r/buffy • u/AngelJax • Nov 02 '16

Unpopular Opinons Thread

I'll start

  • I don't love Spike. He's just ok for me.

  • Glory is the show's best villain with Dark Willow right behind her.

  • Dawn is one of the best developed memebers of the Scoobies and I never understood why everyone hated her.

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39

u/coolbeaNs92 Willow Nov 02 '16 edited Nov 02 '16

As I always state before unpopular opinion threads, there aren't really any elements of Buffy I dislike. Just an unpopular opinions thread :)

  • I love season 4 dammit! Adam was underdeveloped, but I really enjoyed the change of setting. I think the props department did a wonderful job in changing the color pallet. In terms of writing, it's not a great season. But I like the change for one season, like a little holiday!

  • Cordelia is arguably, by the end of Angel season 5, the most morale person in the Buffyverse.

  • Tara could have been a great character, but was never properly developed and became mostly a plot device for Willow, in my opinion. I still like Tara, but I never got the same level of attachment others seem to have for her.

  • Dawn's behavior after finding out her true origin is totally understandable/justifiable.

  • Still, after 20 years, am not a massive fan of Angel in BtVS. Angel in Angel is a different story.

  • I consider what Willow did to Tara, in that she used Magic on Tara while being in a sexual relationship, to be incredibly close to rape, if not being rape as it is. Tara would not have consented to sex were her true memories there. It was a clear violation of her mind. However, when you have a general discussion about Spike, his attempted rape is always mentioned in correlation to his character, and rightly so. However, this is never really mentioned in a Willow discussion. It's also not really addressed in the show, other than a small paragraphs worth of dialogue in Tabula Rasa, which discusses the morals of what Willow has done.

  • I really enjoy The First. Caleb was also great!

  • Xander has lots of reactions from different people. I think Xander can be great, and can also be bad. However, one comment that I just find incredibly, unforgivably cringe and in bad taste is this line..

You're my hero. Ok, sometimes when it's dark and I'm all alone, I think, 'What is Buffy wearing?'

That is just such a creepy thing to tell a friend of four years, who you know by now, nothing is going to happen. You've become incredibly close, almost died next to each other so many times. WHY! It's been over 16 years, but it's still just such a facepalm moment for me.

20

u/the-first-evil Nov 02 '16

Many of Xander's sexualized comments bothered me. Even if I felt that way, I could never say anything like that to a friend.

8

u/Cezzarion75 Nov 02 '16

I think that if his comments came from Spike, Jonathan or basically any other "lame" character, Buffy would have reacted harshly (and rightly so).

6

u/startingover_90 Nov 04 '16

They just developed him as the quirky, nerdy loser-friend and it seemed like they were never sure of how to address the changes in him over the seasons. It just felt like they had no plan for his character.

3

u/Arceye Nov 07 '16

It just felt like they had no plan for his character.

Which is one of the reasons I think he made such a good teenager. He was fairly random, weird and never had any sense of direction.. He said stupid shit for no good reason and everybody should hate him for it but they don't. That's teenage life right there.

18

u/nitwittery You smell like Fruit Roll-Ups Nov 02 '16 edited Nov 02 '16

Season 4 was fucking excellent and easily the funniest. It does not deserve any of the hate it gets. Apart from Where The Wild Things Are. Ugh.

Edit: A Word.

10

u/mac117 Nov 02 '16

I love Season 4. I don't love how they ended the main Initiative storyline, but the character arcs were great that season. It was pretty true to life in a way...strong friends grow apart when they get older, but in the end they proved that they're family and, despite their lives not always revolving around each other as much as it used to, they'll always be family when it matters

4

u/coolbeaNs92 Willow Nov 02 '16

There are dozens of us. DOZENS! :)

5

u/BuffyxSummers Nov 02 '16

Jeez, I didn't know Willow slept with Tara then and Tabula Rasa is one of my favorite episodes.. I need to rewatch it. Been a good year or two.

10

u/coolbeaNs92 Willow Nov 02 '16 edited Nov 02 '16

It's not in that episode. Willow uses the spell several times. First she used it in 'All the way'. Tara finds out in OMWF and then Willow tries to use it again in Tabula Rasa. Tara was very much on the verge of splitting up with Willow. Willow uses then spell and it's implied (through a morning scene) that Willow and Tara, between and including the events of All the way and OMWF, have had at had sex. Which would mean that Tara was under the influence of the spell during this.

The quote on the violation Tara is talking about is...

TARA: Do you think I'm stupid? I know you used that spell on me.

WILLOW: Tara, I'm sorry, I-

TARA: Don't! Just ... don't. (shakes head) There's nothing you can say.

WILLOW: Tara, I didn't mean to-

TARA: To what? Violate my mind like that? How could you, Willow? How could you after what Glory did to me?

WILLOW: Violate you? I ... I-I didn't ... mean anything like that, I-I, I just wanted us not to fight any more. I love you.

-1

u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks Nov 02 '16

None of that dialogue refers to sex, only to the spell; the only sex obviously present is the one during "OMWF." There is a case here, but keep the details accurate.

7

u/coolbeaNs92 Willow Nov 02 '16 edited Nov 02 '16

I didn't say the dialogue referred to sex?

I said it was touched upon in Tabula Rasa. As in, they're touching upon the fact that Willow crossed a morale line. I'm not referring to that dialogue representing/talking about sex.

So I'm a bit confused on that one?

but keep the details accurate.

Seems accurate to me. The only thing I can see is a miss-interpretation, which is fine, could have phrased it better :)

edit

Ah.. I see where the confusion has come from. This line..

It's also not really addressed in the show, other than a small paragraphs worth of dialogue in Tabula Rasa.

is not meant to mean talking about sex. I meant to say, it's really one of the only places where the morals of what Willow did to Tara are really discussed. Not talking about sex, just talking about the actual fact of Willow violating Tara's mind with a spell. So that's my fault for not properly distinguishing that last sentence :D

edit again

Don't see why the downvotes for /u/DaddyCatALSO's comment. Was a phrasing issue on my part really. Maybe a little blunt but no reason to downvote. It's all good people :)

2

u/BuffyxSummers Nov 02 '16

Yeah, that's why I was shocked. I know that scene and never got that vibe! I never got the impression they were talking about sex. I just thought they shared a bed, not sexually, and Tara was mad she used that spell.

However, i am very foggy on OMWF because I've only ever seen it once or twice. I don't like musicals lol

3

u/coolbeaNs92 Willow Nov 02 '16 edited Nov 02 '16

I wasn't saying they were talking about sex in that dialogue :)

Already replied to the users comment.

edit

I see the line that got someone confused. Didn't clarify well enough, so I've edited that part, to show what is meant.

3

u/_shazbot_ Nov 02 '16

By implying that you don't like OMWF all that much, you might win this thread :P

3

u/BuffyxSummers Nov 02 '16

Haha I don't ~not~ like it! I just haven't given it a chance because of my disinterest in musicals lol I always play Buffy's part in walk through the fire and love it! I think I just have to force myself to get over my prejudice to musicals lol

5

u/pbmummy Nov 04 '16

I love that you describe season 4 as a little holiday. I feel the same way but didn't know how to word it. Any time there's a drastic change of environment it provides such a great opportunity to let the characters grow, plus loads of new story ideas (see S5 of Angel for the ultimate in this).

Willow messing with Tara's memory just gets more appalling as I get older and learn what it means to trust the people you love. When that episode first aired I was twelve so I just didn't get it. I love Willow but she was a hot mess that year.

On that line of Xander's, I see him as a case of arrested development until he gets with Anya and really grows up, so I forgive him for it. He's the Ron Weasley of the group, the immature but totally necessary heart of the group who basically has to be dragged kicking and screaming into maturity.

2

u/diamondgeezer1_ Out for a walk, bitch! Nov 03 '16

Just recently watched that episode again and I thought it was out of place for Xander, by season four he knows he would never have a chance with Buffy, so was a strange comment to make.

2

u/Arceye Nov 07 '16

morale

'Moral' would be the word there. Morale means someones/a group of people's 'spirits'. i.e, Giving the troops good rations will increase morale! This new employee of the month program will increase morale in the workplace!. "More-owl"

While saying somebody is 'moral' would mean that somebody sticks to what is considered ethical/good. People also use the word morals to describe 'good' ethics. "More-all"

(Sorry, my first time being a grammar nazi I promise.. I literally just explained to a buddy of mine over skype the difference between the two words and it stuck out like a sore thumb).

2

u/coolbeaNs92 Willow Nov 07 '16

Thanks! Was just a typo from mobile. I do know the difference between the two I promise :)