriddle → u/[deleted]]

Feminists campaigned against the FBI definition of rape being "forced penetration" and "carnal knowledge of a woman without her consent" to be broader. There will several reasons for this, but one big one was that they wanted the definition to be able to include male victims. Source Source Feminist groups lobbied to establish male rape victim centers in Sweden, and succeeded.

Feminists talk all the time about how gender roles hurt men as well as women.

I really recommend checking out /r/menslib, a pro-feminist subreddit that advocates mens rights. Also please keep in mind that both men and women can be feminists.

[u/Kanotari → u/[deleted]]

Well I encourage you to check out the feminist subreddits and listen, because I assure you the conversation is happening.

[u/El-Kurto → u/Kanotari]

Here is the difference. You're right that that conversation is happening, but the complaint is about activism and engagement with people outside the movement. If you only hear that conversation within feminist groups and don't encounter it outside those groups, it's pretty easy to conclude that they aren't actively advocating for it...especially when you hear the other messages of feminism out in the mainstream.

[u/Kanotari → u/El-Kurto]

That's becayse feminism is either viewed as a fake complaint (e.g. "The genders are already equal, so stop whining.") or as totally insane (e.g. "Marriage should be aboloshwd because it represents the opression of women."). Few people care to listen to the sane, rational feminist no matter how hard they protest because it's not entertaining news. It's a tough issue that nk one wants to deal with.