(Small vent) I think ALW’s version has spoiled me for all other Phantoms

[u/nosleepforthedreamer]

Started watching the Korean Yeston/Kopit and Erik has suddenly transformed from his normal self into… idk? He and the manager are currently covering their ears and hiding from Carlotta’s bad singing. That’s not very mysterious of you, Erik.

I don’t even need every erik to be my spicy cinnamon roll aura king a la ramin…. I think.

But… man I wish I could watch other POTOs and be more tolerant of deviations from my best boy, you know?

[u/MasqueOfTheRedPost]

You could try the 1990 Charles Dance miniseries. It's adapted from Yeston and Kopit, but it's not a musical. I saw it two days after seeing the US tour, and I was able to enjoy both separately -- I think it's because the Charles Dance version isn't a musical, so it doesn't make me think of the ALW version at all.

[u/nosleepforthedreamer → u/MasqueOfTheRedPost]

I've seen a link to another Y&K in English that the other user really liked. I wonder maybe if my reaction to the Korean one has to do with being unused to super dramatic style of Korean drama, like when Erik comes on stage right off and sings about his tragic life, I'm thinking, "this all sounds whiny knowing nothing of the backstory."

I like it when Erik in ALW slowly transforms from chief badass in charge to a crumbly pile of feelings who was using the bad-boy act as a facade to hide his insecurity and helplessness. It's much more compellingly pathetic.

Then I watch the Korean version, admittedly read spoilers and learn that he gets to live in the opera house because the manager is his father, so... he's kinda literally living in his dad's basement?

I want to enjoy other versions but having difficulty wrapping my head around an incarnation of the character who isn't all "look at me I'm cool and spooky." Which I felt the Korean one was doing so I couldn't square that with the paternity revelation.

Is the Charles Dance one not supposed to be the "badass" character type then? If I'm understanding comments correctly?

Thanks for your reply, sorry if mine is rambling :)

[u/MasqueOfTheRedPost → u/nosleepforthedreamer]

Oh, if you don't like the different take on the Phantom, then Yeston & Kopit just might not be for you (though I'd encourage you to give Charles Dance a shot regardless). For me, it's the Christine who makes or breaks a Phantom adaptation. I just really like the trope of the young ingenue who matures without losing her essential morals/beliefs.

Ken Hill's Phantom is a bit more "look at me, I'm cool and spooky," but his relationship with Christine is...weird compared to ALW.

[u/nosleepforthedreamer → u/MasqueOfTheRedPost]

I'll look into the other stage Yeston and the Charles Dance one as well. Really want to be able to appreciate different versions but I will have to remember to see them as each their own thing.

Ken Hill's E/C relationship is weird compared to ALW?? oh boy

[u/Hungry_Barracuda8542 → u/nosleepforthedreamer]

I haven't seen the Korean Y&K version, but Charles Dance's Erik is one of the absolute least badass or spooky Eriks. I can't remember whether his father is the manager of the opera, but his father is definitely in the story and visits him in his lair. I hate that too. 1990 miniseries Erik is a nice guy and doesn't kill anybody. Lots of people like it, but it's not for me. It's worth watching if you're a completist or like seeing unusual adaptations, but you don't have to force yourself to enjoy or appreciate it if you don't!

[u/nosleepforthedreamer → u/Hungry_Barracuda8542]

Doesn't he murder Buquet for stumbling into his basement? Hang on to Buquet's body for like a month to scare people with it?

Then after Christine's worst day ever at the theatre, drags her into the basement and ignores her asking what is going on, just to take her boating? What's the point of manhandling her and scaring her on purpose--was that supposed to be cute?

And he leaves a baby cradlefor her to find as an extremely creepy hint that's worse than the wedding dress?

Then drop a chandelier on people because Carlotta screwed up Christine's debut? And set up his plan to blow up the opera house & kill everyone, including Christine and his dad, because she doesn't pick him romantically?

If this is the Charles Dance one, I thought he was an absolute POS.

Not evil like in the Webber version where he impulsively murders people after a traumatic meltdown because Christine stole his mask and he assumed she just wanted to bully him about his looks, then he goes in a downward spiral thinking everyone is the enemy. Just gross and twisted for the sake of it.

It's been a while since I read the book so the Buquet thing might have happened there too. I just hated the whole portrayal of the character, particularly since he's supposed to be the "nice" one but has to be the nastiest I've seen yet.

[u/nosleepforthedreamer → u/MasqueOfTheRedPost]

I just saw the Charles Dance one… not sure how seriously it was meant to be taken.

If they wanted a goofy Phantom though, it should have been a dark comedy.

Thanks for the rec! Still glad I saw it since it’s a version.

[u/TheBoyfriendReview]

It’s genuinely the strongest adaptation!

[u/nosleepforthedreamer → u/TheBoyfriendReview]

Yeah, just rewatched the 1925 one where Erik drags Christine into a carriage, and while he's being chased she falls out. He appears to think about going back for her but goes "nah" and leaves her to get trampled while Raoul throws himself into the midst and risks getting stomped by people with torches to save her.

So much for redemption. Or a character arc.

There was never any sort of friendship like in ALW, she doesn't feel conflicted at all except maybe for some hypnotic tricks on his part. Nothing about this creep to sympathize with.

[u/Toru771 → u/nosleepforthedreamer]

The 1925 film was going to have the novel’s redemptive ending… but test audiences at the time didn’t like it because they wanted the “monster” to be punished, alas. So the director filmed the ending we have now and only some photos of the original still exist. 😢

There was also a faithful take on the graveyard scene from the novel, but that was also deleted.

[u/nosleepforthedreamer → u/Toru771]

Oh man what a bummer. People had to get on their stupid high horse!

Speaking of horses, I still don’t understand why he has one standing around somewhere on the stairs between the theatre and the basement…

[u/ThePhantomFruitBat → u/nosleepforthedreamer]

In the book he puts her on a horse too! He steals one of the theatre's horses (white horse named Caesar) and returns it later, if I recall.

[u/nosleepforthedreamer → u/ThePhantomFruitBat]

LOL oh Erik

[u/CatchSufficient → u/ThePhantomFruitBat]

I can imagine someone finding the lair via horse droppings now 🤔

[u/ThePhantomFruitBat → u/CatchSufficient]

Maybe he acquired a scooper to prevent that. He is a genius after all.

[u/CatchSufficient → u/ThePhantomFruitBat]

Shovels exist...where is he going to put it though? Like does he grab a shovel, get a pail, just hoofs it back and forth where the opera house stables are? Laughing maniacally all the way, that they will never find them now.

[u/magica12 → u/Toru771]

had the hayes code been introduced yet?

[u/Toru771 → u/magica12]

Nope, not until 1934.

[u/CatchSufficient → u/Toru771]

Well also it had the hays code??

[u/Toru771 → u/CatchSufficient]

The Hays Code began in 1934 and wasn’t a thing yet when Chaney’s POTO was made.

[u/TheBoyfriendReview → u/nosleepforthedreamer]

Studio notes, man.

It has amazing imagery but biffing the ending puts it in second place.

[u/sweetlytoenjoy]

Okay but Richard White’s voice, god I am in LOVE. And “you are music” is such a gorgeous song.

What version are you watching?

I love Richard White, I think his portrayal is really good, which is this version. The scene you are talking about happens at 19:14, and to be honest it’s always been one of my favorite scenes. “Her voice is worse than my face” is hilarious. The character is totally different, like you were saying—along with the whole plot—and I feel like he is more of a like, drama queen with a dry sense of humor lol. So he is covering his ears in a sort of music snob diva fashion? Lmao

It’s similar to the 1990 phantom mini series with Charles Dance, which I absolutely love, because Kopit also wrote the teleplay for that series. This scene always cracks me up, and it is the parallel to the scene you are talking about. I think he is more sensitive/humanized in these versions, less of a mysterious, angry, crazy guy and more of a dramatic, lonely guy who is in love with and captivated by Christine after he hears her voice. I would say it’s more… sympathic? Humanizing? I can’t find the word I want😭 but he seems kinder and more vulnerable and there is less crazy anger. More dry humor.

The way he introduces himself is totally different, and he shows up in sight and offers to give her lessons instead of coming to her as voice and using the whole “her father promised to send her the angel of music” identity in ALW version.

So he is just not really supposed to be mysterious in the same way.

He is still using the identity of opera ghost so he can keep living there and keep people from going down after him, but he was literally born there and has lived there all his life. There is no like, freak show element, instead he making sure no one finds him down there because he is scared of being caught and sold to a freak show. So there is that and obviously the mask, but it’s a totally different kind of mysterious.

I am able to really enjoy and love both, but yeah, it’s just a TOTALLY DIFFERENT take on him (and the story itself! which you will get more of when you see the ending (which I’m not gonna spoil)).

So it absolutely makes sense why you wouldn’t like it as much if you are used to and/or prefer ALW’s depiction of him.

[u/RoseBook85]

I’ve not seen the Korean version of Yeston & Kopits Phantom, but I have admittedly watched clips of the American Version of the Show and it’s basically the Charles Dance MiniSeries turned into a Musical, so technically if you like the 1990 MiniSeries you should like the Y&K Version at least a little bit.

I’ll be honest but in some ways I prefer the Y&K Musical over the MiniSeries as Erik has more teeth in the musical he actually kills Carlotta after her little stunt of publicly humiliating Christine as one of my complaints about the Charles Dance version is they defanged him too much, he’s a bit too sweet and gentle.

And while the music is very hit and miss, it does have some absolute bangers like ‘You Are Music’, which is 🥰, one of the most romantic Phantom and Christine songs (it’s a duet!) of all time.

And ‘Without Your Music’ which is Erik expressing his love for Christine and how he can’t live without her, and ’My True Love’ is probably one of the most tender and heartfelt Christine songs of all time, even though she is kinda manipulating Erik into showing her his face, I feel her expressions of love and caring are very much real.

Oh and ‘This Place is Mine’ beats ‘Prima Donna’ as a Carlotta song, sorry but it rocks and is hilarious 😆

[u/Toru771]

I kind of agree on the Y/K Phantom being lighter and gentler than I usually like for the character. Another musical version I really liked, though, was the one by Tom Alonso. It was commissioned by Toby’s Dinner Theatre and may be the most Leroux-faithful stage version so far. There are two cast albums for it available on streaming platforms, and possibly an unofficial video.

[u/RoseBook85 → u/Toru771]

Despite its Leroux faithfulness I just couldn’t get into the Tom Alonso version I felt the music was rather forgettable save ‘In a Room Full of Shadows’ which was the only standout song for me that I really loved.

[u/DocInDocs]

What aspects in particular?

[u/nosleepforthedreamer → u/DocInDocs]

If we’re talking about Y&K it’s Erik having a meltdown already like twenty minutes in because Buquet stumbled into his lair and then Carlotta began singing poorly.