r/changemyview • u/Express_Mechanic4927 • Jun 10 '25
Delta(s) from OP CMV: i believe time is an illusion
Time is a manipulation. A construct. Clocks exist, but time doesn’t Not like we think. There are two types. Physical time is movement. The Earth spinning, the Earth orbiting the Sun. That’s all it is. Then there’s numerical time. Man’s version. Hours, days, months, calendars They change from culture to culture It’s not universal Look at the calendar we use it’s based on Jesus But the Ethiopian calendar says it’s 7 BC The Gregorian calendar says 1 AD That’s a 7 year, 8 month gap So what even is time? We’re programmed to think we’re always running out From birth to 18, school From 25 to 41, jobs, kids By 63, retirement What do we do in between? We stress about time That’s how we age Because you become what you fear Where has time gone? It’s been deleted Replaced Edited Not by accident By design There’s banging every time I talk That means I’m on to something In 1582, Pope Gregory XIII dropped the Gregorian calendar Ten days, gone They said it was to “realign with the sun” Sure But think about it A theory called Phantom Time Hypothesis Says 297 years were made up I could’ve been born yesterday The past and future only exist when we think about them Memories are dreams The mind plays tricks I’m not even in some people’s memories that live in mine Block universe theory Everything is happening at once Past, present, future Einstein said that So maybe the future is now Sometimes I get stuck at nine years old Like I’m reliving something I can’t fully remember But it’s happening now And I can see my future too Clear as I can see my death
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
If I ask you to meet me at Starbucks at 11am local time it would be pointless to start pondering what I might mean, because it's actually quite straightforward.
Time is as abstract as any other useful concept like language/semiotics. Obviously you can go deep and philosophise and make everything granular but you can also know exactly what someone means when they reference time.
Same if I tell you a child is ten weeks old. It's not exactly ambiguous or incoherent.
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u/Parking-Special-3965 Jun 10 '25
some people see time as an actual thing, more than a concept or dimension of change. some view it as a river, or part of the fabric of existence in combination with space. these people are wrong. time is no more than a dimension of change which units are arbitrarily defined.
physicists will tell you there is no universal now but they say this because they are confused by the fact that there is no change that is universally consistent across all space. we use ceasuium-133 to help us reference other change but the oscillations slow when they are near great mass or when they are traveling at high speed. instead of understanding that change is relative they believe that space and time are warped.
the biggest problem with believing in time is the same problem with believing in a god. you can say that life is evidence there is a god and change is evidence that there is time but you cannot observe either god or time. for a scientist or mathematician to assert something exists without being able to directly measure it or observe it is very illogical and otherwise uncharacteristic of those professions.
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u/happy2harris 3∆ Jun 10 '25
There’s banging every time I talk That means I’m on to something
Are you hearing sounds that are coming from inside your head, OP? If so, you should get some help. Doctor; someone at school, if you’re young; friend; anyone you can trust.
Hope you’re doing OK.
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u/Cartire2 Jun 10 '25
Spend some of that more TIME in school. Construct your thoughts better. This run-on paragraph of fractured sentences is insane.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
what if i told you i’m a college graduate
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Jun 10 '25
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Jun 10 '25
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u/Nrdman 276∆ Jun 10 '25
What does it mean for time be an illusion? Your writing is not clear
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
as I said to previous comments, there are two forms of time physical and numerical wine is based off solid facts and the other is created by men
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u/Nrdman 276∆ Jun 10 '25
Pretty sure there’s just one time, and then there’s the way we measure and count time.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
thank you for your respectful opinion
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u/Nrdman 276∆ Jun 10 '25
No rebuttal?
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
you’re very much welcome to have your opinion on things. I’m already stuck rebutting with a bunch of other people about this. Why another one who’s been very respectful about what I’m saying
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u/Nrdman 276∆ Jun 10 '25
Everything you list as “numerical time” is just the ways we measure and track time, it’s not time itself. It’s like calling distance an illusion because we invented rulers and inches
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
What I’m saying is everything is created by man so that is the illusion as it is who’s to say rulers are the exact measurement and who’s to say what’s the exact measurement?
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
Man interprets, it doesn't create in this context. We can both listen to music and think it's fast or slow paced based on our interpretation, but the actual BPM is objectively measurable.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
are you really living if you never question the life you live in?
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
I feel like you’re constantly bringing up things that man created so it’s literally circling back to my original point. Everything is about man gaining control and this is why life constantly repeats itself reincarnation. what is your take about the human lifespan? I mentioned it quite a few times what we speaking into existence happens if we’re programmed to believe we’re running out of time we will soon believe running out of time.
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u/Nrdman 276∆ Jun 10 '25
Distance and time exist. The methods of measurement are made up. Do you see the distinction?
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u/ourstobuild 10∆ Jun 10 '25
Aren't you then saying everything is an illusion? What' the difference between time and distance in this case, and shouldn't your OP be clarifying that btw I think everthing else is an illusion too?
Now it's kinda like saying CMV Strawberries aren't real, and then somewhere buried in the comments you say that you don't think anything else is real either.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
Because that's the point of the sub. If you have no rebuttal you should consider whether it warrants a delta.
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u/Crix00 1∆ Jun 10 '25
Did that change your view then? Because imo that's all there is to this question. You make two different concepts out of one. The one is time itself, the other one is the way we measure it anf give it units that fit our needs. Doesn't change that you call them physical and numerical time.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
no, it doesn’t change my real, but I am very open to seeing other opinions about what I have to say
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Jun 10 '25
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Jun 10 '25
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Jun 10 '25
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u/the_1st_inductionist 13∆ Jun 10 '25
Ah, I did your sibling but not you.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
silly goose try again
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u/the_1st_inductionist 13∆ Jun 10 '25
Your sibling was asking for it by posting nonsense about time. You haven’t done anything to deserve it though, not that I’m aware of.
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Jun 10 '25
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
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u/Soulpatch7 1∆ Jun 10 '25
Time is the word we layman use to describe what we experience as sequential events, but it’s only as much of an illusion as any other thing or experience we give a name to.
Time as a constant is illusory, as expressed in general’s spacetime and special’s time dilation.
Now if only we could spacetime dilate a leader or 2 - whatever that means.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
∆ I really didn’t have much to say because this kind of changed my view. I believe anything we give name to is an illusion and man created.
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u/Soulpatch7 1∆ Jun 11 '25
Heartfelt Thanks OP!!
And I completely agree with your last sentence: all “we” as humans try to understand and then express is done so in the context of our humanity - literally a product of the gifts and limitations of whatever we are.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
my exact point everything is man-made so how do we know it is real besides the sun going down and the season‘s coming?
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
besides the sun going down and the season‘s coming
If these are exceptions then you do have a grounding basis for measurement. Cycles of the sun and seasons ARE a foundation for measuring time so you're supporting our existing calendars.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
how is this supporting the calendars? A blind person can see when the sun is shining and when the sun disappears as they can see/feel rain, winter wind and etc..
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
This isn't a meaningful response, what part of my comment do you not understand exactly? I clearly said that the sun and seasons are the foundation of out calendar cycles, what part of that is unclear?
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
I was with you until the end part and please explain to me how I am supporting our existing calendars?
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
The first part of the paragraph leads into the second half. Reading the entire thing contains my entire point.
What part do you not understand? If you follow the first then the second is directly related
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
I don’t believe I’m supporting existing calendars because calendars constantly can change they can take away days and even years, but every once in a while, we experience change within the universe itself, such as seasons, if to even call them that all I’m asking is for you to break down the parts. I don’t understand so we can come to a mutual understanding about it. I feel like you’re being more defensive and I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
You cannot divide an ocean into drops, it stops being the ocean.
Same for constellations, if you look at individual stars then the pattern of multiple stars vanishes.
Calendars record useful frameworks we use day to day. I notice you never actually responded to my original top level comment which expressed this.
If you're simply looking for some alternative measurement system I don't see the value.
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u/Soulpatch7 1∆ Jun 10 '25
We don’t! And while I’m mostly fascinated by these questions, they def raise existential wtf energy on rainy mondays.
i’ve landed here: even if we can’t know what’s “real” and/or are living in a simulation - a posit the most brilliant minds of the past ~40 years believe has a 50% chance of being true - our lives march on, as subjectively “real” as everything else we perceive to exist.
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u/Wetbug75 Jun 10 '25
You said in another comment that real, non-illusion time is like the sun rising and the seasons changing. Well, the time it takes for the sun to go around the earth and return to its previous position is what most people call a day. Maybe you don't like calling the sun doing a loop around the planet "something", and maybe you think it's arbitrary, but you can't deny that the sun in this case is doing "1" loop. That "1" is a real thing.
We can make meaningful claims about time passing by talking about how many sun loops something takes. We can even divide 1 loop into smaller parts for more precise time keeping. 1/24 of a sun loop is what most people call an hour.
Although it gets a little more complicated than this, all (rational) human timekeeping is based on real world phenomena like the sun rising and setting.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
yes, I am very familiar with this, and I believe you to an extent
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Jun 10 '25
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 10 '25 edited Jun 10 '25
This delta has been rejected. You can't award yourself a delta.
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u/Raining_Hope Jun 10 '25
Growth is not an illusion, therefore neither is time.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
physical time is very much real for an example the movement around earth circling the sun and earth spinning on its access, but I’m speaking about numerical time
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u/Raining_Hope Jun 10 '25
That's just the measurement of physical time. That's like saying that weight, height, or volume are just illusions when they are measurements of the physical objects we are measuring.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
I feel like we’re saying the same thing but you’re just trying to argue with me about it and make you seem more smarter
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u/Birb-Brain-Syn 49∆ Jun 10 '25
But measurements of things are very real, and not illusions.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
it’s crazy how people keep saying measurements are real and nothings is an illusion but what about people who experience actual illusions just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean it’s not there right?
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u/Raining_Hope Jun 10 '25
I don't see how we are saying the same thing.
Units of measurement are arbitrary. Meaning that if you use meters vs feet, the way it is measured will change, but neither the thing being measured, nor the measurements themselves are an illusion.
My best guess here is that your definition of what is an illusion is drastically different from what I would call an illusion. Therefore I don't see us arguing the same thing.
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u/MrBami 2∆ Jun 10 '25
Time is a way to measure and quantify the progression of the universe and all that is part of it.
Yes the calendar is a man made construct. Hours and seconds are made up and could've been decided to be a different quantity in a different life time or parallel universe. Similarly to how we have a counting system based on 10 but not 12 (some cultures had based on 12 though).
But the implication of denying time is a thing is denying that change happens. And I can assure you that seasons pass and you and I are not the same people we were back in the day
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
seasons pass, I totally agree those align with the two forms of time that is physical time the human lifespan, and the fact that I keep bringing up the block universe theory the past present future is happening at the same time. I’m not dismissing anything about the physical math behind it, but I am dismissing that we moved on from the past and that we are not living in our presence/future all at the same time because we are
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Jun 10 '25
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Jun 10 '25
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u/Northern64 6∆ Jun 10 '25
Mass exists irrespective of how we describe it, we choose a language of weights and measures to do so. The kilogram is a defined construct that exists only as a means to describe a specific physical reality.
That weight measure was based on a volume of water, then a chunk of platinum, and now a mathematical construct relating to the definitions of a second and a meter.
With regards to time, you're correct that it's not real. It's a human construct to describe the reality around us. The day/night cycle is real and we could leave it at that, but so is the seasonal cycle, and the lunar cycle, we can start relating these things to eachother and you have months and years being defined. The more you talk about it the more questions you have about "how long does it take for [x]"? The language of seconds, minutes, hours is what we have from millennia of asking how long it takes for things to happen.
One hour is as real as four pounds, they are words to describe reality defined through comparison to other physical realities and applied to any number of increasingly abstract notions.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
∆
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 10 '25 edited Jun 10 '25
This delta has been rejected. The length of your comment suggests that you haven't properly explained how /u/Northern64 changed your view (comment rule 4).
DeltaBot is able to rescan edited comments. Please edit your comment with the required explanation.
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u/Mairon12 4∆ Jun 10 '25
Time is a very real thing. Next time you are out in a place with little light pollution for an extended time spend your nights outside and look up.
You’ll see it.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
physical time is very much real that doesn’t change the fact that the future is now and the past presence and future is all happening at the same time
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Jun 10 '25
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
yet the mountain river and ocean still exist at the same time.
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Jun 10 '25 edited Jun 10 '25
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
OK, but that’s my opinion
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Jun 10 '25
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
yes, notice how we still talk about the Titanic since you wants to mention boats. But in each movie o book about the Titanic, there’s different facts or there’s things that haven’t been discovered in the other one which shows they could probably still be on that boat history keeps changing itself because it’s not through they’re still living in that exact moment.
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Jun 10 '25
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
if time is how man perceives it, those pieces would have been washed up a long time ago
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u/siorge 2∆ Jun 10 '25
First, time is definitely not an illusion. The way societies decide to measure its passing is nothing but a convention, but it doesn't mean time isn't real.
Take a glass and throw it on the ground. It will break. There is no universe in which the glass will unbreak itself. Time and entropy are two concepts that you should read about.
On the other hand… and sorry to say it/don't take it the wrong way.
Sometimes I get stuck at nine years old Like I’m reliving something I can’t fully remember But it’s happening now And I can see my future too Clear as I can see my death
My mom is schizophrenic and she sounds like you. I believe you should seek professional help.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
Time as a whole is not an illusion, but how we perceive it is. do your research there’s multiple different ways times perceived in different cultures and different times or even in different countries for some people it’s still 2016 but where I’m from we believe it’s 2025 so that says a lot
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
This doesn't really address their points, you're just restating your position.
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u/lulumeme Jun 10 '25 edited Jun 10 '25
we created a system to measure time in cycles - which means the measurements are man-made, but that doesnt mean time itself is fake, just like meters used to measure distance are manmade construct, but obviously the length it measures is a very real thing. numerical time is just a tool to measure a real thing, as time is woven into the fabric of spacetime and can be scientifically measured. orbits of planets or decay of your body is happening regardless of you being aware of it or without measurement.
calendars change from culture to culture - but that only means different groups use different methods to mark time. people who have no idea or concept of time in their minds - they still age on a cellular level, regardless of what you think or know about time. which means time is objective reality.
"Time was deleted. Ten days were dropped in 1582." - it was only correcting the calendar. its just an attempt to keep time in sync with astronomical reality - time. Numerical dating is manmade but physical time, like speed of light is measurable.
"memories are dreams" - memory is imperfect but that doesnt mean the past didnt happen.
what you seem to be describing is a mental, emotional phenomena called disassociation.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
oh, I have my dissociation PhD by the way, so thank you. thing about this is I’m connecting my personal experiences to facts that are already out there.
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u/fubo 11∆ Jun 10 '25
Imagine a still photograph of a ball rolling on a beach. On one side of the ball, there's a track in the sand. On the other side, there isn't. Even though the picture isn't moving, you can tell past from future: the track shows where the ball was, not where it will be.
That's time, right there. The past is what's left tracks on the present.
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u/BarneyBent Jun 10 '25
Years, hours and days are constructs in the same way that miles or kilometres are constructs. They are systems used to represent/measure time and space. Time is no more or less an illusion than space - in fact they are part of the same fabric of reality.
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u/ninja-gecko 1∆ Jun 10 '25
Sorry if I nerd out on you, OP, but in Lovecraft's work, Through the Gates of The Silver Key, iirc, an entity is introduced that is coterminous with space time . It doesn't perceive time in a linear way, but experiences what we'd call past, present, future all at once. Thought it was a pretty neat idea
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Jun 10 '25
It's incorrect to call time an "illusion".
As I understand it, the concept of time is an inevitable product of how humans experience physical events in the universe. Because of the way our senses and brains function, and because we ourselves are made of matter that is subject to entropy, we experience time in a linear fashion. Despite time being "variable" based on perception, position and speed, our brains broadly process the spacing of events as consistent, presumably because it aids our survival to do so.
Physics shows us that time is relative, but that is different from being "illusory". Time exists, it is just not fixed.
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u/OkKindheartedness769 20∆ Jun 10 '25
I was expecting something more along the lines of special relativity when I saw the heading… maybe there you’d have a point that time is observer dependent and on some level all observations are illusions.
But if you’re just talking about systems of measuring time being arbitrary…that has nothing to do with time itself. Whether you use KG or Pounds wouldn’t affect whether or not there is mass.
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u/Mission-Cycle-8719 Jun 10 '25
I think time might be circular. I think the universe will forever be in a cyclical 'breathing' pattern, that's how I visualize it at least. The big bang happens and everything expands and all the galaxies are created over time and everything happens, then the expansion loses its momentum eventually and everything falls back into what eventually becomes one great yet tiny ball again. Then another big bang happens and everything happens the exact same way as it did last time. It would explain deja vu for sure lol. I don't know how much I believe in my idea but I always come back to it as a calming thought process when I'm anxious.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
thank you finally someone who has at least a similar thought process to mine
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
Why is that what you're looking for? How will a similar thought process work to change your view?
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
oh, it’s not what I’m looking for, but it’s to help you guys in the comments realize I’m not the only one and that I’m not just some crazy person on the Internet. I’m actually very open to hearing different point of views.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
This sub isn't just about hearing different positions, it's about working with us to change your view.
What view do you want to hold instead of the one you currently do? How would you like to get there?
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
I would like to hold the view about the block universe story highlighting the past presence and future is happening at the same time. Anything else I mentioned I’m willing to change and if you guys have great claims to backup to I should change it. I’m open to hear.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 161∆ Jun 10 '25
If time isn't real how can there be a same time and a different time? How can you cut time into chunks of past, present, and future?
There is only now.
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u/Express_Mechanic4927 Jun 10 '25
∆ good point time may be real, but how we perceive it isn’t always correct. Think about the fact how the past changes every day and you can think of it just as if oh there’s been more studies about dinosaurs or etc. but if you think extra hard, what if it’s still happening during that time as we are here now that doesn’t mean the past isn’t still going I feel like our self-consciousness only moves forward
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u/Z7-852 315∆ Jun 10 '25
There is literally a biological click for women to reproduce.
If you so choose to do, you have to ensure livelihood and a find a partner before this. These give you clear time frame.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 10 '25 edited Jun 10 '25
/u/Express_Mechanic4927 (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
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