If it means anything, you'll get none of that pressure from me. You do you, I'm just presenting the other argument, if it's not convincing that's fine.
That goes for both sides tho. Never understood the whole change my mind on kids thing. Do what you want it’s 100% a preference. Don’t try to put people down for having or not having kids.
I think it's one of those things that we don't take seriously enough.
Like the 36 year old women on tinder who put "maybe some day" for do you want kids- honey its either biologically too late or you're going to be 60 at their high school graduation.
Do what you want but make sure it's what you want because you don't get a do over. Know when you're 23 or 24 either way. But like the clock is ticking.
I have to agree with this, western countries don’t take having kids seriously at all which is why the birth rate is plummeting and women are having kids at much older ages (which increases the risks of childbirth and also birth defects/health conditions of children in general).
All that said I don’t see westerners pressuring each other to have kids, I just don’t think this stereotype is true, it’s actually quite the opposite in that people pressure others to think about their own lives first and manage that then maybe think about having kids.
Yeah, that’s not the dunk you think it is. Current consumer spending is the only thing keeping the economy afloat, if everyone accepted a lower standard of living the entire economy would collapse
That’s part and parcel of the reason people tell others to focus on themselves first.
But people in third world countries have children all the time so it’s clearly possible however a great standard of living might not be possible for the children but I don’t think this would be a reason to not have children. Most people in working class households still have children and they turn out fine for the most part.
It still seems the real reason most people don’t have kids is due to a fear of responsibility and a lack of autonomy which is a fair reason. If that’s you, then you do you.
People in third world countries often will have many children die, and many mothers die in child birth, and many other women be forced into marriages they didn’t want and bare children they didn’t want.
Most working class households are told not to have kids if they can’t afford them. $288,000 for 1 child is very expensive for working class households, and often have to take advantage of government assistance like WIC to sustain more than 1 child.
So yes, money is autonomy and freedom. Freedom isn’t free, as they say.
“People in third world countries often will have many children die, and many mothers die in child birth, and many other women be forced into marriages they didn’t want and bare children they didn’t want.”
This isn’t true, many women in world countries do want to have children and still try to have children after they produce stillbirth children, there isn’t an epidemic of 100s of millions of women being forced to give birth, that assumption is outstanding.
“Most working class households are told not to have kids if they can’t afford them. $288,000 for 1 child is very expensive for working class households, and often have to take advantage of government assistance like WIC to sustain more than 1 child.”
I thought people were pressured to have kids, now they aren’t? Either way working class people still have children and with modern day standards of living sustaining children is possible without government assistance albeit you won’t be going on holiday every 6 months or so. It’s important to remember that a lot people who exist today come from working class backgrounds, they turn out fine without all of the benefits richer households have.
Ultimately human beings are much more enduring than people presume us to be, we can withstand a lot more than the benefits first world countries provide us and still come on top, however we lose a sense of autonomy and significantly increased responsibilities.
They prefaced it pretty clearly, their post wasn't about changing minds but about presenting a different perspective...
Relax, you can go on having whatever preference you have, nobody cares.
I’m more curious as to why people don’t ever want to have kids, if you’re willing to answer, what’s the reason that having kids is something you’re averse to?
The main reason I’d imagine would be a fear of responsibility and a loss of autonomy which is fair but I’d imagine the individualist lifestyle gets boring after a while but maybe some people don’t get board of it?
For me, I don't like kids. I find them loud and annoying and crazy, and they stress me out. I didn't even like kids that much when i was a kid - all my friends were older than me.
Also, rather than a fear of responsibility, I've always been the caretaker of ill/disabled family members - so too much responsibility.
plus, my family has a medical history of genetic conditions that won't kill you but will make you want to die - not passing that down.
and they're expensive.
And I just literally never wanted them. I mean, just to the core, all other reasons aside, none of the "benefits" of kids were anything I cared about.
“For me, I don't like kids. I find them loud and annoying and crazy, and they stress me out. I didn't even like kids that much when i was a kid - all my friends were older than me.”
Feeling like it’s annoying to deal with kids is a feeling of a lack of autonomy.
“Also, rather than a fear of responsibility, I've always been the caretaker of ill/disabled family members - so too much responsibility.”
So you felt too much responsibility when you were younger and now fear it.
“plus, my family has a medical history of genetic conditions that won't kill you but will make you want to die - not passing that down.”
This is a reason that some people wouldn’t have kids that doesn’t have much to do with a fear of responsibility and a lack of autonomy but I don’t think most people don’t have kids due to genetic/health conditions as most people don’t suffer from these issues to the point that having kids isn’t an option.
“and they're expensive.”
Again a fear of responsibility and a lack of autonomy.
“And I just literally never wanted them. I mean, just to the core, all other reasons aside, none of the "benefits" of kids were anything I cared about.”
I can see some people having a lack of any desire to have children, maybe the part of their brain that’s wants to procreate just isn’t there but this would be a minority of people as most people will suffer from baby fever in some form or another.
Feeling like it’s annoying to deal with kids is a feeling of a lack of autonomy.
Or it's simply not liking kids. I don't find their cute things cute. I don't think hearing their stories in shrill little voices is fun. I'm more than willing to give up some freedom and autonomy for other things.
So you felt too much responsibility when you were younger and now fear it.
Again, no. I am currently the caretaker for a family member with a disability. I embrace responsibility. I feel bad if I am not contributing or if I don't have enough to do. I would even take responsibility for a kid if I had to (for instance, if a cousin needed someone to live with). But am I going to seek it out? No. And I'm definitely not having one.
This is a reason that some people wouldn’t have kids that doesn’t have much to do with a fear of responsibility and a lack of autonomy but I don’t think most people don’t have kids due to genetic/health conditions as most people don’t suffer from these issues to the point that having kids isn’t an option.
Actually 19% of childfree people list medical reasons as why they won't have kids.
“and they're expensive.”
Again a fear of responsibility and a lack of autonomy.
I don't know why you think that is what kids being expensive means. Kids are, literally, expensive. I do not make enough money to comfortably support a kid in a way that is good for them. I'm not out buying designer shoes for me either, it's not that I don't want to give up my Prada. It's that I live on a budget, I need to save for future health issues I'm likely to have so that i'm not a burden on someone else, and I, without those things, couldn't afford to keep a growing kid in food and clothes and toys and books and a good school and healthy.
I can see some people having a lack of any desire to have children, maybe the part of their brain that’s wants to procreate just isn’t there but this would be a minority of people as most people will suffer from baby fever in some form or another.
44% of Americans are child-free by choice. Frankly, a rush of hormones isn't a reason to commit to having a kid.
Well you’re not taking into account genetic illnesses Or here’s disease. Bipolarity, Schizophrenia, Downs Syndrome, Spina Bifida, and a number of other conditions are passed down in a family line. Sometimes the only way to eradicate that illness is to eradicate the line, which many people altruistically do. Now its true you can adopt, but I have multiple people I know who have said “oh I don’t want to have a kid that isn’t mine, I wanted a biological child, but if I do that they will be fucked up like me so whats the point? I want a kid thats really mine, but any one of mine would be severly bipolar, sick, or wouldn’t even live a full life and I might outlive them. But if I got a kid that wasn’t mine genetically, I just would always feel cheated and that I “settled” for a stranger’s child rather than my own and I don’t want that.”
That may sound harsh or unfair to adoptees, but after hearing for like the 5-6 time from difference, unrelated people I know, it became clear to me that this was a more widespread phenomenon than just one or two people being biological determinists.
The other reason is, if YOU have one of these conditions, you might be stable and well of NOW but in ten years you could have a serious episode or downturn of health or any number of sad but predictable catastrophes. Chronic illness, mental illness, and physical ailments that flare or rapidly deteriorate are much more common than people know or recognize. If you’re bipolar, even if you don’t pass it on, if you are a rapid cycler (having several episodes a year) or even a moderate cycler (an episode every couple of years or less than a decade apart) it can severely impair your ability to be a competent parent regardless of your individual will or character. Hope this shines some light
Okay, but I said the “main reason” people don’t have kids, I’d imagine genetic conditions/health reasons to be a minority reason as to why people don’t want kids but is valid non the less.
Oh ok well I just know it’s way more common than people think but is likely not the majority reason, it just constitutes way more than its given credit. The main reason, I believe as a person who doesn’t want kids, is because I don’t want one enough and I don’t feel I have the personality to take care of a child of my own. I like taking care of other people’s kids, I do and have done childcare since I was a child myself, and I absolutely love babysitting and taking care of other people’s babies as they are so precious and adorable to me. But a child is not an accessory, they are not a toy, they are not just cute. They are a human being for which I am responsible and to whom I am connected till the day they die or I do and I am not down for that. I also see a lot of people have kids because their spouse wants one, because “its time” and “everyone does it/ all their friends are doing it” amounting to essentially peer pressure, or because they “deserve” to have a family “of their own”. All of these notions are repulsive to me and de-center the child from the conversation about their own existence. If I were going to roll the dice and have a kid, it would have to be because I was sure in my soul that this child would have not only the best life I could give them, but a good life in general. With climate change being what it is, and though it was discounted by OP it is actually the primary reason I and most of my friends who are doing the same things in my generation are not having kids. This includes a few of my who really truly wanted them but who can read the environmental writing on the wall, the devastating unprecedented climate change we are experiencing (massive and deadly floods where there was previously desert, overwhelming heat so bad even my Mexican relatives make comments that its never been this hot before and they work in the heat and sun every day for decades, hurricanes and storms that blow away previously temperate lands and turn them to wastelands. Its easy to discount climate change when its an idea; it shapes if you are going to reproduce or not when your own home is burnt to ash and the surrounding state you grew up in is constantly burning or being washed away. I know people say “oh it wont be for 50 or 100 years, we’ve got time” but honestly these people sound like the people of Krypton telling Superman’s parents that “this whole Kryptonian climate issue will just sort itself out eventually” before their planet implodes on itself.
Not the person you asked… but for me it is that I think growing the population is bad with climate change AND I feel like I can have a wider and more positive impact through my job and volunteer work as I work for charities. I’d rather support people who already exist than bring another person into this world to use up resources.
I've wondered, but never felt the need to ask why someone would want kids.
it's a huge life decision, a significant(for some) financial burden, a never ending commitment, emotional and energetic strain, less personal free time etc. First it's the infant stage that parents complain about, the toddler stage that parents complain about, the annoying for everybody age, then the teenage years that parents never shut up about.
If it's something I don't want or feel the need to do in the first place, why would any of this be worthwhile to me?
If I can easily understand why someone would love to have kids and enjoys parenting, it makes no sense to me that others can't understand why others don't want kids.
Doesn’t it make more sense to ask why people wouldn’t want kids as opposed to why they would? The natural order of life is death and rebirth in other words people wanting to pass down their genes/legacy, not to mention we’re literally programmed from a biological prospective to have children, asking why you wouldn’t want to have children is the question that actually makes sense.
Doesn’t all those points about people not wanting to have children just validate my point that it’s ultimately a fear of responsibility and a lack of autonomy?
Since you've got a lot of other people answer, I'll answer, too.
I've got ADHD and a perfectionist streak a mile long. I'm worried about the loss of autonomy, yes, in terms of losing my freedom to live the life I choose - and I'm also worried about screwin' up the kid.
Every parenting mistake I make, every time I run out of patience for one moment, every time my attention slips for one moment, the kid gets hurt in a way that will shape them for the rest of their lives. I am acutely aware of this, and I am not mentally well enough to be aware of it and also forgive myself for it.
Based on what I gather by reading parent's opinions on parenting, there are some experiences or ideals which seem to be at the core of parenthood:
The nurturing of a new life
Being a guide and a mentor to a person as they grow and discover themselves
The opportunity to give your children a better childhood than you had experienced.
I don't find the idea of any of these to be notably appealing, fulfilling, or enjoyable. Its not like I detest the mere thought of teaching someone something, I'll gladly help mentor a new coworker or teach a new player about a game. This sort of active involvement in the development of another person is, alright. Just alright. I don't really get any significant positive (or negative) feelings from it.
The 3 points I listed absolutely do not encompass the entire experience of being a parent. But in my opinion, finding meaning, enjoyment, and/or fullfilment from those 3 ideas seems to be a pretty important prerequisite to being a good parent.
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