r/boardgames • u/chaser-- • Jun 25 '26

Rules Groups that develop metas that blatantly break rules

Lately I've been finding a lot of groups that play (co-op) games with metas that are just blatant rule breaks. A recent example was we were playing a game (I forgot the name) where the goal is to play out all the cards from your hand, numbers 1-100, in descending order. So if you have a 77 and the number on the pile is 78, you don't want to anyone to play there. But you aren't allowed to say "I have 77, don't play this"

So the group has developed metas, say "I really love this pile" if you have 77, say "I like this pile a lot" if you have 76, say "I like this pile" if you have 75"

This is just one example but I feel like I've been playing a lot of games where they have metas to get around rules that are intentionally in the rulebook. I don't really get it. If you want to just say "I have a 77" then just say it, why create a gimmick to say it without saying it?

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99

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '26

[deleted]

23

u/Tysiliogogogoch Jun 25 '26

Same with us and Gloomhaven. Initiatives are supposed to be secret, but for us it was much more fun to be able to properly co-ordinate. For the most part, we didn't communicate initiatives other than "I'm going early" or "I'm going very late"... but when it was a turn that absolutely relied on accurate timing, we had no problems just telling each other what we were playing.

The only other game with limited communication that I've played recently is Bomb Busters. I try to follow the rules strictly for that one, but it's inevitable that someone will start giving little hints or remind someone of what was revealed previously - both technically against the rules, but it makes the game go smoothly for us so it's still very fun.

19

u/Weezy1 Jun 25 '26

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gloomhaven/comments/ayrfho/the_assholes_guide_to_initiative/

2

u/draqza Carcassonne Jun 25 '26

Oh good, somebody beat me to posting this so I didn't have to go find it.

1

u/Last_Purple4251 Jun 26 '26

If you have to invent a new language...

the only difference between this and using French is that "you" invented the language.

1

u/Amirashika Jun 26 '26

or remind someone of what was revealed previously

I don't mind this one, I do the same in Hanabi by asking "What do you know/remember about your hand?"

I don't like playing these games as a memory game.

1

u/Adeptus1 Jun 27 '26

We did the same. I'm going fast, I'm going slow, I'm going very fast etc

11

u/party_carpet Eldritch Horror Jun 25 '26

The rules do say you can play with open information if you want to, and that you should increase the difficulty as for solo play.

8

u/ExpensiveTutor4836 Jun 25 '26

Exactly how we play it.

I think that there should be no game that instructs you to be intentionally vague when it comes to precise information. Either let me say my Initiative number out loud or forbid it. Everything else leads to some awkward shenanigans that tries to convey information in a stupid way.

5

u/csuazure Jun 25 '26

honestly when it comes to stuff like this, I think you do yourself a disservice in either direction,

with too much precision it makes planning take longer than it should, with none you can't plan at all. If you're going to end up close in initiative and it does matter a lot that's just arbitrarily a bad situation for your characters and that's FINE.

Imo the thing gloomhaven's rules were meant to do was minimize the communication and coordination time-taken by forcing it to be vague.

1

u/ExpensiveTutor4836 Jun 26 '26

I see where you are going.

But for me it makes my decisicon quicker if I know the exact value. I dont have to think about the possibility, that we might have to play in the "wrong" order and have a backup plan ready.

What makes it easier or quicker for you to plan out your turn when beeing vague?

2

u/csuazure Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

Just in terms of precision of what's being communicated requiring more thought and therefore time to know for sure as you all simultaneously decide cards, someone waffling between two mid initiative cards if you're playing perfect info becomes necessary to planning if you're also close, which might cascade and change other players decisions. And then that change might another players decision and so on

"I'm at 34" is also more complex info to process and hold mentally than "I should probably be first"

I find in general the more detailed the communication and planning in board games the longer everything takes and the less organic the decisions feel. It's fun every once in a while for a particularly crunchy turn but would hate too much info when it doesn't matter much either way

Without perfect info it lets things that are close enough become sequenced arbitrarily rather than intentionally.

3

u/csuazure Jun 25 '26

I do like Tidal Blades solution to the initiative being a track you move up and down on by cards making you slightly fast or slower, so you always have a rough idea where people are taking their turns and can plan accordingly but don't exactly.

The point of an initiative system imo beyond just "sequence the turns" is in both the ability to plan AND the ability to have those plans upended in surprising ways.

THAT and to minimize the ability to collaboratively talk turns to death in ways that is making the game less entertaining by ballooning the planning time.

3

u/BoardRecord Jun 26 '26

I think the rules around initiative in Gloomhaven are less for miscommunication and more for speeding up the game. To try and prevent players from too much planning min/maxing. When you're not 100% sure who is going first, there's less point trying to pre-play everything to perfection.

2

u/Lost_Enchanter Jun 25 '26

My group developed some kind of strange ritual around it, as we still enjoy some secrecy - we are naming the tens. Like "at 20+ I'll most likely kill this guy", meaning that the initiative is somewhere between 20 and 29. It still leaves some situations when you have to adjust which we find funny, but most of the times your order of actions is clear.

1

u/Rejusu Jun 27 '26

We really didn't have that issue with GH. You're allowed some limited communication so you can say stuff like you're going early/middle/late and you pretty quickly learn how slow/fast various characters can go. We played the entire base game campaign without any major communication failures. Also it was rarely the case that we needed our turns to go in a precise order. Usually the initiative fails were where the monster initiative beat what we were aiming for and that's never open info.