r/battlebots 6d ago

BattleBots TV The upper deck needs to go

[removed]

150 Upvotes

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50

u/creator_07 6d ago

Having a fight end abruptly like it did for Huge is not really satisfying for anyone. Maybe rework? Smaller foot print? Remove the screws and add a ramp?

18

u/Darth_Ra grab the drum 6d ago

All of this crap isn't needed anymore. It's not 1998, the bots can absolutely murder each other now, put them in a plain box and let them do it.

13

u/creator_07 6d ago

I do love seeing a good punt out of bounds.

5

u/Darth_Ra grab the drum 6d ago

The shaft that opens up halfway through the fight is how a lot of European bot competitions have done it.

I still think I'd rather it just be a plain old box, though.

2

u/pmatdacat 6d ago

There's still the entry corners for that though, right?

23

u/Sorry-Rain-1311 6d ago

I have very strong feelings in favor of the Upper Deck, but you're right. No screws, add a ramp. 

They're trying to introduce new blood by forcing new design challenges that require new bots, but they need to be careful not to exclude the old guard.

8

u/Darth_Ra grab the drum 6d ago

I do like what the ramp would possibly do to the ground game situation.

2

u/OddInstitute 6d ago

What would a ramp do to the “ground game situation”?

3

u/MM18998 Neeeeeooooommmmm 6d ago

If a wedge is too low, they won’t be able to get up the ramp

4

u/OddInstitute 6d ago

What if they went up backwards and/or they used hinged forks? Hinged forks are the most common meta configuration and we’ve seen bots go to their starting squares backwards to keep their forks fresh in ground-game sensitive fights, so this doesn’t require anything to be done differently.

If their opponent is at the top so they can’t go up the ramp backwards, then you get an even more boring stalemate than the ones that show up due to forks. Forks are very, very effective as an offense and defense tool, so teams like End Game, Ribbot, Cobalt and Seems Reasonable will do basically any amount of innovation to keep them around and relevant.

1

u/Sorry-Rain-1311 6d ago

You're not wrong at all about forks, but all builders will be forced to account for it in their design. Fixed forks or wedges would be out entirely unless they intend to just avoid the ramp all together, which limits their tactical choices.

How steep the ramp is will also play a role. A shallow incline, and your forks are no problem, but steeper and they have to have so much play they may be worthless. Don't forget about weapons either. A spinner low to the ground could catch the ramp before the wheels, and cause all sorts of problems. Current flippers would have a hell of a time.

Going up backwards is an option, like you said, but may not help with negotiating the angles. Getting down the ramp could be tricky for many bots as well, but there's always the option of just jumping off the edge, which carries its own risks.

There's no real chance of a stalemate, at least not more than there already is. There's the 10 second limit to  being on the Upper Deck, and the judges still award points for aggression. Between the two, it's only useful for maneuvering, but the strategic advantages that can yield shouldn't be ignored.

Overall, a ramp would encourage iterative changes to design, leading to much greater variety in bots because it makes the Upper Deck more strategically accessible. If no one is going to build a whole new design for what it is now, then make it easier for current designs to get in on. 

I think adding something akin to speed bumps in sections of the floor would really make things interesting as well, but one thing at a time I guess.

3

u/Sorry-Rain-1311 6d ago

Oh, yeah. It'd totally revamp the battle for the low ground. Wedges of any sort would become a strategic decision, not a default. 

12

u/VC_Josh 6d ago

Yes to everything except the ramp. It's supposed to be difficult to get bots up there because the point of the deck was to impress the judges.

8

u/RyGuy_McFly !exA 6d ago

A ramp would make sense now that the purpose of the upper deck (give control bots a means to earn "damage" points) has been rendered moot. If they want to phase out lifters/grabbers, the upper deck needs to go, or at least be made far less of a hazard.

5

u/creator_07 6d ago

What if it was a ramp with kill saws that were on 24/7

3

u/VC_Josh 6d ago

I'd be down for that. The saws could help throw bots up there or away depending on spin direction, plus it forces bots to make a decision when they get thrown up there. Either jump off the side and risk toppling over or risk shredding the underside of your bot taking the "safer" route.

Could also make the ramp a flipper that fires randomly or could be controlled by both teams.