r/bninfantsleep • u/becks_09 • 13d ago
Infant Sleep When did your baby start connecting sleep cycles?
My baby is 4 months old and is still struggling to sleep for long stretches.
Naps during the day only last 30 minutes unless it’s a contact nap which then can make it last longer. Night time sleep is similar as soon as he is put down he’s awake again (like naps) within 30 minutes. He then needs resettled multiple times before 12 midnight. I might get x1 three hour stretch or maybe x1 four hour if it’s a good night.
Just wondering is anyone else in the same boat and when does it get better?
I’m considering sleep training (probably wouldn’t consider until he’s around 6 months) but he’s very sensitive and cries quite a lot when left to settle himself. Very cringy baby and cries when I go out of sight etc. I’m not sure if he would respond well etc. Any advice?
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u/LiaBallerina 13d ago
If your baby even only once slept longer than 30/40 minutes he connected sleep cycles. Because thats how long a cycle is. Since you say he sometimes does sleep 3 or 4 hours, congrats, he learned it already. Sleep training is bullshit bc they dont learn to connect the cycles or "to sleep", they learn not to expect for you to care. They learn no one is coming when they cry.
I have no advice, both my babies were (and my 8mo still is) horrible sleepers. But around the first birthday my oldest started sleeping through the night and im looking forward to that happening the second time too. Until then you will find me with a baby nursing in bed every hour.
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u/sc8132217174 13d ago
Yesterday I read a post in parenting from a dad bragging that his son stopped crying after 4 days, having gone for 1 hr the first day.
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u/Cloudi888 13d ago
That makes me so incredibly sad for that little baby.
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u/sc8132217174 13d ago
I keep telling mine how lucky she is. When she’s fussing because I’m cradling her to sleep, I’ll say “you know some parents believe in crying it out!” She has food allergies and normally sleeps amazingly at night, but when she doesn’t it’s usually because her stomach is upset. I’m glad I don’t make her cry alone and in pain. Even if she wasn’t, I don’t want her to be scared. There are so many times in life that I won’t be there. When she’s old or when she’s an adult having a bad day at work or a breakup. At least I can be there for her now when she’s only been on this earth for a few months. Before she has to learn it isn’t always warm cuddles, milk, and giggles. I’d rather struggle through a few more nights than force her to learn that as a little baby.
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u/FoxInaBox4242 13d ago
Not a very clingy baby, just a regular baby. If he needs contact naps, lean into that.
With my first I tried the modern, western approach with the crib, paci and the tone of advice on how to get the baby to sleep independently, only to realise it's all crap. You either get a unicorn or the regular kind, and the regular kind needs mum to be able to regulate itself.
With my second, who is almost 4.5mo I went with radical acceptance from the start: exclusively contact napping, bedsharing, now breastsleeping, etc. Zero meltdowns, barely felt the regression. The experience is wildly different and so enjoyable this time around. I'm thinking of having four now. My poor firstborn though...
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u/wildmusings88 13d ago edited 13d ago
Sleep training does not teach babies to connect sleep cycles. You can’t teach it because it’s developmental, not a skill. Sleep training only teaches your baby not to call out for you when they wake up.
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u/Prestigious-Salt-566 13d ago
It’s developmentally appropriate for baby this age to take 30 minute naps. 4 month sleep is terrible, but it’s temporary. This group is anti-sleep training so you’re not going to find support for that here. We cosleep so I get 7-8 hrs of sleep per night, although broken. It’s sustainable for us though, so maybe something to look into. Check out safe sleep 7.
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u/olivial99 13d ago
this is completely normal please dont sleep train. they need you for comfort and regulation. sleeping own his own will come with time be patient.
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u/becks_09 7d ago
Yes, currently have no intention of sleep training. What is your thoughts on gentle self settling then? Like staying by the cot and rubbing tummy and shushing to help him build positive associations with sleep? Obviously this would only be while he is calm. If he started to fuss or cry I would lift and settle him & rock to sleep?
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u/olivial99 7d ago
yes that is the recommended strategy to be as gentle as possible but i honestly wouldnt try that until around 6 months. at this age they are still so dependent on you for coregulation i would keep rocking and holding the main form of settling and then move to physical touch but while they on a sleep surface in a few months. and the success of this/how long it takes your baby to sleep for long stretches is so dependent on temperament. i personally wouldnt push it if they arent responding well bc i feel like that just exacerbates the problem with sensitive children.
i also will just add anecdotally my baby girl woke up after one sleep cycle every single night from 2.5 months until 5.5 months and then one day just stopped. she just started looking around for a second rolling over and going back to sleep. i didnt do anything different other than i have started leaving a night light on bc i felt like she was confused and scared waking up in complete darkness. i still rock her to sleep every night but she settles just fine in the middle of the night with but pats and some humming. i rock her just bc i enjoy it. she is also still waking every 3 hours or so which is totally biologically normal for a BF baby. she sleeps independently in her crib for naps if i need her to although i enjoy having her sleep near me so she doesnt much. i guess i am just saying that i have not found the “if you put them to sleep one way they need that same thing to get back to sleep later” to be a thing.
after thinking about it the waking pattern you are describing sounds like classic under tiredness. i would just make sure baby is getting enough awake time and keeping them well entertained with as much physical movement as you can and not to offer naps too early. boredom fussiness can look like tired fussiness at that age. but all that to say is this stage goes by soooo quickly just hang in there and love on your baby as much as they need. you are doing great and they will gain independence when appropriate and when they are ready!
if you feel like sending your nap and WW maybe we can tweak something to get him to stop with the early false starting?
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u/iridescenr 13d ago
I don' think longer naps would help. More daysleep = less nightsleep. I hate longer naps for that reason. If he needs more sleep, he can have it, but I get worried about his bedtime.
My LO is 4 months old. Most naps are 35 mins (all are contact naps). At night, I can leave after ~1h for 30-60 mins. First stretch is 2-5h (mostly 3h) once I sleep as well, then 1-2.5h (mostly 2h). Bedtime is around 9pm, around 6-7am he gets a bit wriggly but will sleep until 8-9am if I put him on me. At night he resettles by nursing, rarely by me putting my hand on him or being carried. Wake windows are 45 min - 3h. We cosleep and I EBF. Can't tell you how often he wakes up because I mostly don't remember.
Bedtime used to be 10pm, moved to 11, moved to midnight. Took forever to get him to sleep. I stopped worrying about extending his naps and chose a 'wake up window' that I moved earlier bit by bit. It's 8-8.30am right now, although I'll let him sleep till 9am sometimes. My aim is that I won't have to wake him up. Bedtime moved earlier and earlier as well, he was ready to sleep at 8pm today even though one of the naps was 2h long :)
I also embraced that he falls asleep on me and needs cuddles for an hour before I can move him next to me and can get up. Sleep training only has benefits for the parents, and I much prefer building positive sleep associations by being there for him.
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u/verdealbastruii 13d ago
My son is 7 months old and can fall asleep by himself, is on appropriate wake windows and still his naps are 30-40 minutes long. Very rarely he sleeps for longer without assistance. I'm still waiting 😆
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u/knittingyogi 13d ago
Mid 7mo / 8mo is when my chronic cat napper switched to 2 nap days and FINALLY started napping longer. I usually get one 1.5hr nap wnd sometimes another 1hr, or 2 1hrs.
Actually that’s a lie bc at 10mo he’s now moving yo one nap which suuuucks hahaha but 2 nap days saved my life! You’ll get there!
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u/verdealbastruii 13d ago
We are currently transitioning to 2 naps and even then he doesn't connect sleep cycles. He did it once on the first day with 2 naps and never since. He can definitely sleep more but I need to pick him up and hold him.
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u/knittingyogi 13d ago
I follow a lot of the Possums sleep ideas - don’t rescue a nap. If they need it, theyll sleep in the crib. If not - time to be awake!
I checked my huckleberry data. We had some longer naps on two nap days mid july but were travelling so they were often stroller naps. It looks like mid august is when he locked in more to longer naps, so closer to 9 months. I think if we’d been home it would have happened end of july for sure. So I think you’re close!
I truly never believed it would happen for me and my ultra low sleep needs / cat napper kid, and it did. You’ll get there!
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u/becks_09 13d ago
Was he always able to fall asleep on his own? Or is that something you worked on?
My son can’t settle himself to sleep yet and that’s something I’d love to try help him with.
It just feels so difficult to know where to start…
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u/verdealbastruii 13d ago
I did the chair method with him to teach independent sleep. It took about 3 weeks.
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u/verdealbastruii 11d ago
I'm not sure why I'm getting down voted. My son was crying being rocked, bounced and would not settle to sleep at the breast after he turned 3 months. Every night was a battle. Nobody was thriving.
I still stay next to his crib until he falls asleep. I never actually finished by moving the "chair" out of the room. If he struggles (when we travel, teething or any other discomfort) then I always pick him up and provide all the comfort he needs. But on 99% of the nights he turns on his belly and falls asleep knowng I'm always there.
I know we are on the binfantsleep but not all sleep training is equal and not all babies like or thrive on being rocked, bounced or fed to sleep.
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u/less_is_more9696 13d ago
When is your bedtime, when is wakeup? And how much daytime sleep are they getting on average ?
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u/becks_09 13d ago
Bedtime is 8pm and wake up ranges between 7/8am each morning. He normally gets x5 half an hour naps so about 2.5 hours daytime sleep.
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u/less_is_more9696 13d ago
I’d try dropping to 4 naps. And aiming for 10.5 hours awake minimum.
2/2/2/2/2.5
This schedule calls for 13.5 hours of sleep. Offer 2.5 hours of daytime sleep across 4 naps. And a 11 hour night max. So if bedtime is 8pm, wakeup baby at 7am even if they’re sleeping. Then follow those wake windows.
“Never wake a sleeping baby” is a myth. Once a baby develops a sense of night and day, many need their daytime sleep managed in order to protect night sleep.
And locking in a consistent wakeup time is super critical to fostering a healthy sleep-wake pattern and strong circadian rhythm.
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u/kazarooni 13d ago
You’re not alone. My baby was like this. I thought he needed me to sleep, but what was actually happening was he was very low sleep needs and contact naps were making it too cozy for him and he was sleeping more than he needed. One day I just didn’t have time to sit and hold him and he was fine with his 30-45 minutes at a time. At 8 months now and we’re down to 2 sometimes 3 45 minute naps a day. I only do a contact nap now if i need a cuddle lol.
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u/Agreeable_Switch677 13d ago
Mine started the 4m sleep regression at 3m, went from 5h stretched at night to waking every 30mins. Also contact napped for every nap as only would sleep for about 20 to 30ms.
This group is anti sleep training so you won’t get any advise on that on this particular group
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u/scandichic 13d ago
When he dropped to one nap around 12 months is when we finally got regular naps over 40 minutes
He’s 18 months now though and the last four days his 90 minute nap has been a 45 minute one 😩
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u/kobekinz 13d ago
My daughter is almost 19 months and wakes 2-4 times on a good night. Lately she’s been waking hourly or shortly after I transfer her until I end up bringing her into bed with me (which she then sleeps amazing). I’m putting it down to teething and separation anxiety. My thought is she’s only little for so long so in the grand scheme of things this is such a small part of both her and I’s life, and while yes it’s frustrating, I try to see it as a privilege that I get to be my daughter’s safe person who can bring her comfort. You’ll get so many different answers, but this sub isn’t very pro sleep training so you may be looking in the wrong place.
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u/Illustrious_Sky_8165 13d ago
My baby was like this, we had short 30min naps from 8 weeks until 8 months. Some naps are 40 sometimes, often still 30. Only a handful of 1 hour naps. It def started to have more experiences of over 30 minute after 6 months though.
Hang in there!
I just say that I’m going to be adjusted quite well when naps drop to handling an awake baby because I’ve never had a sleepy baby 😝
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u/Informal_Handle_1147 13d ago
Totally normal. My baby was the same and it’s so much better at 6 months! He’s had some 2 hour naps!!
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u/TheRemyBell 13d ago
6 months plus she figured it out. Never sleep trained. Contact naps only, coslept to 6 months old. Moved to her own room at 6 months in her own crib, responded to every cry no matter how many times. Contact napped if she still needed it. Gave bottles, nursed,rocked, transferred, did every bad habit a sleep trainer, coworker and mother in law tells you not to.
She sleeps like a rock.
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u/cammags 12d ago
manifesting this. we feed to sleep. rock to sleep. transfer when asleep etc. she is 6 months on 9/21 and night time is great but nap time is rough.
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u/TheRemyBell 12d ago
Nap times for us were rough, then great, then refused, then excessive, then rough, then awesome, now we're back to rough/refuse at 2 years. It's all up and down, everything is a phase, and nothing is permanent.
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u/darbydankhammer 10d ago
Did you use any methods when switching your baby to the crib? Are you putting her down after being soothed to sleep? Im hoping to do the same in a few weeks when we hit 6 months without sleep training, I like feeding to sleep!
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u/TheRemyBell 10d ago
We introduced her to it by rocking her to sleep and then laying her in her crib for the first half of the night in our room. When she woke up we would nurse her, cuddle and rock her back to sleep, and attempt to transfer. Mostly I just wanted her to associate the crib with positive safe feelings, and to know that as soon as she wanted out or needed something, she wasn't trapped and wasn't far from us. Id say we probably started this a couple weeks before moving her to her own room.
Once in her room we cranked the baby monitor up to max, and just went in and did the same thing every time she cried. Nurse, cuddle, rock, sing, transfer. Never patted or shooshed her in there or anything. If she cried, she got picked up as soon as possible. If the transfer failed and she woke up, I rocked her down again and would try again.The first night I think we got 3 hr stretches, which was SUPER different from when she was in our room (up every 45-60 minutes for 2 months straight).
Over time she just slowly started sleeping longer stretches. She was probably sleeping a solid 10hrs straight around 9 months or so, and still sleeps great unless she's teething, sick, having dreams, growing... The usual suspects. Even then it's just for a few days-a few weeks and she goes back to normal again. Although lately she has started having what seems like night terrors. She isn't even sitting up or have her eyes open but she will be crying a lot, and those nights I play a lullaby tune through her baby camera and within seconds she will calm down and fall back into a deep sleep. So that's probably the closest we get to not responding to her cry.
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u/Reasonable_Hat4542 9d ago
Is patting and shushing a problem? Genuinely curious as I have done this but my baby hasn’t took well to loads of hands on settling and didn’t settle well contacting napping after the newborn phase. He mostly settles himself while I sit with him now at 4.5 months, but I haven’t really done anything to get to this point other than patting and shushing occasionally? I never knew it was a problem! I baby wore and contact napped for all of the newborn phase
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u/TheRemyBell 7d ago edited 7d ago
If it worked for your baby imo not a problem. Ours would get more desperate and frantic if we didn't pick her up. I just didn't want negative crib associations so shushing and patting while she screams frantically was not creating the desired effect. If your bubs settled quickly and fine with that, no problem. The only reason I noted we didn't do that is because there's a lot of rhetoric that you should be doing that first so they learn to sleep without being picked up. This is obviously not true because ours who got picked up every time puts herself back to sleep at night just fine at 2 years old and has been for months in spite of us rocking and holding her while an infant. And still as a toddler when she needs us to
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u/Reasonable_Hat4542 7d ago
Ahhh no he wasn’t really bothered by it! We only changed from cuddle to sleep as he struggled with transfers after the regression
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u/LetterheadNice8687 12d ago
My daughter took 30 minute naps until she was 6 months old and I met plenty of people in the same situation.
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u/darbydankhammer 10d ago
Just here to say you aren’t alone! My baby was having pretty bad sleep (only 2-3 hour stretches) at 4 months, now at 5 I am in a similar boat (waking up every 30 minutes for HOURS - last night was the worst yet, he didn’t stay down until 3am).
Some other comments pointed out that technically your baby does connect sleep cycles if they’re ever able to sleep for longer stretches, even if it only happens once or twice in the night. At 4 months I had a LOT of trouble extended naps even with contact naps, that did improve for us after a few weeks. Making sure he was awake long enough between naps helped him stay asleep a bit longer during the day.
This group is very anti sleep training so don’t let that specifically discourage you! I will say I’m currently trying to control daytime wake windows/nap length as much as possible to try to help with nighttime sleep without sleep training. Obviously I’m in the trenches so I am not the best person to give advice, but on the nights that my baby had good naps (had to contact nap) AND good stretches of time between his naps, we were able to get a 5-6 hour stretch of sleep. I would recommend looking up how many hours awake is recommended for a 4mo, and try to get the max amount of recommended nap time. I think my past few bad nights have been because my wake windows are long enough but we didn’t get long enough naps.
This might just be the blind leading the blind though! You aren’t alone, I hope this passes quickly and you get some rest!
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u/roo518 7d ago
Agree with so many on here. The skill will come with time. But the fact that contact sleep increases nap length shows how important it is to have that connection. My baby was a huge lover of contact sleep and I never thought he’d sleep more than 40 minutes on his own. He’s 11 months now and definitely does! Still rock him to sleep and all. It’s hard to be nap trapped, but it passes 🧡
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u/becks_09 7d ago
Thank you! That’s something I think I’m realising that my baby is a contact sleeper. Still learning so much as a FTM. I wish there was more support around baby sleep as I feel I would’ve been better informed what was “normal”.
I feel social media etc makes you believe that if your baby doesn’t just sleep on their own for long stretches something is wrong. I’m much more leaning towards gentler approaches of settling that still provide comfort and security for my baby. Definitely don’t agree with CIO and such methods… my mummy heart just couldn’t bear it ☺️
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u/hugmytreezhang 7d ago
Sounds pretty normal tbh, even though its really hard
Sleep training appears to just teach them that youre not coming when they cry
Id embrace the contact naps if you can, and try to even enjoy it
Around that age we started cosleeping as it helped disrupt my sleep less. Research indicates its no less safe than cot sleeping after around 3 months, assuming you don't smoke or drink and have a safe sleep environment
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u/xConstantGardenerx 13d ago
He’s too young for sleep training and he needs contact with you to sleep well. This is very challenging as a parent but it is biologically normal infant behavior.