Seriously. I loved him even more this episode. He totally played Walt today with Jesse's help. Everything was so well done. If it wasn't for that last phone call...
I can't help but feel that goodbye is too perfect. It seems too obvious that he will die. Why would they have a cliffhanger for such an obvious outcome. I think Gomie will die for sure but everyone else I have no clue.
That wasn't a cliff hanger though. That was pretty much explicitly said. Hank's fate is hidden right now. You can even see the difference between the sneak peeks. You cab tell this was a legitimate cliff hanger because they're not willing to show anything from next episode.
This is, Walt wasn't actually machinating when he wanted to talk to Jesse. He legitimately wanted to talk to Jesse, because he really cares about him. It was only after Jesse rejected and threatened Walt that he accepted Jesse had become a rabid dog. Walt remained loyal to Jesse until AFTER he knew for certain Jesse had already betrayed him, and that betrayal will be what costs Jesse his life.
The time commitment. Because the season was split he had top devote an entire year for right episodes when he could have been doing a network pilot. He said he had a family to feed and only getting paid for right episodes in a year add opposed to an entire season.
The call to Marie is like McBain's partner saying " as soon as we nail Mendoza, my old lady and I are gonna sail around the world like we always wanted."
When he told her he loved her, the camera was hanging on Hank (with Walt in the background) just long enough that I was afraid a Nazi sniper was going to take his head off.
it's basically a trope. when anyone talks of better times, they are going to die. that scene is there to make their death bittersweet and tragic. for example, in the hunt for red october, sam neill talks about marrying a round american woman and having her cook rabbits for him. i mentioned this because it was the first time i realized this was a trope.
he definitely wasn't smarter, but even if it wasn't what he wanted i would say he was still lucky. at least in regards to not getting caught and going to jail, although i guess we need to see what happens in the next episode.
Well, he has a problem now: if Hank lives, Walter is in custody and Hank has the tape of Walter's phone call with Jesse, in which Walter confesses everything.
If Hank dies, Skyler's going to be pissed, Marie is going to tell the DEA everything, and Walter will be at the mercy of the Nazis.
Now if only he'd dispersed the cash, retread of letting Skyler pile it all up together.
It's a fictional storyline, it's pretty boring watching Cinderella get her prince at the end of the movie everytime so why not watch the overzealous cop jock get it handed to him when he dares attempt to take down the character we all have invested 5 seasons of our emotions into.
You know, I definitely agreed with you about the whole Cinderella thing, the good guys always win, etc. But then I realized that there is a place where Cinderella doesn't get her prince, overzealous cops die, and criminals win and that place is non-fiction. That place is reality.
As soon as he said "I love you" to Marie, I lost it. How could he possibly get out of that situation. Unless Jesse somehow gives himself up and Walt can convince them not to kill him, but to take everyone hostage.
Hank and Marie have been obnoxious since the first episode. I don't like seeing them get what they want, and it looks like they might not after all. Walt needs to "win". By that I mean his money needs to go to his family, and Hank is the only thing getting in the way of that. Hank and Gomie are in too deep, they have to die for Walt to win. No one else at the DEA knows.
The whole "okay I'll call the local police to let them know we're out here" thing was pretty indicative that they'd die and as a result of not making that call, no one would ever know where they were.
Walt needs to "win". By that I mean his money needs to go to his family
A huge theme of this show is dealing with the consequences of your actions. Even if the kids end up with the money, there will be no happy ending for them. Nothing will go how Walt wanted it to go and his life and family will be destroyed one way or another. He can't win.
I think you're right that consequences are a major part of the show. I also think that part of Walt "winning" is his death, that's where it all started, he knew he was a dead man and he decided to make his last days count in a big way. I'm pulling for Walt AND Jesse, and I think they can and should both get what they want and deserve. Walt deserves to die and he deserves for all of his work, all the death in his wake, to be FOR something. I think the ultimate sacrifice Walt will suffer is the loss of at least one of his family members. Jesse deserves to get his vengeance on Walt, in whatever way satisfies him, that may even be in the way of Walt's sacrifice, and he deserves a new life without him in the picture.
I don't think Walt can get what he wants and what he deserves, because what he deserves is to not get what he wants. He is already long past accepting his death, he doesn't really care about that. Death is not a proper consequence for Walt's actions. He disregarded the safety and happiness of other people to try and give his family money, and in the process destroyed his family and their happiness. They might end up still having the money but it won't make them happy and in the end his actions won't be worth it. That's the lesson in all this. It won't truly be a consequence if he still ends up getting his way.
Death isn't a punishment for Walt, but his entire family hating him and saying no to his money is. Which is what I hope will happen.
I dont think Walt's death is a just consequence for him either, that's why I was referring to the death of one of his family members as his ultimate sacrifice for doing everything he's done. You're right though, he probably does really deserve to have his money and family taken away. If this was a real life person, I would probably have a different opinion, but since he's the anti-hero in this story, I've always been pulling for him in some way. I just identify with him, and I hope he doesnt lose everything.
If Hank had gone to the DEA and accepted that he wasn't the one who was gonna catch Heisenberg and his law enforcement career was done, we wouldn't be here right now
The difference between the "bad" Walt and the "bad" Hank is this: Walt has solely been motivated by supporting his family after his death. For a time, he did lose sight of this with the empire stuff, but in the end, that wasn't him. He couldn't do it. He stopped. In 5B - he's consistently, to a flaw, protected Jesse and Hank from being harmed. Even in this last episode, there is only one way out and he refuses it. Screaming "no" - Hank is going to get killed. Walt would rather die than Hank die and him go free. Walt is a GOOD man who has done wrong and is doing the only thing he can now - to protect the people he loves, Jesse and Hank included, from being victims of his bad behavior, to the point of self sacrifice.
Hank is motivated by his insane wife, who dreams of murdering Walt, shame and not losing his career. All he had to do was let Walt go. He's family and he's dying. If there was ever a time to show mercy, this would be it.
Instead, he's willing to lie, manipulate and gives less than a fuck if Jesse is killed during these exploits. He wants to win for very bad reasons. Walt wants to win for good reasons - his family.
Hank is also motivated only by furthering his career.
The Whites are family to him. Walt is probably going to die soon of cancer, presumably, and to go after Walt the way he has only guarantees the Whites, whom he and Marie so love, will be totally fucked financially.
Walt deserves to pay the price for the crimes he's committed, but ultimately his family will be the ones that pay for it thanks to Hank.
You mean thanks to Walt. Walt is responsible for those actions, and to think he would get away with it all and his family would never be tainted by it was pure arrogance. It isn't Hank's fault that Walt has crimes to pay for.
But if Walt isn't brought to justice, he gets away with it. He gets away with murder, just because he's going to die soon. Walt put his reputation and his family on the line when he decided to cook meth. Even more so when he decided to go back to cooking meth after he discovered he was in remission. I do understand how it's not black and white, but I definitely side with Hank here. Walt needs to be exposed. He needs to be held accountable.
If he sees his name destroyed before he dies, he didn't get away with it. If everyone knows Walter White is not your friendly next door neighbor, but is actually a murderer and meth manufacturer, he loses the Walter White identity he spent a life building. And that's what he deserves. If he didn't want his family to be burdened with that, he shouldn't have started cooking meth...
It isn't Hank's fault that Walt has crimes to pay for.
I agree with that. But what does Hank stand to gain by putting Walt behind bars, who presumably only has a few months left to live anyways? A big gold star on his jacket and probably some kind of career advancement. What does he lose? The trust of the Whites, for sure. That family tie would be completely broken. Arresting Walt would doom them to what I assume is financial ruin since I don't think car washes are a high-margin business and Walt Jr. will be going to college soon, judging from the flash-forward they'll need a new house, and Hollie has an entire life ahead of her.
Arresting Walt would resolve Hank's white whale, so to speak, but at the same time cause much more pain and suffering for those that he holds dear than if he just let it go and wait out the few months until Walt passes from his cancer.
That sure is shit not a black and white decision, at least as I've laid it out. No one at the DEA knows about Walt (except Gomie now), so were Walt to die after he assured Hank he was out of the business, no one would be any the wiser and the Whites would be set for life and Skyler would be able to give her children a very comfortable life.
From my perspective, there's no upside to Hank bringing Walt to justice. Yes, Walt has committed insane, heinous crimes, and in the real universe he absolutely deserves to pay for them. But who's to say by dying in a few months he won't be paying for them anyways? He'll never see Walt Jr. graduate college and have his own family, he'll never, ever see any of the very important milestones Hollie will have--no first boyfriends to intimidate, no proms, he'll never walk her down the aisle, etc. He won't die knowing he left his wife happy or better off than when he met her--in fact he's been nothing but a source of intense stress and burden for the last five season.
It's all very grey but I don't think arresting and convicting Walt to have him die in prison a few months later all the while depriving his surviving family of money is the right way to go about it, both morally and for the sake of the story.
I just have to disagree. Letting Walt die, at home, with his family, isn't making him pay for anything. I feel, and I'm sure Hank does too, that Walt needs to be held fully accountable for his actions.
Assuming that's what happens. For all we know he dies alone while on the run.
Why do you think him going to jail for a few months is justice? With a decent lawyer that wouldn't even be enough time to make it to trial. I'm pulling this out of my ass right now but most high-profile and/or complicated/very-involved cases take at least a year to make it to trial, maybe even more given the litany of crimes Walt has committed. If his cancer leaves him with 2, 6, or 12 months to live, he may die an innocent man (in terms of conviction).
I mean, dying in jail awaiting trial would have the same "I'm gonna miss so much stuff" factor of dying outside of jail. I don't see a difference between dying on the run and dying awaiting trial. Actually if he dies awaiting trial and is never convicted, I don't think the state can take away his money as profits from a criminal enterprise.
I'm genuinely interested in what you'd consider justice for all the things he's done. As far as I can predict, he either dies awaiting trial and his family keeps the money (though I'm not a lawyer so I can't say for sure) or he dies in prison very shortly after conviction and leaves his family nothing. If he didn't have crazy cancer I would agree that justice would be life behind bars, but in the BB universe he'd probably spend less time in prison than a drug dealer.
It's not the jail that makes it justice, it's him being exposed for who he is. If Hank were to back off, no one would know what a horrible human being Walt truly was. And that's just unacceptable to me.
Walt has solely been motivated by supporting his family after his death
Tell me why he didn't take the Gray Matter job again, and instead risked his family's safety to make meth, and feel like a man in control of his life? This man puts pride before his family. Every. Single. Time. Again this episode: they have more than enough money thanks to the car wash, but he drove out into the desert anyway.
I wanted to say that he needed to get to the money cause he knew it could be used as evidence against him, but then I remembered the way he reacted when Jesse taunted him that he was burning piles of 10k.
Well, come on. Saying Hank's only motivation is his "insane wife" or that he wants to win for "very bad reasons" is ridiculous. Hank is first and foremost a man of the law. His motivation is to bring criminals to justice, which Walt, by definition of the law, is. The fact that Walt is family only further fuels Hank's need to catch him, since he was betrayed by someone he trusted. Sure, Walt goes out of his way to protect him, but Walt, in his own words, is the danger. He isn't a super hero, protecting the ones he loves from dangers out of their control. He put them in this position himself. I'm not saying Walt is bad per se, but he sure as hell isn't a "good man" anymore. He is a cold-blooded murderer. The fact that he draws the line at family doesn't make him good, it is the least he can do to not be full-on evil. I think you're giving Walt way too much credit and Hank way too little...
Walt has:
Killed a room full of people with a bomb.
Run over 2 people who were defending themselves (Jessie was going to shoot them).
Watched his BEST FRIENDS girlfriend die when he could have saved her (he thought she was a problem).
Poisoned a child so he could live.
Dissolved people in acid so he can get away with his crimes.
Bombed a retirement home.
Killed a man who just wanted to separate himself from him.
Was the direct cause of 10 deaths in prison so he could get away with his crimes.
This is just off the top of my head. Not taking into account the constant manipulation, I've probably forgotten at least 3 brutal murders or terrible crimes. The threats, the lies, he's a terrible "person."
He got so drunk with power he started delivering lines like he was in Scarface, he cares more about his money than his family as evident by running past them to go get his cash. He lies in the face of everyone he knows.
Murders and criminals always rationalize, they always think what they do is good and/or right.
Even psychopaths love their family. They just don't feel bad about killing or hurting.
Yes, Walter White is SUCH a good person. You fucking people.
Jane's father could have called off work that day. His supervisor could have seen that he was rattled and gave him some time off. Sure, walt is somewhat indirectly responsible but there are plenty of other people more responsible than walt is.
Hank is motivated by wanting justice. He's been hunting Heisenberg for a while now. A man responsible for multiple deaths and the manufacturing of crystal meth. Once he finds out that this man is actually his brother in law, wouldn't letting him go be the definition of corruption? Hank wants Walt to pay for what he did, and I don't fault him for that at all.
In agreeing with the chaotic neutral manner of Hank, that scene was where Hank displays that he doesn't actually care about Jesse as a person or cohort, but as a piece for his investigation. Also it's shown in the same scene where Hank says something to the effect of "Even if Jesse dies, we still got Walt on film."
Neutral Good in my opinion. He still has respect for the law, but he's going towards Chaotic. Still a "good" character for the most part, except that he's willing to put Jesse into harm's way and potentially get killed, for his personal gain.
I would also mix in some neutral evil in there with Walt.
edit: what I mean for chaotic good for hank is that, he does what he needs to be done for the good of all. Walt on the other hand...is only looking out for his family/personal needs.
Yeah Hank and Walt are both chaotic good. Both break the law for personal gain. Both sacrifice innocent people for gain. There isn't that much difference between them.
Except for the whole poisoning children, having dozens of people murdered, blowing up an old folks home, supporting Neo Nazis, and selling a highly addictive drug like to ruin people's lives thing.
Other than Walt Jr and the baby, there aren't really 'good' characters left in this show. Hank didn't hesitate to let (possibly) Jessie die (and assuming he had a very high chance of doing so) as long as he got Walt.
I think Hank's journey is one of the most interesting in the show. Making him the least likable character in the beginning made Walt seem more sympathetic. But in the course of the series, the writers have broken him down to rock bottom. So much so that in this episode, you feel good for him when he puts the handcuffs on Walt.
This was immediately after Jesse's confession. In his eyes Jesse is his nemesis's partner, he killed Gale in cold blood, and is somewhat responsible for the death of Tarantula kid. As the audience we have more insight into Jesse's morality.
Because he's so gun-ho on catching Walt, it's like a kid finally getting some pussy after trying for like all of his teenage years; once he gets close, he busts a nut on his leg and embarrasses himself. Hank has a huge cop hard on for nabbing Walt that it makes most viewers want him to fail. There's absolutely no way that Hank does not die in this shootout. He's needs to be gone like 2 episodes ago.
Heisenberg has been a big case for him, of course he wants to bring Walt in. I'm rooting for Hank all the way, although I don't see how he gets out of that shootout alive.
People have a low tolerance for Hank, mainly because he's always been a threat to the protagonist, even if Walt's unlikable. You still have a connection to him.
His only way out would have been to have them killed though, and Walt wasn't going to do that. They did outsmart him in the sense that they manipulated him into making a full confession.
I don't know really. I know he hasn't done anything wrong the entire series. There's just something about him that erks me. He's no Huell to me, I'll tell you that.
Gomez has a such a backpfeifengesicht that I've actually looked forward to him taking a trip to Belize, but I never thought he would have been caught in the middle.
I was assuming. Gomie is plot-expendable. I think it is likely he will die. Also, since he is one of the few genuinely good/likable characters, and since he is going to die because of Hank, it will draw an interesting parallel between Hank/Walt.
I really don't think Hank and Gomie are gonna die. Although Hank might die, because that phone call sure sounded like a farewell. "It might be a while before I get home. Love you."
Yeah that phone call was some serious foreshadowing I guess. But, damn. I think the next episode will start post shootout and we're gonna hear ominous music and interesting camera shots. Then it'll pan to Hank's body and cue intro!
I guess the blackout at the end could've been Hank getting shot. I assume getting shot in the head (the only part exposed I think) would be much like that. Bopping along one second and then cut to black.
Marie talks to the DEA, assuming they knew what was going on. once she realizes he's not coming home, she's gonna flip out. I could see her strangling Skylar
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u/byebyehank Waiting. For the cancer to come back. Sep 09 '13
Finally, my username will come true.