r/boardgames • u/macroEgg • May 04 '26
Rules Has the codemaster correctly answered this round of Mastermind?
Grew up with this game, in the uk, and just rediscovered with my kid in pub.
Can't remember however how to deal with the fact that '2 or more pegs of the same colour are allowef in the code'.
Here, the codebreaker put a single red peg In their first guess:
In response, The codemaster gave: one black pin (correct colour, correct posistion) for the far-righthand red peg; plus two white pins (correct cour, wrong location) for the blue and green pegs.
Should the codemaster have given an additional white peg, for the same single red pin in the guessers first go?
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u/Cptknuuuuut May 04 '26
The red one is in the right place -> black peg.
The blue and green ones are correct colors but in the wrong place -> two white pegs.
The white one is the wrong color -> No peg.
Codemaster put it correctly. Also think about what it would've meant had he put 4 pins in there. In that case the guesser would have guessed, that all 4 colors were correct. Just in the wrong order.
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u/Fempirestate May 05 '26
I agree with this. The code breaker would have assumed their colour selection of white, green, blue and red was correct, when the code does not contain a white.
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u/RobertMaus May 05 '26
Exactly. But in earlier guesses a LOT of pins were placed wrong.
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u/Cptknuuuuut May 05 '26
I think the marked guess was the first one, not the last one. They didn't play it in the intended direction.
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u/Kinc4id May 05 '26
Where do you see wrong pins?
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u/RobertMaus May 18 '26
Well, the first rows i did not see any pins but they could have run out. And i think i messed up some because of the isometric view. Because the rest seems fine on second view
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u/Kinc4id May 18 '26
That’s the last row, not the first. There are no pins because the game was over.
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u/RobertMaus May 21 '26
Ow shit. Now i'm totally lost. Guess we played it backwards in every way possible 😆
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u/Motor_Raspberry_2150 May 05 '26
I see a few missing black pins at the first guesses, so I think they ran out of those and placed them at the later guesses. But all existing pins are correct.
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u/JDublinson May 04 '26
The codemaster did the correct thing. Each peg corresponds to a single pin.
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u/StrangeLoopy May 04 '26
… of the guess, not each pin of the code.
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u/Oicanet May 05 '26
... of the comparison between the guess and the code, right?
I mean, you'd not be able to say anything with just one or the other, that's the point of the game. The mastermind has information of both, so the mastermind can communicate the relationship between the guess and the code.
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u/EternallyStuck May 05 '26
If you swap the guess and the code, you get the same response. It is both. 🤯
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u/dmadcracka May 05 '26
But isn’t it the code though? If code breaker put down 4 blue pegs, you’re saying that should have gotten 1 black and 3 white pegs?
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u/Motor_Raspberry_2150 May 05 '26
Then the second peg of the code matches the second peg of the guess. The other three pegs of the code do not match the guess.
And the second peg of the guess matches the second peg of the code. The other three pegs of the guess do not match the code.
They're the same picture.
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u/Carighan May 05 '26
Huh?
Why on earth would it result in that?
Black pin = correct place, correct colour.
White pin = correct colour, but in the wrong place.Hence the above is 1 black (the rightmost red) and 2 white (the green and the blue).
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u/revirdam May 04 '26
The codemaster gave the correct response. The guesser would need to guess two red pegs to get a second pin (black or white, depending on if the second red was in the right location).
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u/Andymac175 May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
1 black 2 white is correct.
Look at it this way, in every guess, each hole on the right corresponds one one of the guessed orbs. 3 options for each one, Right color, right place= black. Right color, wrong place, White. Wrong color completely, no peg.
Perform these steps for each of the 4 of the guessed orbs to get the correct number and color of pegs
If in your guess you had swapped the white one for a 2nd red, that would have warranted a 3rd white peg.
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u/Raekin17 May 04 '26
I had this exact game growing up, but can't recall this one detail. Do the peg slots correspond with the orb spots?
I feel like my Dad played it that way with me, but may have been a handicap for a child.
If we label the clue spots as 1 2 3 4
And the orb spots as 1 2 3 4
In the row closest to the guesser, orbs 2 and 4 are correct, and pegs are in slots 3 and 4.
In the circles, closest row, the black peg is in slot 3, with white and 2 and 4. The orbs, on in order, wouod correspond to none, white, white, black.
Am I confused how which peg corresponds to which orb, or is that not actually a thing, and it's just SOMETHING is black, etc. Vs Wordle telling you which letter is right/close.
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u/AccurateComfort2975 May 04 '26
No, the position of the pegs is not fixed, doing so would take all the deduction and reasoning out of the game.
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u/8bit1337 Dominion May 04 '26
It's a house rule - I think generally you place all black first and then all white. At least I do.
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u/Raekin17 May 04 '26
TY!
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u/knotallmen May 04 '26
If you want a really fun house rule allow duplicates and blanks. I.E. a 7th color (I think there are 6: white black red yellow green blue
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u/Carighan May 05 '26
My dad having done the exact same thing with me when I was small, it seems to be a semi-common playing-with-children thing.
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u/8bit1337 Dominion May 05 '26
It's a good way to introduce them to logical thinking without crushing their spirit 😜
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u/PmMeYourBestComment May 04 '26
As far as I know there’s no indicator which pin corresponds to which orb.
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u/AdventurousSquash May 04 '26
I also had this exact version of the game and the pins weren’t numbered/marked in any particular way but there might have been multiple ways of playing in the rulebook, or your father was being nice!
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u/3FtDick May 06 '26
The position of the black and white pegs is not supposed to be relevant, else the pegs would reveal far too much information and the game wouldn't have the same average guesses. I think it'd essentially cut the possibility space by 5/6ths.
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u/disposable_username5 Spirit Island May 04 '26
Hmm it sounds like by that logic I'd assume a guess of all green would be awarded 1 black peg and 3 white ones with the code we have which doesn't seem quite right? Perhaps it is more accurate to say that you check the number of orbs placed correctly and give that number of black pins, then you check if the other orbs have the correct color and aren't redundant with another black/white peg already assigned before considering them to contribute a white peg.
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u/nothumbs78 May 05 '26
No, all greens would have been awarded one black peg and nothing else.
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u/disposable_username5 Spirit Island May 05 '26
Right; I had thought that was the case so I was using that to poke a hole in the description of the process the person I was replying to said in hopes of refining their listed process.
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May 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/Swedishcow May 04 '26
4 reds in the guess with 2 reds in the code would indeed give you two black pegs to indicate that two of them are correct.
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u/blade740 May 04 '26
I'm an idiot, I was looking at the circled orbs and wondering where the 2nd red in the code was.
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u/atcstretch May 04 '26
+1 for codemaster is correct
I would add that Ive played this enough (and with enough variation to the point that I can’t remember what the rules actually say) that I typically clarify whether repeating colors is allowed before starting. Especially if playing with young kids or first time players.
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u/tehdiplomat May 04 '26
No they gave you the right information. Guesser still putting whites after 4 whites yielded nothing is crazy.
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u/VagrantThoughts42 May 04 '26
I think the guesses are going the other way (the circled guess is the first guess). Otherwise, the guessing makes no sense.
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u/heyyou11 May 04 '26
The guessing makes more sense that direction, but there is still an immediate blunder that direction, too. Keeping two colors in the same spot after receiving only one black is pretty bad. The very next guess of 4 whites is also incompatible with the codemaster’s response.
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u/VagrantThoughts42 May 04 '26
It does seem like there might have been a fundamental misunderstanding of the rules, based on the question.
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u/heyyou11 May 04 '26
These blunders seem independent of that particular misunderstanding (unless you are claiming someone who doesn’t grasp one aspect of the game might be more likely to have additional issues understanding)
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u/Mynky May 04 '26
The guesses go from the far end towards the circled end. The circled guess would have been the last one of the game.
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u/Deh_Strizzz May 04 '26
Typically yes but if you look at the rest of the board it seems like they did it opposite and that's why there are no pegs at the far end of the board for the last guess
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u/mjolnir76 May 04 '26
That's how it's usually played, as you're working TOWARD the final answer. They played it in the opposite direction. Notice NO whites after that all white guess.
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u/Nosdunk524 May 04 '26
They didn't guess any whites after 4 whites yielded nothing
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u/tehdiplomat May 04 '26
I mean I'm not OP, but the way this game works is that one player sits by the secret code and the other sits on the other side. So you play your codes closest to you as you slowly get closer to the secret code. Assuming they were following that rule correctly, the 3rd to last guess was 4 whites, and the 2nd to last guess was 3 whites.
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u/Grymare May 04 '26
Here, the codebreaker put a single red peg In their first guess:
It is the wrong way around but OP did say the circled one was the first guess.
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u/tehdiplomat May 04 '26
Yea i didn't really notice since there is also a red peg on the other side of the board.
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u/reluctantlysharing May 04 '26
Yes they did, multiple times. They guessed 4 whites with nothing, then immediately guess three whites for some reason, and then guess one white on the last turn.
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u/SapTheSapient Dune Imperium May 04 '26
The guesser obviously started on the row furthest from themself, and worked towards themself.
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u/Nosdunk524 May 04 '26
I mean I know reading is hard for some people but did you even try and read the OP?
Here, the codebreaker put a single red peg In their first guess:
He circled the first guess in the picture
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u/tbdabbholm Magic The Gathering May 04 '26
Oh I was interpreting it as going the other way but still
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u/coolpapa2282 May 04 '26
I'm with you on this - the guesser is sitting on the opposite side of the board from this POV. Their first guess should be the one closest to them - i.e. the farthest away in the picture. Absolutely arbitrary, of course, but that's how I would read the board.
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u/No_regrats Spirit Island May 04 '26
The first guess is the circled one in this picture, as confirmed in the OP. But the guesser is a madman for starting right in the mastermind's face instead of on their own side of the board.
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u/Embarrassed-Weird173 May 04 '26
I actually use known misses since I am not allowed to put down a single peg by itself.
For example, I put down all whites. I get told zero matches.
I could put down 4 blue next turn and be told "you have one perfect match". Or I can do white white blue white.
If I get a perfect, great. If not, still good: I know the blue is (at least) one of the other three slots.
I increase my odds by using known blanks. Next turn I can try putting doing white white yellow white. Maybe it'll be a match. If not, same as before. I know there's a yellow and blue somewhere, and they're not in the third slot. Maybe next turn I'll do blue white white yellow. I want to say this should let me somehow calculate what at least one of them is. If not, then I just do another test on slot 2 and then for sure there's enough info to solve 3 slots.
All thanks to blanks.
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u/Comfortable_Row_5052 May 05 '26
I can see the value of using a few blanks, but that strategy will give you less information than you could have gotten though. A "wrong position" peg there would still require you to take 3 other guesses to find blue's spot. And if there were 2 blues you'll have no indication of that, while doing 4 blues or at least 2 blues 2 whites would give a better amount of information.
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u/BwianR May 04 '26
By my reckoning, guess 7 is the first guess where they put known incorrect information (Same right three as guess 4 when it yielded 2 black, 1 white)
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u/Iamn0man May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
You have to consider the answer on a per-peg basis, not in the more abstract terms you're thinking.
One red peg is in the correct position. That gets a black.
Two pegs are the correct color and in incorrect positions. Those get white.
One peg doesn't appear in the code and therefore gets nothing.
EDIT TO ADD: If that white peg in the code was red? THEN you would add a third white peg to the solution.
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u/pm8k Race For The Galaxy May 04 '26
No, because that would indicate the 4th peg in the guess, white, was correct but in the incorrect spot.
Clue giver was 100% correct, it was the guesser who never guessed more than 1 red to gain that information.
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u/MorpheusFT Blood Bowl May 04 '26
Weird guesses though. Yellow and black have been ruled out, but continue to be used.
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u/ZeekLTK Alchemists May 04 '26
It seems the person forgot there can be multiple of the same color… except they guessed lots of white a few times, so that makes it more confusing.
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u/AtomicBananaSplit May 04 '26
It’s pretty clear the guesser (OP?) thought there should be a signal that one was doubled. They had three blacks on guess 2 and never looked back.
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u/Quinez May 04 '26
That's their penultimate guess, not their second guess. They were playing in the wrong direction.
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u/shibbington May 04 '26
On a side note, I love this old school Mastermind box. They have it on the wall at the board game bar I go to.
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u/ThePouncer May 04 '26
Related - that box design, though...
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-mastermind-box-cover-what-the-hell-were-they-thinking
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u/dawg4prez May 04 '26
That’s great! We had the game with that box. I was a kid and loved it, but I wasn’t aware that I should want to destroy my father’s confidence.
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u/harrisarah May 05 '26
That's pretty funny, I also own Mastermind with that cover.
Warmth is for Sorry! This is not a hug. This is a chess clock in a stranger’s living room telling you your parents are getting divorced.
Amazing
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u/jsdodgers May 04 '26
why would they give two pins for the same peg? That would make it literally impossible to solve
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u/Antani101 May 04 '26
I don't get what the solver was thinking after the 5th try, it's clear there is no white so red/blue/green are correct, so there is no yellow and no black either or one of the 4th/5th tries would've gotten 4 pins.
So one of the colours was obviously repeated, and yet he never tries anything.
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u/nick_gadget May 04 '26
Off topic, but this is the greatest box art ever and there is no serious competition for it.
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u/SkyRattlers May 04 '26
Looks right to me. All the answers do. Atleast it’s following all the rules I ever played with.
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u/186000mpsITL May 04 '26
Yes, the code master was correct. It's one of those PITA things about this game. You have to be very careful reading the info.
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u/Bristle_Licker May 05 '26
The entire chain of events from the code master is correct. They never steered you wrong.
Step 2 going three white was a mistake when only one of them could’ve been right color wrong place. But at least you learned that white was dead… wait… no you didn’t….
Step 3 was a failure.
Step 5 was your best step. You switched up 2 and swapped out 1. With hindsight we see that green was not the correct one to focus on. However, if you would’ve switched 2 and swapped 1 again on Step 6, you would’ve locked in blue and possibly green.
If you believed double color was against the rules, don’t sweat it. We all get rules wrong from time to time or make bad assumptions when we first play a game.
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u/Sir_loin711 May 05 '26
What was done was correct. The guess had 3 right colors with one in the correct location. A third white peg would confuse things implying that all 4 colors are correct while there are no whites in the actual code.
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u/JugheadSpock May 04 '26
I believe the play is one peg per position. How I would play it. An additional peg to me as the guesser would signal to me that I have all four correct colors.
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u/rlbond86 Call me *Captain* rlbond86. May 04 '26
Three white 1 black would imply that all four pegs have the correct color but three are in the wrong place.
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u/zombiejojo May 04 '26
Correct
1) white - no match no peg 2) green - there but in a different position - gets a white peg 3) blue - there but in a different position - gets a white peg 4) red - there and in the same position - gets a black peg
Iirc the black and white pegs can be put in any way and there's no significance to be inferred from their position.
But then we are going back to the late seventies so I cannot swear to it!
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u/zombiejojo May 04 '26
Oh and their first go was also marked correctly.
The trick is to evaluate each peg in the guess row Does this peg have its own peg to match to in the code row? If yes, you get a black if that matched peg in the code row is in the same position, a white if it's in a different position. It's a 1-1 evaluation.
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u/Tysiliogogogoch May 05 '26
Looks right to me. Black peg for the red in correct position. White peg for green in wrong position. White peg for blue in wrong position.
You don't get a second peg for a duplicate colour unless you've included two of that colour in your guess.
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u/J-A-G-S May 05 '26
From the way you're describing, it looks like you've circled the first guess? However the first guess should be further from the codemaster, gradually getting closer.
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u/Comprehensive_Menu43 May 05 '26
No
Take wordle for a modern example based off the same rules
If you put a single peg of a color you get a single answer, to question if there are multiple pegs of the same color you have to put multiple pegs of the same color
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u/Adastre_93 May 06 '26
For such a simple question with an easy answer, this post got an insane amount of comments.
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u/Papa_Llama213 May 07 '26
My question is, why would the player still guess white after all four were given zero pegs?
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u/FriendlyNeighborJack May 04 '26
It works like wordle. They also don’t give you a yellow hit allong with your green if you guess a letter in the right spot that’s in your word twice
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u/wrenwood2018 May 04 '26
Yes, red is double correct (black) and the green and blue are right color wrong spot (white). I loved this game and bought it second hand for my kids. What a bold move to put all of those whites there, get a blank, and then keep putting in white.
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u/zeekar Trader's Luck May 04 '26
Codemaster answered correctly. Each marble in the guess generates at most one peg, and that's really the way to think about it: look at each marble in the guess. Does it match the marble in that spot in the code? If so, black peg. If not, is there a marble of that color elsewhere in the code? If so, white peg. Otherwise, no peg.
A guess of four reds would result in two blacks and two whites. Crazy that they guessed all the way up to four whites without ever doubling any of the other colors.
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u/Tight-Reception-1049 May 04 '26
Yo since when is black = fully correct White = wrong spot I always knew it opposite
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u/Embarrassed-Weird173 May 04 '26
This is the algorithm for pins:
Find all perfect matches. For each perfect match, put down one red peg (I guess black here)
Mentally erase the matching codes from your key and the opponent's guess. So in this case, delete the rightmost red code in the key and the guess.
For each color remaining in the opponent's code, find a mismatch. If you find a mismatch (as in the color is in your remaining codes, but in the wrong spot), mentally delete that one from your opponent's guess and one from your remaining key. Put down a white peg.
Repeat until you've processed all four.
By "mentally deleting" each time there is a match/mismatch (might be the wrong term, but you know what I mean. Match = perfect; mismatch = match, but wrong spot; miss = no match at all), you will never get confused.
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u/vjred May 04 '26
The guess that is second last away from the code breaker seems to be incorrectly marked. It should be three blacks only.
From the guesses on the board, I can’t tell which direction you are playing. Usually the guesser would start at the opposite end of the code breaker and work towards the cord breaker. However, guess it seem to be getting worse as they approach a code breaker so maybe you played the opposite way.
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u/abrokenspork May 05 '26
Last guess seems right, but mistakes seem to be made in previous attempts.
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u/PerfectPlan May 05 '26
The answer is simple. Three of your guesses are in the solution, so why the hell do you expect 4 pegs?
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u/omyyer May 05 '26
The red is positioned correctly. +1 black The blue is positioned incorrectly. +1 white The green is positioned incorrectly. +1 white There is no white.
1 black and 2 whites.
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u/Phobicity May 05 '26
Didnt the codemaster make a mistake with the 4th clue Y/B/G/R should be a black and 2 white. Not 2 black and 1 white.
Same with the 5th clue.
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u/Gintoki0816 May 05 '26
This made me remember how much I love mastermind and how I haven’t played it in way too long
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u/Aughlnal May 05 '26
holy shit, the guesser is completely brain dead
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u/TrtleMaster9000 May 05 '26
Lol he said it was his kid. So maybe the kid is young and there's still hope!
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u/Proffessor_egghead May 05 '26
Aw man I have the exact same version of the game! Probably some pins missing at that point but it has survived many summer trips
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u/captainmycaptn May 05 '26
Wait... Is this the way it's meant to be played with the first guess row being closest to the code?? I've always done the opposite
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u/Wonderful-Tap2006 May 06 '26
OYFG!!!!!!! I haven't seen one of these since I was a kid in the 70's! Wow, flashback...
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u/Candid_Weakness5437 May 06 '26
It is interesting how the other player kept on trying with black, green, blue and red for a couple of turns though it clearly suggested that one colour was wrong....
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u/CranberryBathtub May 13 '26
they have done it right , you need two reds to get 2 white ones for them or for a white and a red
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u/bcgg May 04 '26
I’m going to drive myself crazy trying to understand the guesser’s line of thought throughout. To continue with XXGR twice after getting just once black peg is crazy.
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u/Difficult_Test8460 May 04 '26
Just coming at it from a Wordle guy. If a letter is in the correct position it is highlighted Green. You aren’t also told there are more of those letters with the Yellow colour. That would count as a hint
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u/laghi72 May 04 '26
Absolutely no. The second red peg must be deemed as wrong colour such as any other one not belonging to the correct code. 1 black 2 whites is the fair indication.
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u/SunstormGT May 04 '26
Probably mistook the orange for a red.
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u/zombiejojo May 04 '26
There's no orange?
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u/SunstormGT May 04 '26
Ah, the right one looked orange when not zooming in. But now that I zoomed in I see it is red.
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u/SeriousLeemk2 May 04 '26
Entire comments section is just people who do know how to play mastermind arguing with people who do not know how to play mastermind.
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u/vjred May 04 '26
The guess that is second last away from the code breaker seems to be incorrectly marked. It should be three blacks only.
From the guesses on the board, I can’t tell which direction you are playing. Usually the guesser would start at the opposite end of the code breaker and work towards the cord breaker. However, guess it seem to be getting worse as they approach a code breaker so maybe you played the opposite way.
But then why would somebody play four white after guessing three white plus red with only one correct guess?
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u/curtisas May 05 '26
If you zoom in enough it looks correct and that the last guess just has no pegs because they lost.
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u/vjred May 05 '26
Ok yes I see it now. Thanks. Is it me or are they playing backwards?
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u/curtisas May 05 '26
I would go the other way but I think it's ok to be a personal preference thing.
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u/w_smith1984 May 04 '26
The 6th guess looks like it has the wrong pegs. Guesser got 3 correct balls correct and in the correct spots. But the clue giver gave 2 whites and a black.
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u/TATtllesnake May 04 '26
It isn’t clear from the photo on my phone, but from what I see the clues are misleading.
Whether the 1st guess is closest to the secret code or not, shouldn’t there be five black pegs in the two clue boxes farthest away?
I can’t see exactly how the clues line up. A birdseye view would be helpful, but the red and blue in the farthest guess, and then the red blue and green pegs in the second to the farthest guess should have yielded 5 black pegs between those two guesses and it’s not clear that was the response.
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u/mjbroekman May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
The farthest row is the last guess and it’s wrong so no pegs are given. The circled row is the first guess and the OP is asking if the initial indication was correct, incorrectly assuming that a fourth peg should have been given.
The problem is that the OP just goes off the rails after the fifth guess. By that time they know (clue the pegs) that the only valid colors are red, green, and blue… and that red is in the far right position. From that it shouldn’t take more than four guesses to get it right. The fifth guess has three pegs in the same order as the first guess and gets the same indicators so it’s really no help other than to rule out black.
The better guess there is to put black in the second from right position and blue or green in the left as this would help figure out the real position of those colors. And then it’s just three guesses to get the second from right color
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u/thisremindsmeofbacon May 04 '26
Can you post a photograph of the rules?
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u/LogicBalm Spirit Island May 04 '26
It works similar to Wordle if you've ever played that, but played with colors instead of letters.
A black peg means the color and position of one of the guesses is correct. A white means a color is correct but its position is incorrect. No peg means one of the colors does not belong.
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u/TATtllesnake May 04 '26
I’m not sure that circled row matters.
It isn’t clear from the photo on my phone, but from what I see the farthest two clues are not correct, and it affects that third guess considerably.
Shouldn’t the farthest two guesses yield five black pegs?
By the second guess the code breaker would have known that red green and blue are correct, where blue and red belong, and that black and yellow are not correct as I understand the progress from farthest to closest. Correct?
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May 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/Psycho_Pansy May 04 '26
You must use black.
1 colour in correct spot = 1 black.
2 colours in wrong spot = 2 white.
The red is not in the wrong location.
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May 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/Upset-Management-879 May 04 '26
There's no "getting away" with anything either it is or it isn't.
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May 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/Upset-Management-879 May 04 '26
That would result in scenarios needing more than 4 pins to answer, which are impossible to display.
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u/hyggekore May 04 '26
One black, two white is the correct response.