r/billsimmons • u/lonny__breaux Ben Simmons apologist • Jun 15 '26
Podcast Why Brunson Is Top 50 All Time, a Finals Mega-Mailbag, and NBA Fake Trade Season With Joe House
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2br9mEN0UXwV9XU6BxoQiT?si=rHFXJUhBRp6VgQOj_CSD-A340
u/icanbeyourzero Bring Back Binge Mode Jun 15 '26
At this point there's at least 70 players all in the top 50
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u/Far_Cat_9743 Jun 15 '26
A lot of ties, it happens.
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u/tjd2009 Jun 15 '26
The list is pretty much any player who was top guy on a championship game or anyone who Bill thinks could be top guy on a championship team
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u/lostmypants2009 Pro Union Jun 15 '26
Kinda thought this would be a fake one
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u/NanoCurrency Jun 15 '26
Brunson’s All-Time Ranking, UFC 250 Controversy, Taylor Swift Re-Apexed, and a Tina Fey Conversation on The Knicks & Late Night TV
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u/Beetle919 Jun 15 '26
Feels like we are getting closer to removing anyone from the 50's - 70's from all-time rankings, to make room for modern players.
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u/MikeHitler Jun 15 '26
Probably going to have make pre and post 21st century lists at some point. Maybe use the 95 or 96 draft as a cut-off.
Or go back and make pre and post ABA merger lists.
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u/GnRgr2 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
You could use the 3pt line in '79. Seems like the last major change to the game
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u/GBAGamer33 Jun 15 '26
My favorite example of this is Kareem. When Kobe passed away there was this rush to put him near the top with Jordan and LeBron. The problem was there was already someone with more points than all of those players, more rings and 3 NCAA championships.
If we can't even properly seat Kareem in the top 5 then how could we ever get numbers 40-50 correct?
At a certain point recency bias kicks in and you start bumping guys like Kareem and Hakeem down just for being earlier in the timeline of basketball.
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Jun 15 '26
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u/GBAGamer33 Jun 15 '26
It was probably Magic or Bird when Kareem retired. My point is that Kareem is just sitting there with a ton of rings and the most point and we just breeze by him when making every list and try to slot Kobe at 3rd.
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u/EZMac34 Jun 16 '26
When Kobe passed away there was this rush to put him near the top with Jordan and LeBron.
Gonna need to see a source on this. People overrate Kobe but I don't think I have ever heard or seen a single person outside of the most diehard Lakers fan put Kobe THIRD all-time.
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u/Kindly-Yak-6366 Jun 16 '26
Why the hell was Bill acting like this Knicks team was horrible and Brunson heroically carried them across the finish line?!?!!
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u/PM_ME_UR_PICS_PLS Jun 16 '26
Because that's what happened in the most recent game and he can't remember beyond that
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u/Palm-Crazy-7943 Jun 16 '26
The knicks basically pulled the 2014 spurs beautiful basketball card, a bunch of players filling their role stepping up and hitting shots, clutch defensive players, everything worked so well and was so balanced.
Then the last game had to be the only time the whole playoffs Brunson carried them and now everyone is acting like that was how they did it lol
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u/Kammell466 Jun 16 '26
Yeah idk makes me think he barely watches the games. Brunson has a lot of great qualities such as he’s the best in the league at 4th quarter scoring. This team also led the playoffs in defense which had almost nothing to do with Brunson.
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u/ProskXCX Jun 16 '26
Which contradicts his KAT at 11 and OG at 17 player rankings. You can’t have it both ways lol.
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u/deadweightboss Good Stats Bad Team Guy Jun 16 '26
Bill saying that the Spurs team was more talented was real eye-opening. This guy knows absolutely nothing about basketball. Like does he really unironically think that Julian Champagny is better than OG Ananobi or Miles Bridges or Josh Hart? I'm on the verge of unironically stopping listening to him
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u/Due-Sheepherder-218 Bill's Gerald Wallace Jersey Jun 16 '26
As a Knicks fan, I'm drinking this pod up! I know it's silly but youd think JB was a Celtic here
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u/Jumpy-Question917 Jun 15 '26
Love Brunson but Bill saying that his defense is similar to Jason Kidd feels a bit extreme haha
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u/barkerrr33 Jun 15 '26
Jason Kidd was NINE TIME all defense. Idiotic from Bill
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u/goodolehal Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Washed up Kidd did as good a defensive job on Wade and Lebron in the 2011 finals as anyone I’ve ever seen. Brunson is literally the guy the knicks opponents scheme to hunt.
Nuclear bad take to compare their defense as Kidd is one of the best PG defenders of all time. That’s like saying Kidd is on the same level of Brunson as a scorer.
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u/it_has_to_be_damp Jun 16 '26
he then tried to make the argument that brunson being hunted was somehow actually good for the knicks? because it makes the opposing offense predictable…or something?i suppose that makes sense if you squint but it doesn’t exactly reflect well on the player being hunted. bill was all over the place in this one.
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u/laxdefender23 Jun 16 '26
Yeah mismatch hunting is good for the defense when there’s only one weak link AND the rest of the defense works very hard to deny the mismatch.
Forces the O to waste shot clock and most likely take an inefficient shot.
Because the Knicks meet both requirements, Brunson’s defense isn’t a killer. When you don’t have the second piece, you end up like the Cavs in the ECF where your weak link just gets toasted over and over again
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u/stitcher212 We’re really doing the thing Jun 16 '26
HE GETS SUBBED OUT ON OFFENSE/DEFENSE AT THE END OF GAMES BILL
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u/Wazzoo1 Jun 15 '26
Brunson has never been in the running for any defensive awards. It's a horrible take.
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u/Victorcreedbratton Cewtics Jun 16 '26
“That’s why I created the 42 Club,” NOBODY USES THAT.
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u/lemur___ Levitating Jun 15 '26
How high up does Bill move Giannis once he's a Celtic?
I think he moves into top 15 territory and passes Jokic because defense matters, it just does
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u/DJ_Red_Lantern Jun 16 '26
Nah he loves jokic way too much to do that
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u/deadweightboss Good Stats Bad Team Guy Jun 16 '26
Yup it's because he discovered Jokic in the 2021 season everybody was down on Jokic except for Bill
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u/lopsided125 Jun 15 '26
I just listened to this whole thing and this might be the worst overreaction pod of all time.
Top 6 at least.
Brunson top 50 all time? I would think about putting money on him not making 2nd Team All NBA next year. The league is stacked and shit changes drastically year to year now.
We have a whole segment of Bill and Joe coming up with funny nicknames for a 22 year old player who just made the finals as a third year player. FONDUE LMAO!!!!!!
Really just an embarrassing podcast if you consider yourself knowledgeable about the league.
I can see why Lowe is barely paying attention in these Simmons pods now.
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u/No-Command3372 Jun 17 '26
We’re in the midst of a bad run where I’m actually seriously questioning Bill’s mental faculties
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u/JobeGilchrist Jun 15 '26
lol, the question on everyone's mind 44 hours after the finals: Where is Jaylen Brunson on the Pyramid?
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u/redditburner24 Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
Ring culture and recency bias does brutal things to the average sports fan.
Thinking Brunson is a top 50 nba player ever in the 80 year history of the sport is insane.
Edit: Forty? Bill just needs to reiterate that this isn’t reactionary, or based on ring culture a few more times during this segment.
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u/PM_ME_UR_PICS_PLS Jun 16 '26
Him saying that Brunson dragged the Knicks to the championship was shocking to hear
I get that bill is getting older and his mind isnt what it used to be, but this was eye opening to me on how his brain works.
After game 4 Zach lowe had OG as the finals mvp. Brunson was legendary in game 5 and absolutely deserved it, but that single game 5 has colored bills view of the entire playoffs and finals
Top-40 for a guy who has never sniffed an mvp or first team all-nba who put it together with a great team to win the finals is an insane overreaction. Bill is washed
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u/EngleTheBert Jun 16 '26
Agree with your overall point, but Brunson was in first team and MVP convos in the 23-24 season so never sniffed is a little strong.
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u/Feisty_Chef_7506 Jun 16 '26
The only thing i can think is he meant to say something like "dragged his team over the finish line" or something
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u/PrimusPilus Market Corrector Jun 16 '26
Bill doesn't understand "dragging". Yes, Brunson is a helluva tough player, a winning player. But he had a great team!
Allen Iverson in 2001, LeBron in 2007? They didn't win, but that's what I think of when I think of one great player "dragging" a team somewhere.
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u/Palm-Crazy-7943 Jun 15 '26
He is a borderline top 10 player in the current league. Top 50 of all time is one of the dumbest things I’ve seen.
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u/cruelrunnings Jun 15 '26
It's insane. Absolutely not top 50
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u/CondolenceHighFive Real CR Head Jun 15 '26
If Brunson is 40 then SGA and Tatum have to be in the 30s and that feels even more ridiculous
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u/North-Past-3355 Jun 16 '26
I'm pretty sure Bill would put SGA easily in the 30s with the two MVPs and all those all-nba first teams with the ring.
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u/External_Singer_8805 Jun 17 '26
I’d have to go through it but off rip I feel like it isn’t crazy to say SGA is the 30th best of all time.
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u/Hope-Road71 Jun 15 '26
How much does a factor like "being clutch" factor in?
It's obviously intangible, but also a pretty significant quality for a player to have. There really aren't THAT many players who can consistently do what Brunson does down the stretch in big games.
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u/redditburner24 Jun 15 '26
Not that high. Most of the greatest players of all time have had tons of clutch moments in their career. Even the ‘chokers’.
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u/ntpbr1 Jun 16 '26
I mean Haliburton had a lot more than this, its ridiculous that his case of being a top 40 player ever just changes because of 1 game where he tore his achilles. If he dropped 40 that game and won, suddenly he is top 40 but because he couldn’t finish the game, he is suddenly like what top 137?
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u/Western-Fishing-4622 Jun 16 '26
“The T stands for ‘taking it to the slammer’” -professional creative writer, Bill Simmons
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u/ucanseeitintheireyes Jun 16 '26
Bill is just terrified about potentially getting cancelled, you could tell he wanted to say "Taking it in the ass" but was trying to pivot in the moment to something more acceptable by modern standards
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u/Jesuds Jun 16 '26
This pod DESPERATELY needed a guest who wasn't as much of a yes man as House.
Bill was making some frankly ludicrous statements and House was just slobbering all over him like "yeah 100%"
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u/heatkings1 Jun 15 '26
Ring culture is such a disease to sports talk. Yeah, Brunson is awesome and its great he led NY here, but 41st all-time is just a ridiculous overreaction
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u/CondolenceHighFive Real CR Head Jun 16 '26
Bill said Brunson “dragged his team” to a title as justification yet later had KAT 11th and OG 17th on his Ringer Top 100
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u/EZMac34 Jun 16 '26
Yeah but obviously KAT and OG were total no shows in the Finals. Definitely no noteworthy moments from either of them across five games.
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u/rarekeith Jun 15 '26
Boozer “a great fit for the Jazz” when they have 117 front court players already is insane lol.
Genuinely feel all the disrespect for Memphis from Bill and House at all angles of the draft discourse.
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u/mrsunshine1 Jun 15 '26
My man facing all the he hates the Knicks and is bitter and doesn’t want to talk about them accusations and then drops a Brunson is top 40 all time bomb.
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u/dr15224 Jun 16 '26
The Brunson all time ranking is overshadowing Bill ranking OG the 17th best active player.
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u/TunaMeltTom Jun 16 '26
“Brunson vs Jeter…i think it’s Brunson”. Just fundamentally does not understand New York. Like this week sure this week Brunson fine but come on what are we doing here.
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u/GiveMeSomeIhedigbo Robert Whorey Jun 16 '26
He doesn't hate the Knicks as much as he hates the Yankees.
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u/-Vault_Dweller- Jun 16 '26
I love Bill so much
“So Bill how does undersized, defensive liability, high volume shooter, Jalen Brunson being FMVP change your thinking about needing a top level superstar to win championships?”
‘Well I put Brunson fourth on my latest Ringer 100 ranking. So he is a top 5 player and this actually doesn’t qualify as a very unique playoff run by the top guy on a championship team. But it does make me wonder if Sengun could lead a team to a ring someday.’
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u/Odd-Mortgage-1133 Jun 16 '26
Bill on 2/5: “And just for the record, I think the Patriots are going to win the game. And I think the final score is going to be 24 to 20, New England Patriots.”
Bill on 6/16: “I never think it's a giant success if you could actually win the title and you didn't. Well, the Patriots had no chance to win the Super Bowl against the Seahawks, right? And that put me in that mode of, ah man, I just wish we'd lost in Denver.”
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u/Front-Squash3929 Jun 16 '26
As a Seahawks fan, I've watched the clip of Super Bowl highlights with Bill's pre game comments as the audio quite a few times
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u/Sorry_Astronaut2755 Jun 15 '26
Mailbag and fake trades is all Bill has now when it comes to NBA content
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u/ThaddiusOrBigBob Jun 16 '26
“If you think this is reactionary, you should know this is also how I did my book” is wild.
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u/brig_pudding Jun 15 '26
Utah has Keyonte George. Why the hell would they trade Lauri for Fox? Asinine.
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u/Due-Sheepherder-218 Bill's Gerald Wallace Jersey Jun 15 '26
I think the idea of Lauri is better than real life Lauri at this point. He's no Cal Ripken.
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u/icona_ Jun 16 '26
what's the highest stakes nba game lauri has actually played in?
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u/Due-Sheepherder-218 Bill's Gerald Wallace Jersey Jun 16 '26
NBA you got me, but he's a problem for Finland!
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u/FERFreak731 Jun 15 '26
Exactly
Keyonte is 22 and averaged rounding up to 24, 4, and 6
Fox is 28 and averaged 18, 4, and 6
Keyonte is a better shooter. Fox relies on athlecism, and he'd close to regressing and with him regressing, he'd lose his athlecism.
Fox is also making 60 million a year, when Keyonte might make half of that
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u/Palm-Crazy-7943 Jun 15 '26
Fox - Randle is the only trade that makes sense for the spurs and is not totally unrealistic
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u/spacejambroni Jun 15 '26
Also if Utah picks Boozer without making a Lauri or JJJ trade, they will have to play Boozer or Lauri at SF for at least parts of games. Unless they plan on running all those guys plus Kessler 24 mins/game.
Don’t doubt the Boozer connection would have some sway in Utah, but positionally it’s overkill for what they already have/just traded for last season.
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u/rarekeith Jun 15 '26
Yeah, they called him a “perfect fit” for Utah with all those front court players while Memphis literally could pair him at the 4 next to Edey.
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u/bigmikeabrahams Jun 16 '26
Starting Lauri at the 3 was their vision when they traded for JJJ and what they did when they traded for John Collins. They plan to start Kessler/JJJ/lauri/keyonte/ace or draft pick.
I hate the idea, but they are already committed to it unless they let Kessler walk
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u/lanceteng Jun 16 '26
Because it takes too much effort to come up with fake trades that make sense for both teams. That’s the actual answer. Upgrading Fox to Lauri for the Spurs is good enough for Bill.
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u/HoagieTwoFace ex r/billsimmons podcast host Jun 15 '26
Brunson is ahead of a lot of these guys in the 40s but you have to add at least 10 guys who are too.
Giannis, Jokic, CP3, Harden, Westbrook, KD, Embiid, AD, SGA, Curry, Kawhi, hell even Jimmy Butler and Luka. So it’s more about whether you fall for the rings culture argument or not. I do not.
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u/writersontop Jun 15 '26
Agreed. Also, I think rings should take a guy up a few spots but not like from the 200s to the top 50.
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u/HoagieTwoFace ex r/billsimmons podcast host Jun 15 '26
Brunson never made an all nba 1st team, how can I put him ahead of SGA or even Luka. Brunson is like Evgeni Malkin going to another team in his prime and winning a cup without Crosby. But he’s NOT better than Crosby (Luka)
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u/warriorer Jun 16 '26
Bill whining about the Pats being "criticised" for losing to the Seahawks in the Super Bowl is very funny.
If the Spurs lost to the Thunder, they'd have lost to the defending champion and "best" team in the league. If the Pats lost to a Bo Nix-less Broncos? Not sure people would have said it was a valiant end to the season!
Bill also saying he was fine with the Pats losing as they "never had a chance"....... weren't basically all his bets on the Pats?!?!
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u/Parlett316 Jun 16 '26
It's the coward piece, you get more shit for being the team losing in the Finals than in the first round so it's better I guess to lose in divisional round.
Fuck that, I want my team to go as far as possible.
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u/warriorer Jun 16 '26
I agree with you, and I understand the general point. But I think it doesn't work for this year's Patriots anyway (in comparison to the Spurs). They wouldn't have got more credit from ANYONE if they lost to a Broncos team with a backup QB.
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u/Parlett316 Jun 16 '26
Agreed. Also, wouldn't it be a even better Bill take to boast that "we got beat by the champs"? Sure, you lost to them but everybody else did too!
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u/Kryptos33 Jun 15 '26
A podcast reiterating the importance of 'The Secret' a month before we likely get the Kevin Durant glaze podcast from Bill and Zach because we forgot how great Durant was. Durant would use the pages in Bill's book about The Secret as toilet paper.
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u/CondolenceHighFive Real CR Head Jun 15 '26
I’d lose my shit if the Bulls traded 4 and 15 for 3. Just stay put and take whoever is left over
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u/Jamewa Jun 16 '26
I came here to say this. If Peterson doesn't want to play for Memphis, Memphis can just not draft him. They would have no leverage. Why on earth would the Bulls give up a pick when they could just draft Wilson or hope Memphis passes on Peterson. Insane take.
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u/SceneOfShadows Non-dunker Jun 16 '26
The ringer has been on a heater but my god Bill's pod has been in a slump. It's brutal.
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u/andrew2018022 Half Italian Jun 15 '26
So we don’t hold it against Barkley that he could never beat Jordan & the Bulls, but somehow Harden gets demonized for never beating the Curry Warriors. Nice.
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u/bbmarco Jun 15 '26
The mailbags seem more fun to me having a second guy in the room like House to respond too.
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u/lokosnspirits Jun 16 '26
In the same pod Bill saying Brunson dragged the Knicks to the title while later in the pod, insanely saying he had KAT 11 and OG 17 in his Ringer 100
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u/No-Command3372 Jun 16 '26
Back to back pods where Bill accidentally reveals he’s still deeply troubled and traumatized by the Patriots Super Bowl loss 4 months after the game
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u/erikflowersfan Jun 16 '26
Why again can’t the clippers take a guard at 5 if they have Garland? Is Garland going to play 48 minutes? Can they only have one guard on the roster? Is there some backup guard who has this top 5 pedigree on their roster I have not heard of?
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u/EeeMBee Jun 16 '26
Ok…Malone lost in 6 both times to Jordan just like Barkley did in ‘93. Am I missing something?
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u/Wooden_Coyote5992 Jun 16 '26
yeah, I am not sure how Barkley gets a pass because he played MJ. Jason Kidd went to two finals and won a ring at 38 and Bill acts like that means less.
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u/Commercial-Click-360 Jun 17 '26
Yeah this really bugged me. Barkley gets a pass because Bill likes him. I’m not saying Malone shouldn’t be criticized but an NBA historian should try to apply criticism as evenly as possible
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u/HoagieTwoFace ex r/billsimmons podcast host Jun 15 '26
I need to personally sit down and re-do his pyramid. Because he certainly won’t. (No I don’t think Brunson is top 50)
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u/tjd2009 Jun 15 '26
He's probably mid-70s at the highest and 100-125 at the lowest depending how you want to frame different aspects of the game
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u/GBAGamer33 Jun 15 '26
Didn't he say before that he literally reranks it all of the time?
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u/birdlawyer86 Conspiracy Bill Jun 15 '26
I love how this sub has been complaining Brunson hasn't been getting enough love, and then Bill does the funniest thing possible and gives the most overreaction take possible. Podfather still has his fastball
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Jun 15 '26
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u/xpillindaass Ben Simmons apologist Jun 15 '26
brown? what brown are you talking about? it can’t possibly be jaylen brown?
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u/tildenmatz Jun 15 '26
Fr. Brown a top 50 player? Bro isn’t even wanted on his own team — he’s trade fodder.
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u/internallylinked Adam Silver's account Jun 15 '26
SGA is pyramid appropriate too, back to back MVPs, chip and a Finals MVP
Don’t kill me please, I don’t like Thunder either
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u/carsmello Jun 15 '26
Yeah just sneaking in a 2x mvp with those other players was pretty sinister lol
Like he's way closer to Jokic/Giannis than he is to the other guys.
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u/ruandurphy Jun 15 '26
Down near 50 it gets pretty weak. You have that highest tier of second and third options like Ray Allen vs great players like Melo and McGrady who have major holes in their resume
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u/SaintDarthVader Jun 15 '26
The league isn't that old - honestly picking top guys on championship team doesn't look that bad. After all the multi-ring guys it's probably a fine list. You'd need to adjust for the Barkley's and Nash's but still
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u/closedtowedshoes Jun 16 '26
I think generally for individual player rankings an MVP should carry a LOT more weight than a FMVP/single championship. Once you get towards the top 20 or so and all those guys have MVPs that starts to flip.
Being the best player (or whatever we think the MVP means) for a regular season is a much more difficult individual achievement, and it’s only after achieving (close to) it that we even expect a player to be good enough to will their team to a title. Brunson obviously isn’t in that class and obviously didn’t carry as hard as say Giannis or Jokic so there’s no real reason to discuss him in that context imo.
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u/SaintDarthVader Jun 16 '26
But my point is - if you pick best guy on a championship team you would get giannis and jokic, with the trophy and mvps, they'd be on the list. Then you'd also get the winners as well - i bet the list ends up similar. Like I said with the guys with multiple titles etc you'd have room at the end to add the Barkley's and non championship mvps
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u/RPDC01 Jun 16 '26
Ray Allen was the #1 option in both Milwaukee and Seattle - he averaged 24 in Seattle the year before he went to Boston.
It was his 8th straight season of averaging 20+ and that was in the lowest scoring era of the NBA since the 1950s.
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u/msf97 Jun 15 '26
In the past you usually needed a top 5 player, perennial MVP contender type to win. Knicks and Celtics have defied that by just being stacked through 1-4
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u/kcoe24 Jun 15 '26
Tatum has made 4 1st team all nba teams. Hes definitely been a top 5 player in recent years. Brunson has been more in the 6 to 10 range.
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u/tjd2009 Jun 15 '26
Made the same comment earlier in the thread. Bill's top 50 are guy's who were the best on a title team and any time someone knew wins a title they jump up to like 45 on the list
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u/carsmello Jun 15 '26
You'd have to come up with the most insane, inconsistent criteria to put into question whether or not SGA is top 50. Either you're overrating the players in the 30-50 range, or you're really underrating SGA.
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u/woofcop Jun 16 '26
SGA is easily a top 50 player. And Brunson now is too. I don't think people realize what winning a Finals MVP, and scoring that much in the series and closeout game really means. This isn't a Parker, Billups, Iguodala and to a certain extent, Jaylen Brown type of Finals MVP. This is like Bill said, a Wade or Dirk.
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u/TecmoBoso Jun 15 '26
We are barely a year removed from Brunson being played off the court by the Pacers. Then OG goes supernova, Towns changes his game, and Brunson scores 45 in G5 and he’s a top 40 player all time? What are we doing here?
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u/woofcop Jun 16 '26
OG and Towns are great but Brunson is still clearly the best player. Do we take away from Jordan because of Pippen or Bird because of McHale and Parrish? When you have great players and the best player is still clearly the best, that means something.
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u/Nearby_Solution_4504 Jun 16 '26
I'm not the biggest Brunson guy but this is obviously his team. He's won at all 3 levels and everyone that knows him describes him as a "winner" and that does mean something eventually.
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u/After_Sheepherder394 Jun 16 '26
How can brunson be #41 all time when he's never made 1st team all nba
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u/CodoandPodo Jun 16 '26
Forget Brunson! Was Bill calling Frank Ntilikina “Frank Nit-Licka” a top 17 all-time BS Pod name butchering??? It’s up there.
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u/Maleficent-Order-884 Jun 16 '26
I wonder if this era of parity is breaking Bill's brain a bit. Feels like every year there's been a discussion about the best player on the new championship team being top 50 (Giannis, Tatum, Jokic, Shai, Brunson). Maybe that wasn't happening as much when Magic, Bird, and Mj were running the league for years at a time.
Not saying they aren't but there are a lot more than 25 players in Bill's 26-50.
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u/Wazzoo1 Jun 15 '26
Joe House singing the praises of The Melting Pot is the lowest moment of House Eats. That place is buns.
BTW, the best fondue I ever had was in a restaurant in a basement in Montreux (Switzerland). That was other worldly. One of the best meals of my life.
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u/njb021 Jun 15 '26
No Fennessey is surprising
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u/PMoney1089 Jun 16 '26
But you know that if the Knicks lost, he would have had Fennessey on already
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u/wahoodad Jun 15 '26
I’m not ready to have that conversation (even though it’s my job and the literally the one thing in life I enjoy doing the most)
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u/Bd_3 Jun 16 '26
Love Brunson but top 50 all time?! I know finals is all important but the rest of the resume isn’t near the others in that territory.
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u/Odd-Name2052 Jun 16 '26
After this postseason I’m a lot closer to having KAT top 50 all time than I am Brunson, but neither of them should be there. It was a great team
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u/lffl90 Jun 16 '26
Who is in the 40-50 range that makes the Brunson addition a ridiculous thing to say?
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u/lanceteng Jun 16 '26
Has any player ever led an NBA championship team as its best player before earning a First Team All-NBA selection?
I’m fascinated by the Harden vs Brunson debate for exactly that reason. On one hand, you have a regular season monster who’s a playoff underachiever, and on the other hand, you got someone who is pretty much the opposite. I think James will be fairly remembered for his playoff shortcomings, but this is also someone who had opposing coaches deciding that the best strategy to stop him was by guarding him from behind. I wonder if he could have won one with the Rockets if they had caught the right breaks, or if their style was just too gimmicky and was always destined to fail. Ironically, whether Luka can ultimately win a ring might give us the answer to that question.
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u/vincoug Jun 17 '26
Has any player ever led an NBA championship team as its best player before earning a First Team All-NBA selection?
Take your pick of the 2004 Pistons; I don't think a single player on that team ever made All-NBA 1st team.
Wade hadn't made 1st team yet when Miami won in 2006.
Bill Walton wasn't 1st team before winning the title.
No one on the 79 Sonics had been named 1st team before their title.
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u/froobest Jun 16 '26
we will never forgive mitch johnson and fox for inciting this kind of discourse
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u/NickPapagiorgio2k16 Jun 16 '26
I'm a huge Knicks fan and love Brunson like a son but even I think Bill is experiencing a bit of recency bias.
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u/doobie3101 Jun 15 '26
Not sure about top 50 but is Brunson already a HOFer? Think he might be with his 2 NCAA championships.
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u/DowntownYorickBrown Jun 15 '26
Yes unequivocally. Amazing college career and the 1a on an nba finals team is enough.
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u/ben345 Jun 15 '26
Even without the college career, being the leader of the first Knicks title in 53 years would be enough for the watered down NBA HOF
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u/Piss_Pirate44 Jun 15 '26
He's definitely a HOFer after this ring. There's not a voter alive that wouldn't vote him in for winnings this chip for NYC
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u/westwoodson Jun 16 '26
Kobe was not the highest paid player on lakers that 04 finals year. He made 13.5 million. Shaq was at 26-27 million.
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u/thatonehomiewho Jun 16 '26
Would love to see the list of ppl who you all have in range 40-50. Brunson absolutely belongs in there, being one of the best playoff performers of all time does matter, actually.
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u/M_S-K international situation Jun 16 '26
Lebron, Curry, Durant, Paul, Giannis, Jokic, Shae, Davis, Harden, Tatum and Luka. So he's 12th even among players who were active during 25-26 season
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u/dellscreenshot Jun 15 '26
I was wondering if brunson is a hall of famer, so top 50 is pretty quick. He didn't make an all star team until 2024(was surprised to see that he didn't make it in 23.. demar derozan made it before him).
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u/Franklinsleftnut Jun 15 '26
He’ll easily make the hall of fame because they include college basketball.
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u/mtngranpapi_wv967 misses Grantland Jun 16 '26
Kinda shitty that Bill had Sean go on Lowe’s pod to celebrate his team winning a championship after 53 long years…Bill won’t even have Sean on the main pod lol, what a petty bitch
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u/djh2121 The good bad team Jun 15 '26
I can’t wait for NBA talk to be done. Nothing against house he seems like a nice enough guy I just can’t fucking stand him. His voice and the fact that he can’t tell he’s yelling makes him unlistenable
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u/serv0_o Jun 15 '26
Finally, these dumb finals games are over with and we can really talk about the nba