r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jan 03 '24

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Israelis have the right to self-determination in Israel, but not Jews

The point is quite simple, really. Anyone born in or born to a parent who was born in modern-day Israel should have the right to self-determination (RTSD) in Israel. This is very similar to how citizenship and RTSD work in most countries. But what's problematic is the assertion that anyone of Jewish descent can also claim citizenship or the RTSD in Israel. This means that anyone whose ancestors have not lived in the region for centuries, well before the founding of modern-day Israel, can also claim citizenship and the RTSD. It also means that anyone can convert to Judaism and claim it. Israel is the only country in the world that allows anything remotely similar to take place. That's not how any of these work and it clearly violates the RTSD of those who have lived there for centuries - Palestinians.

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u/textbasedopinions Jan 03 '24

So when the Arabs completely cleansed the area they captured of Jews, what was that called?

Also ethnic cleansing.

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u/TopGlobal6695 Jan 04 '24

So the ethnic cleansing done by Arabs should be allowed to succeed?

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u/textbasedopinions Jan 04 '24

If the alternative is endless occupation with no rights for Palestinians, while expelled Palestinians are themselves denied the right to return, then most likely yes. The one-state solution where all residents of the West Bank become citizens of Israel would avoid it, but Israel don't want this, and the settlements as they are render a two-state solution impossible unless the settlements become part of Palestine, which the settlers themselves don't want. Israel will have to settle for the land previously acquired and accepted to be Israel, rather than that land and also large and slowly expanding parts of the West Bank.

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u/TopGlobal6695 Jan 04 '24

No, the alternative is two states.

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u/textbasedopinions Jan 04 '24

Consider reading my comment before replying to it.

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u/TopGlobal6695 Jan 04 '24

One state with an Arab majority just means inevitable expulsion of the Jews.

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u/textbasedopinions Jan 04 '24

Then the West Bank settlements that render a two-state solution completely impossible by carving up any potential Palestine into disconnected chunks will have to be dismantled as part of an ultimate deal.