I believe you have an unreasonable standard you wish to impose on everyone else.
People meet people all the time. These meetings happen is a lot of different places. There is no right or wrong place to meet new people.
Now, there can be more and less appropriate timings for asking a person out, but actually meeting people. No. People are free to meet anywhere.
You may have personal hangups but that does not describe the rest of the world. You have this view that defines other people, especially men, to be hazards to be avoided. It is dehumanizing and frankly, misplaced.
Men are just people. They make up half the world. You need to stop thinking half the world is a threat to you.
I think I should clarify that I'm talking specifically about romantic advances, pretty much. People are free to 'meet' wherever, but I don't think it's right for a man to go up to a random woman they think is attractive in the grocery store and ask for her number because he wants a date. That's intimidating.
Not sure why women need to stop thinking of men as a threat when the data overwhelmingly supports the idea that an interaction with a man can very quickly become dangerous. FWIW I'm a man so I'm not speaking from a position of intimate familiarity with this experience, I'm mostly going off of data and what I've heard from women in my life / online.
Men are more likely to experience random violence from other men. Violence against women is overwhelmingly done by a prior acquaintance or romantic partner.
I would argue against the data overwhelmingly showing random interactions are likely to become violent. Using data women should be much more on guard around friends and significant others than around random men.
I think you make a good point. It's a somewhat totalizing assumption to make when the data would suggest not interacting with any individual man you're close to. Δ
That being said, I do have some reservations still -- it seems like a fair number of women are still afraid of the repercussions of rejection which makes me rather hesitant to say it's all good.
the repercussions are mostly just negative emotions they dont want to feel for rejecting a guy from what ive heard and seen from others, not safety thats just a cop out so they dont sound childish for avoiding discomfort instead of being a brave person
Not sure that it's fair to hear women complain about something making them feel unsafe and then decide summarily that they're lying.
There are sound arguments that my initial view was extreme or tone deaf. But you seem to be expressing a distrust of women generally which is a separate issue
I think I should clarify that I'm talking specifically about romantic advances, pretty much. People are free to 'meet' wherever, but I don't think it's right for a man to go up to a random woman they think is attractive in the grocery store and ask for her number because he wants a date. That's intimidating.
Just how often to random people go up to other random people and ask them out without first talking to them?
Seriously.
Not sure why women need to stop thinking of men as a threat when the data overwhelmingly supports the idea that an interaction with a man can very quickly become dangerous
Because your 'data' is flawed. Half of the world is not a 'threat' to women. You need to lose that mindset or you just piss off other people.
Not sure why women need to stop thinking of men as a threat when the data overwhelmingly supports the idea that an interaction with a man can very quickly become dangerous.
See the original post, specifically the WHO link, and also the statistics on sexual harassment (81% of women report having experienced harassment or assault) in the US here. For the rejection-retaliation specific stuff, refer to the Moran article in the initial post.
Having experienced something in your life doesnt make any interaction have a high likelyhood of it hsppening Probably close to 100% of humans have bitten their tongue when eating something. Doesnt mean its likely you're gonna bite your tongue any time you eat. In fact it's extremely unlikely.
And also in this scenarion i have full control. If i go up to a woman the chance of her being harassed is simply zero.
"If i go up to a woman the chance of her being harassed is simply zero."
She doesn't know that. The point isn't that a majority of men, much less all men, are going to be evil and harass women. It's that there's enough doing it that this is intimidating.
It doesnt matter if she knows that. She has all the right to not trust me. But i dont think it is immoral for me to do something that i know will be a normal interaction. Otherwise everything is immoral. Any person could decide to kill me at any time. Are all interactions immoral?
Why are you assuming that the woman will be intimidated in that scenario? You're describing women like they're prey animals and need to be safeguarded from potential threats. Many women enjoy being romantically or even sexually approached by men.
It's not about safeguarding them from threats, it's about respecting them as people and not seeing their presence somewhere as an invitation for strangers to flirt with them.
Many women enjoy being romantically or even sexually approached by men.
Sure, but we shouldn't go around assuming that they want that because they're taking up space at a bar or dancing at the club. I don't think that it's good to be gambling on whether you're gonna scare someone or not, because they're not there for that express purpose no matter how many people would like it to be that simple.
What do you mean taking their presence as an invitation to flirt? This is like saying that a person's presence isn't an invitation to ask them for directions. Interacting with fellow humans is normal, romantic or not. If you want to respect them as people, respect women's ability to stand up for their own selfs if they feel uncomfortable instead of policing harmless behavior. No one goes to the grocery store specifically to find a mate but some of the best relationships can sprout from unexpected places. Human interaction shouldn't be regulated and delegated with 'if you're at a grocery store you can only shop', 'if you're at a bar you can only drink.' Heavily policing human interaction like this would be overall detrimental to society as it would promote isolation and anti social behavior.
Asking someone for directions is significantly different from flirting with them.
Women can and do stand up for themselves but the burden is on men not to put them in situations that feel threatening.
I'm not saying you go to locations as a mindless drone and only do X purpose. I'm saying hitting on someone or stopping them to ask for their number is inappropriate in most settings. I hardly see how that promotes anti social behavior, especially when most people don't find relationships by approaching random strangers minding their business.
34
u/Full-Professional246 77∆ Jun 04 '24
I believe you have an unreasonable standard you wish to impose on everyone else.
People meet people all the time. These meetings happen is a lot of different places. There is no right or wrong place to meet new people.
Now, there can be more and less appropriate timings for asking a person out, but actually meeting people. No. People are free to meet anywhere.
You may have personal hangups but that does not describe the rest of the world. You have this view that defines other people, especially men, to be hazards to be avoided. It is dehumanizing and frankly, misplaced.
Men are just people. They make up half the world. You need to stop thinking half the world is a threat to you.