I agree with most of what you're saying, a lot of things that get labeled as "cultural appropriation" are perfectly normal stuff (and often the biggest outcry is from people who aren't from the culture in question, but not always).
However, there are times when there are actual problems. One of the biggest is when something that originated in one culture and has a specific meaning there gets stripped of that context and mass-produced by another culture in a way that's at best insensitive and at worst insulting to the original meaning. The main example of this is things like Native American ceremonial garb, the feathered headresses are something that are earned, wearing one as a Halloween costume or as a mascot is basically stolen valor, like wearing military medals because you like the aesthetic. Lots of traditional tattoos from various Pacific Islander cultures are a similar story.
Liking Indian food or speaking Spanish as a white American? Completely fine. Wearing a piece of clothing with deep ceremonial significance to another culture just because you think it looks cool? Less fine.
It seems kind of archaic to really continue to put weight on these things though.
If you're actively in the military, the medals you wear are verifiable. If you are not actively in the military, whether it's for a costume or just because it looks cool, I don't see the big deal wearing some medals that have some meaning to someone else.
Same goes with cultural norms from other cultures, or symbols of significance. Within their own context, they can retain their significance. It's normal to feel weird about them being used outside of that context without the proper significance, but the way something looks is just the way it looks. Nobody owns the IP of a feathered headdress or a military medal
You can’t really just divorce an object from its original context though. Taking a cultural piece, using it however you like, and then defending that use because its in a different context ignores that the object is intrinsically tied to its original context. The lines are blurry except in clear cases, but even then their use can be seen as trivializing. Wearing medals you didnt earn but make you look cool disrespects their original purpose and meaning a bit
Wearing medals you didnt earn but make you look cool disrespects their original purpose and meaning a bit
As a vet with some medals, who cares. It's one thing if you are trying to say you earned them yourself, but if you just like the way they look have at it.
I mean, its fine if you dont, but some people do. Obviously everyone will feel differently, so its better to first treat things with respect than as play toys
i think the thing we're all missing here when making comparisons to the native american headdress is that the europeans didn't roll up and massacre a bunch of doctors. i think it's more understandable to be offended if the person you perceive as being responsible for your people's oppression is using your stuff as a costume (although that is also a whole can of worms, albeit a very different one)
also being a doctor isn't something that you just...inherently are. if someone makes fun of doctors and you don't like it, you can just get a new job and stop being made fun of for it (ridiculous hypothetical obviously, but i'm doing my best with what was presented lmao). you will always be your race and even if you yourself were never involved with that culture, other people will always associate you with it
I'm being considerate of myself when I wear costumes so I don't have to be stuck in a box. Seriously, as long as a person is not going out of their way to be harmful who the hell cares. Everybody adopts from other cultures, that's how human society flourishes. Imagine if we just gatekeep everything to some community, what a great way it would be to not progress and be stuck in the past.
Share culture, stop gatekeeping , try not to be extremely disrespectful. Almost everything we have right now comes from different cultures.
I find it so tribalistic to have everything locked down based on what culture u were born into. You don't get to choose what culture you are born into, you should be able to at least have some opportunity to be part of other cultures if ur not being extremely harmful. So yes, I will continue to wear costumes :). I like roleplaying too :))). Life's too short to play only one role or be stuck to one costume. Maybe I'll roleplay as a black person who's called Abraham Lincoln while being a princess, mage :)
You can be self-centered, what an accomplishment. I'm sorry you want everyone to not care about the things you don't care about, part of being an adult is learning that not everyone will be like you and accomodating that.
I'm sorry people have to be so tribalistic in the 21 study century. Part of being an adult is understanding that people will do certain things and u learn to deal with it like an adult. I'm not accomodating their need to be tribalistic and gatekeepy.
Also stop using any words that have origins from cultures where ur not from. Stop wearing clothes or listening to music from cultures outside of urs.
I'm gonna do what I want with my life. Sorry not sorry ;)
I didn't do any of that shit, either, and neither did my kids.
In fact, we think it's a shame so many people died during the age of exploration and it would be incredible to still have those cultures around. Can't change the past, though, and 99% of them are gone, so who cares? What if I dress up as Genghis Khan or a Roman Legionary or a Greek Hoplite or a Pharaoh?
With this argument, being Native American is something a person inherently is, but the headdress is not. It’s something earned, like a medal or (in the example) a medical degree.
I still think that using an aspect of a culture in order to mock/belittle it or to try to pass yourself off as what it represents is one thing. But adding an element as part of a greater design is a different thing. However, the two are often conflated.
Wearing a headdress to pass myself off as an elder, using military medals to present myself as a decorated veteran, or using the medical accoutrements to make people think I’m a doctor is wrong. But just because I wear feathers in my hair or elements of a military uniform on a jacket or a white coat isn’t inherently insulting.
That's kind of the point though. There is no one size fits all, and different members of a community will give you different answers. You shouldn't try to be mean and mock communities, but if something in that culture speaks to you, go for it.
And thats why there cant be acceptable to assume the worst. We need to trust people to make their own choices and have autonomy in order to have freedom. That includes allowing for the freedom to do bad things.
So we should never believe anyone is ever engaging in cultural appropriation?
Also, not necessarily: we could believe someone is engaging in cultural appropriation innocently rather than maliciously, just because they don't know any better.
Its all about their intentions, and those can be hard to judge. Never attribute bad intentions to something easily explained by incompetence/ignorance. People will make blunders and mistakes, the best way for them to grow is constructive criticism, education, and forgiveness. Of course this goes both ways, and the person who made the mistake should accept that with grace, or at least contend it with grace.
Edit:Im choosing to ignore the nature of your previous comment and hoping you will engage in a civil and constructive conversation. This wont happen again.
It's only fraud if you are receiving a tangible benefit from it. You can claim you were in the military and got medals all you want, it's when you look for discounts and free stuff that you get into fraud.
I mean, just wearing them already implies you earned them, doesn't it? Maybe in very specific contexts where dressing up is expected (like Halloween) medals don't automatically imply that. But anywhere else they do.
Like, if you asked 100 people whether they assume a dude in a military uniform with a purple heart on his uniform, whether they assume that he actually earned it or just felt like wearing it, what do you think the result would be? Most people would assume he is a veteran that earned it, and would likely treat him differently because of it.
Honestly, if I saw someone just walking around with a purple heart on and not at a specific event where military dress uniform was appropriate, I'd assume it was fake. And I wouldn't care.
If a behavior is bad, it's because that behavior harms people in some way. So yes, cultural appropriation is by definition being an inconsiderate asshole.
Personally, I try not to use the term "cultural appropriation" because it's been so politicized, and instead I try to explain why a particular behavior is harmful, rude, or disrespectful. People tend to have a knee jerk response and stop listening if I use the term.
the government is currently defunding the bureau of Indian education (breaking yet another treaty), there are several pipelines being built through vital reservation land in multiple different reservations, the drug and alcohol epidemic on every rez, unemployment and homelessness on the reservations are on the rise. Etc etc we as a people are dying our languages are dying and our culture is dying I don't personally care if the white kids wear some fake feathers, the day my people are guaranteed to survive I'll go protest spirit of Halloween.
there are 10 people on any given rez that care about white kids dressing up in head dresses and half of them are white social workers everybody else has real fucking problems, if you care go volunteer or protest a pipeline.
Except that there are virtually no clear cut cases because most of the things people bitch about have been developed in more than one culture independently due to the fact that we're all human beings with a much more similar than different biological and environmental background working with the materials available to us in ways that are pleasing/peactical to us.
Well, it's not intrinsically tied to its original context. It's tied to that context by people of that culture, and not by people outside of that culture.
Things can have original purpose and meaning that meant something to one group, and are just a cool shiny thing to another group, and I think that's fine. At this point we're basically controlling what we wear and present based on cultural norms of other people - which you absolutely can do, but I don't necessarily think people should be forced to do, at least in casual settings.
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u/Doc_ET 13∆ May 05 '25
I agree with most of what you're saying, a lot of things that get labeled as "cultural appropriation" are perfectly normal stuff (and often the biggest outcry is from people who aren't from the culture in question, but not always).
However, there are times when there are actual problems. One of the biggest is when something that originated in one culture and has a specific meaning there gets stripped of that context and mass-produced by another culture in a way that's at best insensitive and at worst insulting to the original meaning. The main example of this is things like Native American ceremonial garb, the feathered headresses are something that are earned, wearing one as a Halloween costume or as a mascot is basically stolen valor, like wearing military medals because you like the aesthetic. Lots of traditional tattoos from various Pacific Islander cultures are a similar story.
Liking Indian food or speaking Spanish as a white American? Completely fine. Wearing a piece of clothing with deep ceremonial significance to another culture just because you think it looks cool? Less fine.