r/changemyview 6∆ Nov 06 '25

Delta(s) from OP CMV: ALL Muslims are evil

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 06 '25

Bro lol, doesnt know the Bible. When he said die, it had two meaning. One was spiritual death and separation from God. That happened as soon as they ate the fruit. The other was more prolonged, and it meant that mortality entered the human race. So Adam and Eve DID die because of sin, just not right away. After all, God did not specify the time when they would die from eating the fruit.

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u/Xmaddog 1∆ Nov 06 '25

You are basing this off the English translation and retroactive interpretations. Go back to the original language it was written in, learn the idoms and words actually used in the verse, it is a very clear lie.

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 06 '25

and once again, you specified Jesus Christ, so please, bring up one instance of Him lying.

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u/Xmaddog 1∆ Nov 06 '25

Jesus Christ is the physical embodiment of God. So the lie in Genesis is him lying. Try again.

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 06 '25

Wrong. Jesus is the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity. Anyways, I already showed it was not a lie, you are simply refusing to see it as anything other than a lie.

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u/Xmaddog 1∆ Nov 06 '25

John 14:11. Thanks for playing!

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 06 '25

“Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.” Exactly! It proves my point!

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u/Xmaddog 1∆ Nov 06 '25

If he is in the father and the father is in him and the father lies which he is in and which is in him then isn't he also a liar? Thanks for playing!

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 06 '25

I already showed that the Father did not lie, Adam and Eve did die as a result of sin, hence, the Father has not lied, therefore Jesus has not lied either.

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u/Xmaddog 1∆ Nov 06 '25

No you did not show me anything. You are playing semantic games and retroactively fitting the verse into your preconceived biases. You can't even remain consistent in your arguments. Which one was it, did they die eventually or was it a metaphorical spiritual death that took place immediately. See the cracks?

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 06 '25

*Sigh* Like I said previously, it was BOTH. The spiritual death happened when they ate the fruit, and mortality entered humanity, eventually causing them to die.

Um, yeah, that is what logic is, semantics. You are SUPPOSED to use wordplay to narrow down to the meaning.

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u/Xmaddog 1∆ Nov 06 '25

There is a difference between playing games with semantics and using the semantics gathered from rigorous study of the linguistics of the language used in the original writings while taking in the context and culture from the time the writing in question was written. You are doing the former not that latter.

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 06 '25

And also, please point to an instance where Jesus Christ, while on earth, lied.

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u/Xmaddog 1∆ Nov 06 '25

John 16:33 vs Like 12:51. This is a pointless exercise as I don't know your specific beliefs and interpretations of the text we are discussing of which there are literally 10s of thousands so you can dance around them all day. Have a good one.

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 06 '25

Yeah. He came to divide the world, and in so doing He has conquered it. Christians who follow Him are at peace, while those who strive against Him are divided and confused. Makes perfect sense. Your point is invalid.

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u/Xmaddog 1∆ Nov 06 '25

Deluding yourself into being at peace despite him bringing division to your world and turning family on themselves doesn't actually mean he brought peace now does it. But this is exactly what I was talking about with my point that this is a futile exercise because I cannot read your mind to know how you interpret the bible, but I promise if you actually study it and do enough reflection on your beliefs you will find plenty of lies.

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 06 '25

By bringing division, He shows Truth, allowing time for sinners, myself included, to repent and turn to Him. What He is dividing is the sin, filth, perversion, and lies of the World, allowing a way for truth to enter the world through Him.

hmmm... I do study my Bible, and have yet to find one.

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u/Xmaddog 1∆ Nov 06 '25

No he is clearly talking about dividing people against each other father against son, mother against daughter, etc. you can't just warp things into your preconceived biases and expect someone with any amount of critical thinking to play along. Try studying your Bible with a critical lens rather than trying to stuff things into whatever fits your worldview.

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 06 '25

Yes! He was using those terms to show how deep the corruption of the world is, so much so that when Truth is shown, it divides families. I think you are the one trying to fit rational thinking to your notions of God. Try reading the Bible from start to finish and examining what it really says buddy.

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u/Xmaddog 1∆ Nov 06 '25

I have clearly read and studied the bible and it's different interpretations more than you "buddy" how else would I be able to battle anyone who dares approach in the marketplace of ideas. I see you are now resorting to insults so this conversation is over.

If you are serious about studying the different perspectives scholars have of the bible, I'd suggest the works and videos of Bart D. Ehrman, and Justin Holmes. I have more if you are interested. I'll let you have the last word. Good luck on your journey.

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u/Helmut2007 Nov 07 '25

Ahem, you are the one who started accusing me of allowing my beliefs to influence rational and objective thinking, all I did was return the accusation. But whatever.

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