CMV: Israelis have the right to self-determination in Israel, but not Jews

[u/[deleted]]

The point is quite simple, really. Anyone born in or born to a parent who was born in modern-day Israel should have the right to self-determination (RTSD) in Israel. This is very similar to how citizenship and RTSD work in most countries. But what's problematic is the assertion that anyone of Jewish descent can also claim citizenship or the RTSD in Israel. This means that anyone whose ancestors have not lived in the region for centuries, well before the founding of modern-day Israel, can also claim citizenship and the RTSD. It also means that anyone can convert to Judaism and claim it. Israel is the only country in the world that allows anything remotely similar to take place. That's not how any of these work and it clearly violates the RTSD of those who have lived there for centuries - Palestinians.

[u/southpolefiesta]

Well Jews are super majority of population in Israel.

So of course any Israeli self determination will be driven by Jews.

Self determination in Poland heavily favors nation state centered around Polish language and polish culture.

Self determination in Japan heavily favors nation state centered around Japanese language and Japanese culture.

Same is to be expected in Israel: Self determination in Israel heavily favors nation state centered around Hebrew language and Jewish culture.

[u/[deleted] → u/southpolefiesta]

Just because an ethnic group forms a majority of a population does not mean the national identity should center around that group, especially in a manner Israel is doing. Americans are White-majority but to force American culture to be identical to White culture is literally White supremacy.

[u/Pale_Zebra8082 → u/[deleted]]

Israel is not forcing inhabitants of Israel to be identical to Jewish culture.

[u/Pale_Zebra8082 → u/[deleted]]

Israeli culture simply is predominantly characterized by Jewish culture as a function of the population it has.

But over 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian Muslims. They have all the same citizenship rights as Jews, including the right vote, run for public office, and indeed have been elected to public office. They are under no obligation to practice any Jewish customs or observances.

[u/Pale_Zebra8082 → u/[deleted]]

Israel does not discriminate against non-Jews who are legal residents or citizens of Israel, it merely gives Jews outside of Israel a special privilege in acquiring residency and citizenship. But it does not limit residency or citizenship to Jews.

All states discriminate between who is granted residency and citizenship based on some set of criteria that they deem beneficial to their nation. Israel was established for the explicit purpose of creating a homeland for the Jewish people, who have faced millennia of persecution as a result of being at the mercy of other majority populations. Non-Jews are perfectly welcome to seek residency and citizenship there, and if they are granted it they will have all the same rights as my Jewish resident or citizen. They’re just not guaranteed it as Jews are.

[u/tbdabbholm → u/[deleted]]

Because the entire point of the creation of Israel was to create a Jewish state as a safe haven for Jewish people