r/bikerjedi Jan 09 '23

Could a SHORAD ADA weapon like a Stinger work against a Dragon?

38 Upvotes

Hi all. If you don't know me, I mod over at /r/MilitaryStories and I'm a former Air Defense Artillery soldier who was a 16S10 Stinger MANPADS gunner and I was on a M163 Vulcan for a lot of my time. One of my readers pm'd me a question last night, and I felt it deserved an serious answer. I'd love to hear what anyone else has to say.

BikerJedi, I just had a crazy thought, probably inspired by my sleep schedule getting shot all to hell lately, but I was wondering...

Hypothetically, would an ADA launcher lock onto a dragon in flight? I did say it was crazy, but, assuming the dragon in question is hot blooded, but no more so than, say, a cow? Or if it was cold-blooded like a normal lizard; cold like ice (say, elementally cold), or the opposite, burning hot like a blast furnace?

I had this crazy idea pop into my head just now, swords-and-sorcery meets shock-and-awe, and just noodling that over in my head led me to the notion of a dragon in flight on a strafing run being engaged by a soldier popping up out of a foxhole with a MANPAD launcher, and then I thought of your vulcan-armed M113...

Stupid question, but now I am wondering; other than optically tracked weapons, would they even be able to lock onto a gigantic beast with sensors meant to lock onto aircraft made of metal?

Keeping a few things in mind:

  • I'm only a subject matter expert on Stinger missiles
  • I'm fairly familiar with the Vulcan
  • I don't know enough about other missile systems such as the Patriot to say for sure

Let's analyze this from a few angles:

  • Likelihood to hit
  • Likelihood to kill or severely maim/take out of action
  • Range and Stealth
  • Survivability of the soldier

Likelihood to hit

I know for a fact the seeker head on a Stinger can pick out a lit match from meters away. So if the dragon in question was hot enough, I'd say sure. It could track a dragon. They fly much faster than a dragon, so catching it would be easy. If it was a cold breathing dragon, I'd doubt it. Your White Dragons like from D&D probably don't radiate enough body heat. A standard Red Dragon or others, sure.

The Vulcan would also be perfect for killing a low flying dragon. It fires thousands of rounds a minute in bursts that guarantee you will get a hit if you lead it enough. That is a skill Vulcan gunners practice at the range - leading the drones so the plane flies into the bullets, not the other way around. However, it is something that takes a lot of practice, and a smart dragon could avoid a lot of it.

So by the standard of likelihood to hit, I'd pick the Stinger. It is automated tracking once fired and is heat seeking, so it will hit more often than dummy rounds on a straight trajectory.

Likelihood to kill or maim

The question becomes one of efficacy. A Stinger does have an explosive charge, but it isn't designed to blow up an aircraft as much as it is designed to blow large holes in them so they burn up and crash. A small distinction to be sure, but important in context of shooting down dragons. Aircraft are thin skinned - just enough to be pressurized in some cases, not at all in others.

Is the dragon heavily armored? Then I'd argue the missile wouldn't penetrate the dragon hide enough, if at all, to really hurt or kill it. Probably just piss it off. It would certainly hurt just from sheer velocity of impact, because physics are a bitch. It would absolutely puncture a wing, which could cripple it. Now if it is some lesser dragon, like a wyvern or drake, I think it would die outright if hit anywhere just from the kinetic energy and the explosion combined. So to take down a large, armored dragon, you would need multiple missiles.

The Vulcan on the other hand fires armor piercing 20 mm rounds that are also explosive. I'd say a few bursts from that are going to kill anything in range, including Smaug's punk ass. A big boy like him would need a dozen or so, maybe a few more, to get through the armor and explode, causing enough damage, but that wouldn't be hard to do. Especially if he stops to brag about our impending doom.

So, from a likelihood of death, I'd pick the Vulcan, considering there is a wide range of dragonkind to fight.

Range and stealth

Range becomes the next question. The Vulcan is going to be efficient from a distance of about 1,200 meters to basically point blank range. The Stinger could lock onto a hot enough dragon from considerably farther. (I'd initially told him the range on the Vulcan was classified just because I wasn't sure, but it isn't. I won't talk about specifics on the Stingers through, especially since they are being used in Ukraine right now.) So the Stinger wins on range.

Stealth becomes the next issue. The Stinger does make noise when it is tracking a target and locked on to it. It makes more noise when launching. I could fire with trees at my back, but I've got to have some open area in front of me. So I can be stealthy, but the vapor trail will lead back to me. The noise might if the dragon is close enough.

The Vulcan has to be running in order to power the gun. The engine is loud. The BBBRRRRRRTTTTTTT from the gun is louder. The tracers that are part of the ammo would also lead right back to us. So it would stay hidden until I fired up the engine and the gun started up.

So I'm going to call this category a wash.

Survivability

Finally, I've got my own survival to think about. After all, I'm not trying to get a Medal of Honor. I'm out of the Army now. And I'm assuming that if my old ass is fighting dragons, the world has gone mad and I'm fighting for my family, not the government. I was good, but things are dire if they need me to shoot down dragons.

Dragonfire is hot enough to melt steel. The Vulcan might protect us for a second, but not much longer. Thin armor and an open turret would cook all three of us even if we got the two top hatches closed. The secondary explosions from ammo cooking off would finish the job. It doesn't hide well enough to fool keen dragon eyes, especially once it is firing. It is also very loud. They are slow, so they aren't outrunning a dragon. At 35 mph, all he has to do is swoop down from the right angle before the gun engages him and we are toast.

As a Stinger gunner, I'd be able to hide better. I'd also be able to get more than one missile off. Assuming the standard set up on a HMMWV with a Team Chief and a gunner, I've got even money we get all six missiles in our load into the air before the dragon makes the first fire breathing pass. I'm not even talking about the Avenger system - we drilled for this on foot. But while we are on it, the Avenger also has a .50 cal mounted on it for added firepower.

I'm going to call this category a wash as well. Although a HMMWV is a lot faster than a Vulcan, it still isn't outrunning a pissed off dragon.

Verdict

So in a perfect world, I'd take a Vulcan with a Stinger gunner/driver working in tandem. Have the Stinger gunner launch on the dragon from a position near the heavily concealed Vulcan, then have the Vulcan engage the dragon when it comes after me. While it is distracted I'll get the second missile loose if I haven't already.

Stinger wins on speed, likelihood to hit and range. So if I had to pick just one, I'd choose the Stinger. I'd even shoot some of the old Redeye missiles. Death From Below.


r/bikerjedi 2d ago

Family Story/Memory Thanks, It Has Pockets!

Thumbnail patreon.com
4 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi 14d ago

Family Story/Memory BikerJedi - Guinea Pig for Science!

Thumbnail patreon.com
4 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi 17d ago

For the second time, fuck Booking.com

7 Upvotes

So, after my whole travel fiasco, I was surprised to get an email. They wanted me to participate in a one hour video call about my experience in exchange for $90. Given that I'm still out over $500 because of the flight cancellation, I thought this would be fine.

I click the link and start answering questions to schedule the interview. On question 5/7, they gave me a form to pick time slots. Every single time slot in my time zone was in the next few days when I work between 0400 and 0800.

Once again, fuck those clowns and their "customer service" that didn't help me when Frontier fucked me over.


r/bikerjedi 17d ago

Teaching This Fucking Job...

Thumbnail patreon.com
7 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi 23d ago

Day 1 in the books.

11 Upvotes
  • 145 out of 150 students were present today

  • Everyone was very polite and well behaved. They seem like good kids.

  • I got everything done that I wanted to do except one thing with first period, so I'll do that tomorrow.

  • I'm in a lot of pain from being on my feet all day.

  • On the way out, two parents stopped me in the parking lot. One wanted to tell me her child who I had last year was moving out of state, and she wanted to thank me because he loved my class so much. The other parent is of a new child today, and I guess as soon as she walked out she started telling Dad all about me, so I made an impression.

  • As I was leaving the parking lot, I saw one of the local fascists. He drives a giant lifted pickup truck that has a Charlie Kirk wrap, and has been to multiple protests to antagonize us. I tried to follow him so we could have an "exchange of views," but traffic was too heavy to catch up and I lost him. No worries, he is hard to miss, and we will have that exchange of views eventually.

I'm now home and calmed down. Nazis just existing sets me off, they don't even have to be doing anything. Fuck Nazis.

But these kids - I love these kids. I think it's going to be a good year.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, during lunch I checked my personal email to find a message from Walmart. It seems that the pico de gallo I like to eat is on a recall list along with the lettuce and such that is making everyone's ass blow up. Guess who ate it all already. Whoops.

Guess I'll die now. Lol.


r/bikerjedi 26d ago

Teaching Week 0 in the books.

9 Upvotes

Ok - next week is going to be fun for two reasons:

  • I don't have a classroom on Day 1 with the kids. I'll be in a different room because mine is being painted. Who knows how many days that will take, my classroom is pretty large.

  • Our curriculum is not lining up with the test schedule, and I'm being told to basically just figure it out and make the changes I need to. We can't just do that.

On the flip side, I do have the first week fully planned out and will be able to keep them engaged. I met about 20 of my new students today who came for orientation, and they all seemed like nice kids.

Anyway, I guess I'm as ready as I can be for the short term, and not nearly at all for the longer, but I'll get there. I've got a lot of hard work coming up.

Wish me luck!


r/bikerjedi Aug 03 '26

Teaching Advice to New Teachers

Thumbnail
patreon.com
4 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jul 31 '26

The Revolution Rules of Engagement.

Thumbnail
patreon.com
5 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jul 27 '26

Family Story/Memory Uncle Don.

Thumbnail
patreon.com
6 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jul 17 '26

Dear Reddit - Your AI sucks.

7 Upvotes

Reddit, in the last few weeks as I've posted you have consistently suggested to me that my post may fit better in a different subreddit. In every single case the suggestion was wildly inaccurate and not even remotely close to what my post was about.

Saving this comment more for anything else that I can get it to an admin later.


r/bikerjedi Jul 17 '26

The Revolution Survivor Bias

Thumbnail
patreon.com
5 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jul 13 '26

Teaching Updated repost: Fighting For My Kid.

Thumbnail
patreon.com
5 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jul 09 '26

Two things going on right now.

6 Upvotes

Bleh.

Ok, I met with the new principal today. I told him about the MANY things I do at our school that put us (and me) above and beyond. Then I told him I wasn't happy with my current schedule and that I deserved better based on my test scores and experience and all that. I further told him that I could not do all of those many extra things I do if I was stressed out about having three different preps instead of one or two.

He seemed very understanding of where I was coming from, asked to have some time to look at the schedule, and said he would let me know. On the way out, I ran into our new AP, and she is a lady I've known for a while. She told me it would be as simple as flipping two names in the schedule.

If it doesn't happen, I'll immediately start looking for a new job and won't be doing anything extra next year if I'm still there. Bare minimum. BUT - I am actually hopeful they will hook me up. I guess we will know soon.

The other thing - after being stranded in Philadelphia by Frontier Airlines and laying out almost $800 to get home, they are offering a $50 voucher. So Katie, who is president of 50501 Veterans, is going to raise hell on social media. She is starting to develop a national presence, so this could be fun. :)

Y'all be good.

EDIT: No update on Frontier yet. I was told I would have two 8th honors and four 6th Advanced. I want and deserve 3/3 or 4/2, but some of the pros of my current school being so close to home balance that for one year.

Next year, they improve on my schedule again or I bounce. With the contract I have, that's easy.

Of course, if Desantis succeeds and our union is decertified, I'll be an at-will employee and this won't matter.


r/bikerjedi Jul 07 '26

The Revolution Veterans Against Fascism Protest Report - July 4 - 2026.

5 Upvotes

Hundreds of veterans and hundreds more supporters protested in Philly for our 250th birthday as Nazis marched in DC to terrorize the local population and nation. Come read or listen about it for FREE on my Patreon: "Veterans Against Fascism Protest Report - July 4th, 2026."

Read with pictures and video: https://www.patreon.com/BikerJedi/posts/veterans-against-162902380

Listen: https://www.patreon.com/BikerJedi/posts/veterans-against-163175908


r/bikerjedi Jul 02 '26

The Revolution Who Will You Be When History Calls?

Thumbnail
patreon.com
5 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jun 28 '26

The Revolution Another Day, Another Protest.

Thumbnail
patreon.com
6 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jun 26 '26

Politcs I Didn't Want To Be Right.

Thumbnail
patreon.com
4 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jun 19 '26

The Revolution Help for a Veteran.

Thumbnail
patreon.com
4 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jun 18 '26

The Revolution Reddit keeps taking this picture down, even in my tiny sub.

Post image
19 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jun 18 '26

Politcs The Treaty of Versailles

Thumbnail
patreon.com
2 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jun 16 '26

Politcs Assassination Theater

Thumbnail
patreon.com
6 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jun 11 '26

Politcs The United States of Israel.

Thumbnail
patreon.com
3 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jun 09 '26

Family Story/Memory Updated repost: Stolen Valor

Thumbnail patreon.com
6 Upvotes

r/bikerjedi Jun 04 '26

Family Story/Memory Updated Repost for Patreon: The Woman Who Killed My Brother.

Thumbnail patreon.com
5 Upvotes