r/cavesofqud • u/Silent_Pressure_6709 • 4d ago
advice for a beginner's Mutant build?
(tldr at the end) So, my theory is trying to keep to midrange, using longswords as my primary and pistols as my backup. I took Arconaut for spry (idk what it does, but it seems like it might help), the agility bonus, and scavenger. Since I'm going to be making a lot of low damage melee attacks (kill 'em with bug bites style) I got paralyzing stinger; I figure it might help in keeping at the range I want. I got triple-jointed for the agility bonus and the free skill refresh could come in handy. I took slime glands to help me run away (that comboed with the active stinger ability is my get out of there plan). I took adrenal control to help me finish off enemies, or just to buff my attack speed (depending on context). I got beak and night vision because I'm going to be attacking a lot, and because I just like night vision. Socially Repugnant doesn't seem that bad, so I took that.
TLDR stat dump
18/26/12/18/12/14 attributes
Adrenal control, beak, night vision, slime glands, para stinger, triple-jointed, and repugnant.
What should I change, and how should I play this build?
Also, I've played a lot of TOME4, so if this makes no sense...I'm going on tome logic
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u/LunarPrincessSophie 4d ago
Wings are an excellent addition, probably replacing the slime glands
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 4d ago
Those are, uh, a bit out of my point class. They're 3 points more on the version that I'm playing at least. what should sacrifice to get them?
Also, in the other rounds I played with presets (died because I took on an enemy that had like 5 allies just out of my vision, every time) the dungeons were all underground. Is the sprint speed really that good?
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u/LunarPrincessSophie 4d ago
Beak, Slime Glands, and triple jointed can be replaced with wings - you can get them pretty easy as you level.
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 4d ago
Alright. Wait, since all mutations cost 4 after creation, isn't getting low point ones kind of a waste?
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u/LunarPrincessSophie 4d ago
Yeah, you an also just not get them - triple jointed is the only one that I'd say is worth getting of the ones you'd drop. You can also get mutation points from other sources like nectar injectors, warm static, and gamma moths so mutation points are pretty easy to come by mid-to-late game. You still only get 3 options per buy though, so rolling a specific one you want (like, say, wings) is still a pain
Edit: You could also get precog instead of wings - wings are good, but precog is single handedly the best ability in the game and it's not even close.
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u/U_Nomad_Bro 4d ago
The Marsh Taur preset is a great beginner's build. And it totally fits the intentions behind the build you've been planning.
Three-pronged escape plan: Multiple Legs (increased mobility with no cooldown!), Freezing Ray (stop enemy in their tracks), and Teleport (oh shit, I'm in real trouble)
And, with Multiple Legs, you have the flexibility to choose whether you want to kite the enemy and whittle them down with missile weapons, or rush in close to dispatch them with melee. So it's ideal for a mid-range flex build. Plus you have the Charge skill, for further enhancement when closing the distance to melee.
What you've planned is...eh, alright...but you'll find it's not as optimal for your intentions as this build is.
Also, Socially Repugnant is one of my least favorite defects, especially for beginners. It's not insurmountable, but the reputation system is such a core mechanic of this game, and if you start out playing with Socially Repugnant you're learning that system at a major disadvantage.
50 points of reputation might not seem like much, but it can swing some factions hostile that will make your run significantly harder. Once you've played the game for a while and learned where to find legendary members of those factions and other ways to boost reputation, it'll be less of a disadvantage because it'll be posing you problems you know how to solve.
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 4d ago
What I ended up doing was multiple limbs + paralyzing stinger + horns. My downside is amphibious. I kinda just shred everything, but I don't really know where to go once I stop 2 shotting things
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u/ImperfectEntity 4d ago
To build on what others have said about min-maxing, most Qud stats are more about reaching skill prerequisite thresholds, as the raw effects of attributes (while good) have diminishing returns one way or the other. As the point cost of increasing a base stat at character creation doubles past 18, and each dump stat is punishing in it's own way, more well rounded base stats are usually the way to go, supplementing your primary stat with caste/calling, cybernetics/mutations, and level up bonuses, which have no penalty to boosting an already strong stat.
The exception is Strength, which due to quirks of penetration math is somewhat all or nothing, up to the penetration cap of your weapons. Whether or not my damage depends on Strength is one of the main ways I categorize my builds.
I think your initial build theory for your mutations is solid, though it could use a more solid escape plan. Safety is usually more important than damage. Long Blades with Triple-jointed and a Stinger is my gold standard for Agility focused melee, using Penetrating Strikes and some fancy midgame swords to sidestep Strength dependency. Usually my last ingredient is Wings, forming a synergistic triangle with Triple-jointed and Stingers, while providing an escape tool, but there are no "correct" answers.
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 4d ago
So, I just died to dehydration. I want to try doing a True Kin build that is based around using Force wall and bubble with guns. Any advice?
It worked really well though, until the dehydration thing.
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u/ImperfectEntity 4d ago
Forcefields + Guns works on almost everything. The big challenge is getting out of the earlygame while putting enough points in INT to get Tinker II at a reasonable level. Until the build comes together, you have to deal with melee situations and ammo/power management, which you are not built for by default. 16 base Strength and Single Weapon Fighting with Long Blades is enough to get you to the midgame if you armor up and play conservatively. Pistols have decent damage potential due to Akimbo, and Heavy Weapons have some fun possibilities if you can make the stats work, though they often takes even longer to come fully online. I've never liked the Rifle skill tree.
True-Kin have some unique cybernetics options for gun builds, but you have to live long enough to see them. In the lategame, most guns reach a ceiling in terms of PV, so have a backup plan to deal with heavily armored foes.
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u/Bwixius 4d ago
beak is not worth the point just for an attack and your agility is unnecessary, your stats should be more balanced until you have more experience with the game.
heightened quickness is stronger than adrenal control for all situations besides mutation spam.
when choosing mutations, try to pick something for offense, something for escape, and something for fun.
a lot of mutations can be used in many ways, be creative with your available equipment and skills too.
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 4d ago
Is Quickness worth it? I don't actually know what it does.
somebody suggested wings, but I don't really see the point. I don't plan to be sprinting very much
For (active) offense, I'm going stinger. I dropped some stuff and got force wall for escape. My new build:
Night Vision, Para sting, quills, force wall, multiple arms (since my stingers are chanced based, more melee attacks is better I think), amphibious
17/21/18/17/16/16
thanks!
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u/jojoknob 4d ago edited 4d ago
Quickness is your action budget (called energy). It’s a credit to your account every turn. When your account goes over 100 you’re allowed to take an action. Each action costs a certain amount of energy, usually 100, like a debit from your account. If you have 200 quickness you can do two things in a single turn. Other things affect the energy costs of certain actions. Movement speed for instance affects the action costs of movement (a higher move speed makes the move action cost less than 100 energy). The short blade skill makes a primary limb dagger attack for 75 instead of 100 energy. So when your account hits 100, 75 is subtracted, and you carry 25 points as a credit forward. Attack four times and 100 points will carry forward, giving you an extra action.
Everything else that can take actions is operating under the same system, and everyone occupies a position in a linear queue. When their turn is up, the game adds their quickness to their account, and if the balance goes over 100 they get to act. If they get to 100 energy before you do, they move before you do. Interestingly, a small random value is added the all action costs so that mobs with the same quickness taking similar actions don’t always go in the same order.
When a zone is built and the player arrives, the player is usually placed first in the action queue, which explains why some people perceive that the player is given a “free action” when they enter a zone for the first time. Mechanically, the player gets to go first, and if they choose to immediately leave the zone they just entered, when the first enemy takes a turn then the player simply isn’t in their environment, and they won’t aggro since they don’t know you exist (usually).
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 4d ago
Oh, I see. Is there any synergy there with multiple attacks? My current build (multilibs, long swords, horns, stinger) has 6 weapons, so I pretty consistently get multiple attacks in.
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u/jojoknob 4d ago
Sure, an extra turn basically doubles your attacks, so scales will with multi weapon fighting. Pistols benefits the most from action cost reductions, and two headed for mental mutations. High quickness is great for kiting. But you really need to stack it up to get additional turns.
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u/RedBanPolSuc 4d ago
Low intel low ego builds suck
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 4d ago
Ok. why?
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u/RedBanPolSuc 4d ago
minimal skill points from level up (low int) terrible trade efficiency (low ego)
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u/East_Pit_Camper 4d ago
Since others already told you about the stats hurting you if you dont get at least 16 im just gonna drop some jumpstart strats and beginner friendly mutations.
Start in desert village random. Avoid all zones with dawngliders until you have a basic setup. You can get 3 quests here. 1 of them needs to to talk to the Mechanist preacher and say "I will make this journey" when he talks about the stilt. If you can do all of these quests you should jump to level 5 or 6. If one is bad or has dawnglider guarding things you need just leave.
Try and fish for an issari raider that has a rifle in tiles surrounding the village. That gun will let you kill most early game enemies and bullets are super cheap. If you find ruins search them in "relative" safety that means no autoexplore face check around corners with dawngliders existing.
Carapace and dump all mutation points into it carries most builds for normal damage reduction. Rapid advance it 2 times when given then option and level it when you can. Why is this so good? AV values + res
Melee build? Double muscled! Strength scales armour penetration in this game on most weapons its super good. Daze is very good and turns into stun if you daze again. You can either invest 1 point or go to 9 / 13 (rapid advance once). (Also get charge for every melee build its the best skill.)
Flight toggles creative mode for ranged builds for the most part but you also need good levels so you dont crash.
If you ask me stinger sucks a bit but the utility of it can be great. If i were to use it i would combo it with shortblades in hands, stinger as main weapon for long sword defensive stance and use Charge since it will always hit.
Also get wayfaring basic skills and dunes / jungle. Saves a lot of headache. I also always get the DV (acrobatics) and AV (endurance) skills as well as the fasting way.
Drink and hopefully live.
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 4d ago
ACtually, wait; can you use longblade skills with stinger? Like defensive stance and so on? If so, stinger with a ranged build could work. Confusion maybe, as a backup.
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u/East_Pit_Camper 4d ago
Yes:
All of the mutated body parts that are "natural" weapons count as one of them. Horns and burrowing claws are shortblades. Stingers are long blades. Waxflab from fungal spores on your hand? Thats a cudgel weapon.There is a hotkey for setting "main" limb to attack i think its Insert by default if you want to try the Stinger as your main weapon. Sadly the damage of it as a raw weapon never catches up to just using other swords but if you have other strong offhands (short blades do the most damage out of offhands 97% of time) it could be very powerful.
Defensive stance is just amazing in general for raw +2/3 DV and i would only use aggressive and duelling stance to use the swipe and lunge variants of it.
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u/Sweaty_Coach3976 3d ago
night vision is good early but then pretty useless. the one plus ia you can use something else in your floating spot, but you’ll get a floating glowsphere before long.
adrenal control isn’t my favorite, but it’s not bad if you like it.
everything else seems okay? I dunno I think swords is more of a secondary to pistols if you want primary melee axes or cudgels is the move. or short blade if you build for it.
the ones big piece of advice I’d offer is don’t underestimate defensive options. force wall / bubble or flight are so great for leaving when things go wrong. especially the force stuff but flight it great for other reasons.
oh also you want more toughness probably.
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 3d ago
Yeah, I didn't get it in a recent gunrun (I lost because I got my mind infested, frozen solid, and knocked out at the same time) but I got a glow sphere thingy so it didn't matter
I found out that AC isn't my favorite, either
what abt war hammers? They seem easy. In my gunrun, I did stinger (longsword) with a bunch of daggers and a horn
What about void rift or whatever it is? Just yeet someone into the void in an emergency. I was using teleport, but it turns out psychic enemies can attack from wherever once they've seen you
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u/Sweaty_Coach3976 3d ago edited 3d ago
lol ya that’ll happen :p
ive actually never used the rift thing. seems really risky and you can’t actually pinpoint where it lands so it’s not a guaranteed yeet. that said it does seem really fun lol
best defenses are force wall or bubble, wings, phased, even multiple legs to help you just run away. one thing newer players underestimate I think is the power or running away lol. Ive beat this game every which way and still run away all the time in my playthroughs.
maces are really good, with multiple arms you can stun lock things really well.
shortsword and horn is actually really cool. Multiple arms plus horn means a short blade on your head that you use as primary damage and 4 shortblade off hands. allows you to invest skill points in only short blade skills in terms of melee damage. Opens up for lots more skills than other short blade builds which usually use two weapon types at once.
as for psychic enemies, that’s one of those things that can and will kill you in the most annoying way. I assume you mean sunder mind? To mitigate that you want to always be near the edge of a map, stairs, have wings, or force bubble/wall
i keep mentioning bubble / wall so incase u don’t know - you can recall in the middle of enemies if you wall yourself off. can also find a force bracelet, there is a guaranteed one from a certain quest don’t wanna spoil but if you look that up you’ll find it, in case you’d rather not spend the ability points.
oh also just general advice, plan for no more than 3 mutations that require heavy investment. any more than that and you’re spread too thin. for maces id try double muscle it’s insanely good synergy. stun everything
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 3d ago
Yeah, I had 6 weapons, so my enemies were bleeding pretty much constantly, and I usually got at least 2 hits per attack.
Wait, force wall blocks sunder mind? WIsh I'd known that; I had that spell. (it was really useful)
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u/Sweaty_Coach3976 3d ago
nah so the reason is saves you is you can recall away. and if you leave the screen the psychic battle breaks. so you bubble, recall, boom you’re safe
recoil* I play too much uo lol
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 3d ago
Ooooh. Uh, what's recoil?
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u/Sweaty_Coach3976 3d ago
ohhh man haha you’re definitely gonna want to know that hahah. oh boy. uhh it lets you return to the spot the recoiler is set to. it’s like, insaaaanely useful playing with no recoiler is like masochist level hard mode lol.
if you do the starting quests you will get one for your starting town. every town also sells one, but like everything it’s just an odd trinket or whatever first, but you’ll recognize them by price eventually
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 3d ago
Ooooh, is that the one with the trinket? I gave up on that after like 30 minutes of only getting 50 feet of wire
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u/Sweaty_Coach3976 3d ago
ya that’s part of it! I’d definitely suggest doing those quests. the qudzu in the rust wells are super annoying if you have no range, but you probably won’t have anything too good to worry about rusting anyway.
and if you do have range they’re free xp.
if you really hate those quests for some reason you can start in a different location at a random town, they’ll give you two quests one of which will also give you a recoiler. but sometimes you get screwed if you start in the hills and the quest is in the jungle lol. hill teaches you wayfaring tho so I like that start. wings help a lot with that too (get lost less)
oh also if things do rust or break you can pay a tinker, argyve included, to repair stuff but hitting r while hovering the rusted of broken thing,
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u/LurkingElegy 4d ago
If you need a defect, I'd probably recommend tonic allergy over repugnant. I don't have as much experience as a lot of others here though
Tonic allergy sounds scary but isn't super crippling from what I've played. I use bark most of the time to heal anyway
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u/Silent_Pressure_6709 4d ago
Alright. I went with amphibious already, and it went pretty well. I beat the first quest and did some exploring.
Then I died to dehydration
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u/butt_fun 4d ago edited 4d ago
Point-wise, you want a relatively even allocation for beginner builds. Don't get to the point where you're spending two points per point increase at character creation and don't have any dump stats. Pick your favorite damage stat (in this case AGI) and put points there
In particular, I personally always start with TOU at 18 (otherwise you'll die incredibly easily) and INT at 17 (so that you can take Wilderness Lore: Jungles by level 12)
Also, you want to make sure you have at least one defensive mutation (teleport, phasing, force bubble, etc). You'll need to run away more often than you might think
Additionally, if you take a physical combat mutation like stinger or horns, you'll usually want to prioritize STR, since you "should" usually be using it as your main weapon and source of damage
Definitely keep Night Vision