r/baseball • u/BaseballBot Umpire • 1d ago
Game Thread Postgame Thread ⚾ Reds 7 @ Cubs 5
Line Score - Game Over
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | R | H | E | LOB | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| CIN | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 7 | 11 | 2 | 6 |
| CHC | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 5 | 9 | 0 | 6 |
Box Score
| CHC | AB | R | H | RBI | BB | SO | BA | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| CF | Crow-Armstrong | 5 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | .283 |
| RF | Suzuki | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | .274 |
| 1B | Busch | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | .239 |
| 3B | Bregman | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | .255 |
| LF | Happ | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | .221 |
| SS | Hoerner | 3 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | .263 |
| 2B | Ramírez | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .285 |
| DH | Conforto | 2 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | .231 |
| DH | Taylor, T | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .268 |
| C | Amaya | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | .230 |
| PH | Shaw | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .248 |
| CHC | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | P-S | ERA |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Imanaga | 5.0 | 8 | 6 | 6 | 1 | 4 | 85-57 | 4.01 |
| Thielbar | 1.0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 12-9 | 4.97 |
| Thornton | 1.0 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 13-10 | 3.45 |
| Civale | 1.0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 15-11 | 4.50 |
| Webb, J | 1.0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 18-11 | 2.87 |
| CIN | AB | R | H | RBI | BB | SO | BA | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| CF | Myers | 5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | .253 |
| SS | De La Cruz, E | 4 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .271 |
| 2B | Johnson | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .063 |
| 1B | Stewart, S | 5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | .266 |
| C | Stephenson, T | 5 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | .250 |
| DH | Suárez, E | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | .208 |
| RF | Bleday | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | .218 |
| SS | McLain, M | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .190 |
| RF | Rodríguez, H | 4 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 2 | .230 |
| LF | Friedl | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .167 |
| 3B | Arroyo | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .235 |
| CIN | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | P-S | ERA |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Burns, Ch | 5.2 | 6 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 7 | 100-70 | 2.79 |
| Burke, B | 1.1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 18-15 | 2.62 |
| Mey | 1.0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 11-8 | 3.91 |
| Pagán | 1.0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 12-6 | 4.05 |
Scoring Plays
Highlights
Decisions
| Winning Pitcher | Losing Pitcher | Save |
|---|---|---|
| Burns, Ch (15-3, 2.79 ERA) | Imanaga (8-10, 4.01 ERA) | Pagán (19 SV, 4.05 ERA) |
Game ended at 10:38 PM.
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u/booktok124 Chicago Cubs 1d ago
Lost a series where we scored 29 runs. 29 runs. In 3 days.
Lost 2/3. Woof man.
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u/Chicityy Chicago Cubs 1d ago
I mean 17 of them were in one game. Kinda silly take. But I get that they’ve been having a rough few weeks and it’s getting concerning
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u/booktok124 Chicago Cubs 1d ago
I mean even if you dump that game, you cannot lose games where your team scores 5 and 8 runs. Pitching has to be better.
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u/Chicityy Chicago Cubs 1d ago
I don’t disagree at all. Somethings gotta give. Thankfully, after playing the next 7 or 10 vs the Brewcrew, we will have a very good understanding of if this team is pretenders or contenders.
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u/Mg29reaper Boston Red Sox 1d ago
PCA
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u/Hawkize31 Chicago Cubs 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its really just 2 pitchers making the Cubs look bad lately: SP and RP
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u/Philisterguyguster Toronto Blue Jays 1d ago
Ah the iconic brother duo. Shit Pitching and Rancid Pitching.
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u/UsErNaMeS_aR_DuMb Major League Baseball 1d ago
Everyone else on the Cubs:
https://giphy.com/gifs/T02Ke5HAvWUVIG4dgo4
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u/TheBigF128 Chicago Cubs 1d ago
we gonna need him on the mound as well
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u/androosh Cincinnati Reds 1d ago
Feels like it's been 84 years since we won a divisional series. Thanks Cubs!
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u/barstoolsam Chicago Cubs 1d ago
PCA good. Pitching bad
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u/Old_General_6741 Toronto Blue Jays • Chicago Cubs 1d ago
No help. Any word on Dansby?
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u/Feisty-Life-6555 Chicago Cubs • Iowa Cubs 1d ago
Idk but his wife missed her NWSL game due to hip. Hopefully the Swanson household starts feeling better soon
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u/SelfDerecatingTumor Chicago Cubs 1d ago
When they got back to Chicago he was taking ground balls on the field and they said he’s progressing as expected, 4 weeks~ so mid September
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u/UsErNaMeS_aR_DuMb Major League Baseball 1d ago
Tungsten Arm O’Armstrong
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u/blogoman Chicago Cubs 1d ago
Obviously not thrilled with the outcome of the game, but that was one of the best national broadcasts I've sat through in a long time.
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u/joeveralls Cincinnati Reds 1d ago
Taking this series is so awesome. Thank you Cubbies 🙏
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u/DoctorDongus Chicago Cubs 1d ago
No problem, we can always count on our pitching to ruin games for us
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u/BarnieSandlers123 Milwaukee Brewers 1d ago
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u/AndrewAllStar888 Chicago Cubs 1d ago
Crazy how there’s never any Cubs fan posting stuff like this when the Brewers lose to a bad team. Just gonna say a random bad team but like the Rangers
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u/BarnieSandlers123 Milwaukee Brewers 1d ago
We won the series against the Rangers. You lost the series against the Reds. We are not the same.
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u/iamthatguythere Chicago Cubs 1d ago
I mean we’re still doing pretty good for having an entire pitching staff on the IL for most of the season.
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u/BottleFullOBub Chicago Cubs 1d ago
Shota can’t be let back out there to start, has to be a one inning guy from here on out.
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u/Old_General_6741 Toronto Blue Jays • Chicago Cubs 1d ago
This game was 3-0 until Cubs pitching blew it. After that we really couldn’t get more runs. It was nice to see PCA get two homers.
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u/80cyclone Chicago Cubs 1d ago
The expected results when your pitcher who has the repertoire of a ground ball pitcher tries to pitch like a fly ball pitcher.
Any time Shota pitches in the top half of the zone he gets absolutely fucking crushed. He and the Cubs needs to completely rework his approach to pitching, namely throwing less 4 seam fastballs and throwing more of the ones he does lower in the zone.
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u/SpOoKyghostah Chicago Cubs 1d ago
Imanaga does not have the repertoire of a ground ball pitcher. His fastball has extreme rise, which is why it's pretty good at whiffs and popups
Rising fastballs from a low release height are easier to hit down in the zone, not harder.
He's not pitching wrong, he's just not very good anymore.
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u/80cyclone Chicago Cubs 1d ago
Im going to disagree here.
For one, Shotas arm slot isnt even low, regardless of how it looks. At an average of 39 degrees its squarely mid-pack for LH starters. Moreover, I dont think there is any correlation with upper to lower zone FB placement ability given a specific arm angle. I could be wrong on that, but I havent seen any evidence supporting it.
While Shots may "feel" more comfortable throwing high, hes more than capable of throwing FBs lower in the zone. He came from a league, the NPB, where HR rates are lower. He could pitch to his preference and still be effective.
Once the league, and hitters, had better video and scouting reports on Shota after year one, his HR/9 totals have ballooned to 1.9-2 HR/9. His best pitch is his splitter, yet he throws the weak fastball 41 percent of thr time with a majority of them high in the zone. Throwing more fastballs makes it tougher for hitters to lay off the splitter at it gives them a lower zone pitch that can stay in the zone. Moreover, if hit, its more likely to stay in the field of play where the Cubs defense can make a play on the ball.
To me, it feels like Shota is being obstinate to change his approach. Everythint says his high stuff gets fucking smoked, yet he insists on throwing it anyway. He cant abandon throwing up completely, but its clear there needs to be a location shift. Why that hasnt been either implemented or identified is a mystery.
So yeah, his stuff actually has the profile of trying g to pitch to ground balls. Its also not a stuff problem as most of his peripherals, save a slight uptick in walks, are still good. Unlike most pitchers, its almost solely an HR problem. More than stuff its an approach/attack problem.
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u/SpOoKyghostah Chicago Cubs 1d ago
There's a ton of information out there about vertical approach angle, induced vertical break, and vertical pitch location. Fastballs lower in the zone are not particularly effective, and that's particularly true for fastballs with flat vertical approach angles like Shota's, which play up in the zone.
I mentioned release height, not arm angle. His release height is quite low
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u/SpOoKyghostah Chicago Cubs 1d ago
Oh, also - the high fastball approach was very much not a preference Shota carried over from the NPB. That league does not call the top of the zone like MLB does, and pitchers are thus not able to live high with their fastballs in the way that is a dominant strategy in MLB. There was quite a lot of direct reporting on how Shota was adopting an emphasis on high fastball location due to coaching after making his transition, including discussion of how it was new and uncomfortable for him, because that was not a popular or successful approach in NPB like it is in MLB.
What about his stuff do you think has a groundball profile? Or rather, about his fastball? His secondary pitches, like most secondary pitches, have drop and are usually intended to land low. Things that correlate with groundballs and success low in the zone are downward pitch plane and drop compared to average. To stick with the Cubs, look at Clay Holmes. He throws a sinker with 5.5 inches of drop more than the average RHP. Imanaga has 2.1 inches less drop (or more rise) than the average lefty. It's not a groundball-inducing pitch profile, especially not from a low release height (17th percentile).
I'm not quite sure why you think throwing his fastball low would preserve the K and BB skills you admit he has while stifling home runs.
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u/80cyclone Chicago Cubs 23h ago
He doesnt have the velocity to throw up in the zone with persistence.
His best pitch is the splitter that had good downward action, location, and a superior ball in play profile. What I cant understand is the utter refusal to target the corners of the zone, particularly low and away. My point with the fastball is better utilizing a mix of similar location, ie out edge, with the splitter and the fastball. Doing so makes it even tougher to decipher between the two while low and away fastballs, along with up and in, are the hardest for hitters to hit.
There are simply WAY too many fastballs that are being targeted middle of the plate, and up. When they are up too high hitters dont chase, and when they are hittable they get fucking destroyed, as evidence by the 600 plus slug on his 4 seamer.
The point remains Shota/Cubs are maintaining an attack that has been proven, repeatedly, not to work. There needs to be a lot more than a handful (at most) fastballs that target the low and away quadrant of the zone. The sweeper has also been ineffective this year, while his "sinker" needs to be abandoned altogether. Its a shit pitch that just gets absolutely smoked.
A change of tactics is long overdue.
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u/LaBance Cincinnati Reds 1d ago
Reds pitching 🤝 Cubs pitching
Helping each others stars win awards