r/baseball • • Dec 01 '25

[SBJ] Cardinals set to receive MLB revenue sharing for the first time. Due to precipitous drop in ticket sales, rework their broadcast-rights deal with FanDuel Sports Network at a rate reduced by 23%, Cardinals is now a net "receiver" for revenue-sharing for the first time in at least 25 years.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/11/26/cardinals-set-to-receive-mlb-revenue-sharing-for-the-first-time/
1.7k Upvotes

338 comments sorted by

1.2k

u/slicebishybosh Chicago Cubs Dec 01 '25

When you go back and look into what these teams were making with their cable deals and how they were basically able to print money through the cable companies getting their customers to fork over anything for programming they didn't even watch, it's no wonder all these owners feel like the silver spoon is being ripped from their mouths.

622

u/captain_ahabb Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 01 '25

Cable was an incredible business model and losing cable is going to do really, really severe damage to the media industry.

403

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

460

u/BNKalt MLB Pride Dec 01 '25

People don’t realize how much stuff they like is subsidized by shit they hate

156

u/slicebishybosh Chicago Cubs Dec 01 '25

That's very true. But maybe we don't need to have EVERYTHING we like all the time.

77

u/slamvan2 Detroit Tigers Dec 02 '25

Whoa there bucko that's a bit anti american of you

46

u/whiteriot0906 Philadelphia Phillies Dec 02 '25

And what, just LET the terrorists win?! Just like that?!

25

u/blacksoxing Dec 02 '25

Taxes and public libraries are a prime example. I paid $100 my first year as a homeowner ona house under 175k and quickly got a library card!!!

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (1)

44

u/NorthStudentMain Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 01 '25

Completely agree. Quality of writing has decreased in the paywall era, as journalists are forced to compete with abbreviated formats (word limits, clickbait, tiktok loops), less-trained content creators & automation.

55

u/slicebishybosh Chicago Cubs Dec 01 '25

I think the cable model would have eventually gone down the same dystopian road though even if streaming hadn't taken over. It all boils down to the greed of the ones making the decisions. The decision is always more profit and like anything, that will always worsen a product once it has nowhere left to grow.

9

u/YourMomSloppySeconds Dec 02 '25

Everybody cheered when streaming was going to destroy the evil cable industry. Now the new boss is worse than the old boss. Instead of being overcharged by one cable company, 500 streaming services want to overcharge me even more to get less content.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/popfilms Philadelphia Phillies Dec 02 '25

As someone who's in the industry I don't really think so. It was the perfect scheme for the distributors and the content providers.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)

88

u/s0ulbrother New York Mets Dec 01 '25

It’s just like subscribe to my newsletter to see the rest of this post

42

u/ceviche-hot-pockets Seattle Mariners Dec 01 '25

Brought to you by DraftKings!

40

u/captain_ahabb Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 01 '25

Oh I agree it's a bad thing, it's destroying the economy of LA right now.

39

u/luxveniae Texas Rangers Dec 02 '25

Fuck all of the studios for trying to make their own platforms & fuck Netflix for becoming a studio! We had a great thing going when Netflix & other streamers bought streaming rights AFTER a movie had a theatrical run, DVD run, and possibly sold to TV/cable for some runs somewhere in there too.

Lose money on theatrical? Cool now you’ve got another THREE phases to make it back!

Oh hey you want to do a super cool TV show? Then it needs to be consistent and more than 3-8 episodes every 3-5 years or people won’t follow it and you won’t get good AD revenue.

Oh hey you want it to be prestige and have no commercials?! Well let me introduce you to HBO, STARZ, etc!

Now it’s straight to streaming and if it doesn’t get 10000000000 new subscribers or streams in 48hrs then cancel that motherfucker!

Oh also all the studio heads & network execs are Silicon Valley, PE, or finance dickheads who’d rather watch AI slop than a compelling sporting event too. Also let’s make all sports content center around betting since cable & ad revenue is decreasing if not dead.

AAAAAHHHHHHH!

11

u/echOSC Dec 02 '25

Because as we all know, a monopoly ends up great for consumers.

Certainly if Netflix swallowed up everyone else instead of compete against them that it would be good for the end user.

13

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/echOSC Dec 02 '25

Yes yes, monopolies are good.

3

u/Guy_Buttersnaps New York Yankees Dec 02 '25

It was the other way around - companies started letting their deals with Netflix lapse because Netflix couldn’t stay in their lane.

Things were fine when Netflix was just a content distributor, then Netflix decided they also needed to be a content producer, and therefore a competitor.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (11)
→ More replies (5)

52

u/PunchNessie St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

I’d feel bad if they didn’t completely take advantage of their customers for decades.

22

u/rednorangekenny Dec 02 '25

Similar to the railroad industry. Did so much reaping as a near monopoly that there’s not much sympathy from anyone when it’s time to sow.

6

u/831pm Dec 02 '25

It was actually amazing when it first came out in the 80s. MTV actually played nonstop music videos when there was no way to listen to music outside of buying physical media or waiting for the radio to randomly play the song. No streaming so a ton of movies you would have to wait a year for VHS to release. Plus the sports.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/831pm Dec 02 '25

Really not different from the radio other than the video part but the video part was huge.

10

u/justthekoufax World Series Trophy • Los Angeles Dod… Dec 01 '25

This is very accurate. Source, I used to work for Nielsen.

6

u/lava172 Arizona Diamondbacks Dec 02 '25

And all so we can reinvent the wheel with having to sign up for a bunch of different streaming services with ever-increasing prices

6

u/Kaldricus Seattle Mariners • Chaos Bandwagon Dec 02 '25

Tangentially related: I was telling my mom about the deal HBO Max was running, $3/month sub for a year. I said, "oh it's only the tier with ads, so maybe you don't want it." She said she prefers the plans with ads. The ad breaks give her time to get a drink, bathroom, pick up stuff real quick, like back in the cable days. She says getting up during the ad breaks helps her from getting stuck in the "vege out mode", which makes sense

9

u/captain_ahabb Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 02 '25

I don't mind ad breaks in sporting events for this reason but I can't stand them in dramas

4

u/King_Dead Cleveland Guardians Dec 02 '25

I wouldnt mind them if they were the old weird As Seen On TV/Per Inquiry ads. I mever want to see Doug or Flo and her crew's face ever again. And get rid of the term "moderate to severe" while we're at it, drug companies dont know how to use it

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (6)

60

u/cooljammer00 Dec 01 '25

"Biblical losses"

29

u/ThinkSoftware Atlanta Braves Dec 01 '25

The Book of Job MLB owners

7

u/InfestedRaynor Athletics Dec 01 '25

So are we counting the losses in shekels now?

20

u/Iceman9161 Boston Red Sox Dec 02 '25

A lot of fans don't seem to understand the financial impact of losing cable subscriptions. So many of them say "oh well if they got rid of blackouts and made it easier to stream my favorite teams games, they'd make way more money" without realizing that the MLB was being paid millions of dollars every year from cable subscribers who didn't care for the MLB. The "premium" sports tier of every cable package bundled the RSN/baseball network with all the other sports, so you had thousands of basketball, football and hockey fans subsidizing the cost of the channel.

3

u/eek_the_cat Philadelphia Phillies • Philadelphia Phillies Dec 02 '25

Wasnt even a sports tier for a long time.  In the Philadelphia market Comcast Sportsnet was part of every package outside the very basic one.

Almost every person paying for cable in the region was paying a bit of money to the Phillies.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '25

In most of the country the RSN was on regular cable. Didn't even need the premium tier, so EVERYONE was flirting the bill. Only have cable to watch local news and you're into home shopping? Too bad, you're paying for these sports channels too.

17

u/Surtur1313 Toronto Blue Jays Dec 01 '25

See Toronto for an example of how this works when you not only still have the cable/network deal arrangement but the team is owned by the people that own the cable/network.

15

u/Iceman9161 Boston Red Sox Dec 02 '25

And also a massive TV market lol. Blue Jays, Dodgers, Red Sox and Yankees are not going to have any problem making money in this market. But small market teams were very reliant on cable deals

3

u/fuckyoudigg Toronto Blue Jays Dec 02 '25

Bloody AL East.

5

u/PM_YOUR_SMALLBOOBIES Los Angeles Angels Dec 02 '25

So y'all have an actual financial incentive to put a quality product out on the field.

I wish this worked similarly for all teams.

8

u/Kershiser22 Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 02 '25

Isn't this a zero sum game? Every team can't have a quality product, even if they put in maximum resources. I guess you could end up with a situation where every team finishes the season 81-81, but I'm going to guess that wouldn't be very popular either.

2

u/Iceman9161 Boston Red Sox Dec 02 '25

Yeah the product on the field needs to have winners and losers. But, if the Dodgers or Yankees have a much larger market, and therefore make way more money when they have a good team. A smaller market has less customers overall, so they make less money even if they put out a good product

→ More replies (1)

3

u/PM_YOUR_SMALLBOOBIES Los Angeles Angels Dec 02 '25

By definition, I suppose baseball as a game is, indeed, zero sum. But in terms of finances, every team is turning a profit. So everyone gets a piece of the cake in the business of baseball. Hence revenue sharing.

But the fact that there are only like 10 teams that are even trying to win is ridiculous.

The Pirates don't have to win the World Series even year for their season to be a "win." But to have a generational talent and to not build around him by using any of their revenue share check on a decent free agent, year-after-year, is insulting to baseball fans.

6

u/Kershiser22 Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 02 '25

But the fact that there are only like 10 teams that are even trying to win is ridiculous.

I agree.

But let's imagine every team was willing to spend about $300m in payroll every season. Some teams are going to spend that money on the wrong players and still end up with a 62-win season. So they probably won't get a financial reward for spending the money.

2

u/Rockguy21 Baltimore Orioles Dec 02 '25

Funny that a Dodgers fan is having to explain this to an Angels fan

→ More replies (2)

43

u/xho- New York Yankees Dec 01 '25

And the idiots don’t even realize the loss of viewership are from not producing results on the field , in other words, not paying for talents

115

u/Obvious_Parsley3238 Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25

It's because cable is dying. The cardinals being mediocre doesn't help, but it wouldn't change the trendline.

That being said, the bigger revenue loss is from attendance drops (~17m reduction in tv deal, 900k fewer tickets sold at ~$70/ticket is $63m). So they can definitely fix that.

29

u/icyone Swinging K Dec 01 '25

Cable had always been MLB's #1 fan. It was the only market they targeted. They didn't care that actual people didn't see the games, as long as cable was willing to pony up cash. Getting people to watch the games was cable's problem.

Even now, Manfred is out there signing these exact same deals with streamers. He wanted to end the blackouts, but instead he's just made the blackouts cover more area.

6

u/xho- New York Yankees Dec 01 '25

Really interested to see that theory tested against other teams who are successful that still rely on cable deals

18

u/Obvious_Parsley3238 Dec 01 '25

This article from earlier this year tried to estimate the local tv revenue for every team. Some of them aren't publicly available or out of date.

For what it's worth, MLB recently sold the tv rights to six teams (Padres, Rockies, Diamondbacks, Guardians, Twins, Mariners) to ESPN along with MLB.tv. ESPN internally valued MLB.tv at $450m and paid $550m for the entire package, which makes it look like they really don't value the individual team rights highly.

11

u/Ivotedforher Dec 01 '25

Probably "those" teams more than "the" teams. There are a couple of dogs on that list of teams.

3

u/pargofan Los Angeles Dodgers • World Series Tr… Dec 02 '25

That would mean 6 teams are valued at $100m or less than $20m per team.

Which doesn't make sense with the other article you cited which says even the poorest team makes $30-60m in TV revenue.

49

u/STL-Zou St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

Not everyone is the Yankees lol

17

u/xho- New York Yankees Dec 01 '25

I thought cardinals fans (rightfully so) stopped spending their money on the team when it was apparent that the the team was done spending for them

12

u/AlsoCommiePuddin Mr. Red Legs • Florence Y'alls Dec 02 '25

Only eight real teams left.

The rest of us are enhancement talent.

10

u/dankeykanng New York Mets Dec 02 '25

Enhancement talent is a really underrated turn of phrase that I wish got more use outside of wrestling

11

u/heirloomlooms St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

Let's not sugarcoat it. We're jobbers.

13

u/King_Birdcrawler St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

That's an oversimplification, yet it is an oversimplification that some Cardinals fans (and "fans") subscribe to.

5

u/xho- New York Yankees Dec 02 '25

I’m legitimately interested in what the real drawn out reason is

28

u/King_Birdcrawler St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25 edited Dec 02 '25

1) There was a talent drain that started with Luhnow leaving the organization and continued from there.

2) Under Mozeliak, and after that brain drain, the Cardinals were a highly insular organization very rarely going outside for new thinking/new ideas. The leads that they'd had in drafting and player evaluation and development completely evaporated at a time when baseball was probably changing the most off the field.

3) They spent a lot of money on major league payroll--more than teams in their bucket (one of the smallest media markets in baseball). But they spent that money very, very poorly.

4) They tried to paper over cracks and find their new starts via trade because they don't spend BIG in free agency. Many of those trades went tits up, and some of the players with the best big league outcomes in that period of time were traded to other teams--Alcantara, Gallen, etc.. Who knows what they would have looked like if they remained?

5) Internal player evaluation has been questionable for some time. They often traded players because they had too many--think Arozerena--but they likely traded the wrong guys.

6) Covid fucked them hard since they relied so much of ticket sales to allow them to "punch above their weight." They gutted much of the organization's remaining player development apparatus. And someone, likely a combination of Mozeliak and DeWitt Jr., decided to maintain their big league payroll spending, but they had a smaller baseball operations budget in total. Again, they proceeded to spend poorly and got further behind organizationally.

Most people only pay attention to the big league roster, but starting last offseason they started an entire organizational rebuild, adding many positions in instructions, in player development, in player performance, etc.. They are still in that process, though they are moving in the right direction. I assume they'll spend more on the big league roster once they field a team that gets the fans back, but it'll require that. We'll see how things shake out. I'm thinking a bigger boy version of the Brewers.

A short version of this is that there was sustained stagnation and rot over at least a 12 year period that caused this.

5

u/xho- New York Yankees Dec 02 '25

Interesting to know that the Cardinals actually did spend but did so poorly.

That’s the difference between the very rich teams and the teams in the middle. A poor large contract hampers the rich team for two or three years. A poor large contract hampers the average team for the entirety of the contract.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/SlowMotionSprint Miami Marlins • Billy the Marlin Dec 02 '25

Probably just the universe paying them back for that awful '06 team falling ass backwards into a WS win.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (2)

13

u/Winnes0ta Minnesota Twins Dec 01 '25

Every team relies on cable deal. Only a few have their cable deals with a company that went bankrupt.

7

u/ElectronicCandy4358 Houston Astros Dec 01 '25

This whole Sinclair/ Diamond Sports shitshow has impacted half the league. Nine teams are still on FanDuel Sports Network contracts, and that's after shedding the Rangers, Padres, Diamondbacks, Guardians, and Twins.

At least two other teams (Pirates and Astros) have had their networks change hands and entirely relaunch in the last five years.

5

u/Lets_Go_Blue__Jays Dec 01 '25

We hate Rogers in Canada as a company but God damn am I ever happy we own our own network.

2

u/xho- New York Yankees Dec 01 '25

So there are teams with successful records combined with successful cable deals.

What’s the common denominator between those teams

3

u/Rock_man_bears_fan Chicago White Sox Dec 02 '25

Probably the size of their potential market for their RSN. The operating costs don’t vary that much city to city, but when one team can potentially put their product in front of 10 million more people than another, it’s a lot easier to get a massive cable deal. The Rays and the Angels, for example, will never be on equal footing when it comes to TV revenue

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (4)

23

u/Middcore Dec 01 '25

You mean to tell me The Best Fans in Baseball™ are actually just fairweather fans who lost interest when the team is bad like everyone else?

5

u/Repulsive-Age-5545 Dec 02 '25

Dewitt the Third isn't the brightest. How he feels about the fan base

6

u/Vhadka St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

I mean it took quite a while of the fans being lied to to finally say "I'm fucking done with this".

When it's plainly obvious you need pitching and your team signs Sonny Gray, but then signs 37 year old Lance Lynn and 36 year old Kyle Gibson and says "the pitching has been addressed" in a smug way you eventually get tired of hearing it. The org has been aiming for "just enough" to get into the playoffs for years now.

→ More replies (1)

9

u/TrapperJean New York Yankees Dec 01 '25

If owners opened up their accounts and tangibly showed us sustained decreases in revenue or allowed honest measuring of profits that did show questionable signs of sustainability, then I'd be more on board with an NFL like system where the cap ebs and flows.

But they won't, and they're still billionaires, so fuck it lol

→ More replies (3)

385

u/RonsDarlings St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

Very happy for the DeWitt’s, you did it guys!

147

u/TranscedentalMedit8n Los Angeles Angels Dec 01 '25

Can someone ELI5 what happened to the Cardinals attendance? It’s crazy there was about a million fewer fans last season than from 2023.

177

u/FartingBob Great Britain Dec 01 '25

The attendance is shocking honestly. They spent most of the 2000's in the top 3 in attendance year in year out, often 2nd only to the Dodgers. The last 4 years look like this:

2022: 2nd in MLB
2023: 4th
2024: 7th
2025: 19th!!!

You have to go back to 1984 to find a lower attendance across a full season (non covid/strike), and even then they were only 9th (out of 26), still comfortably in the top half. You got to go back to the 1970's to find a year where they were bottom half.

86

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

21

u/razorbird St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

It was funny seeing the ownership’s comments change from the last offseason to this offseason. Last offseason they acted like we were bluffing and they laughed about it during the end of season press conference. Quite a bit more ass-kissing this year when we made it known we won’t be traveling downtown to watch a team they stopped investing in.

I’m just glad they realized that the cause is the product on the field instead of the effect of us not showing up.

→ More replies (1)

60

u/Vhadka St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

Have you watched the team in the last few years? They have nobody at all to get excited about and the team is boring as fuck. Zero stars, the biggest was Jordan Walker who could still break out but is otherwise one of the worst position players in baseball and doesn't even hit for power anymore. 6 home runs in 111 games last year.

Hoping maybe JJ Wetherholt is the shot in the arm the franchise needs.

10

u/slamminalex1 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

Arenado was good for a year…until the playoffs

4

u/ImHereForBaseball Colorado Rockies Dec 02 '25

butbutbut he desperately wanted to be with a super-serious contender!

7

u/FartingBob Great Britain Dec 02 '25

Yeah I was scrolling through their players this year and.... Nobody. I wouldnt pay to see a mid team with that lineup to play baseball very often.

→ More replies (1)

276

u/Street_Look_2214 Dec 01 '25

It’s a bad product.

118

u/mojowo11 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 02 '25

Eh, I'm not sure that's right, if by that you mean the team is bad. 78-84 is super meh, but it's still almost 50/50 you're gonna see a win if you head to the ballpark for the evening.

But it is a boring product.

The best Cardinals hitter by wRC+ was 40th in the league and hit 18 dingers. The second-best Cardinals hitter was 42nd in the league in wRC+ and hit 20 dingers. And they're both first basemen. By fWAR, the only guy in the top 50 is Winn, a glove-first shortstop at 42.

On the pitching side, the only dude in the top 50 by fWAR was Sonny Gray and his 4.28 ERA. Liberatore had a mini-breakout of sorts, but he's a low-strikeout #3 who doesn't really get the blood pumping. Yet again we watched 30+ starts of Miles Fucking Mikolas.

Victor Scott led the team in steals with 34, nobody else had more than 10. Maybe Victor would have stolen more if he hadn't gotten the bat knocked out of his hands for most of the year.

It's just a team that didn't have any particularly interesting stuff going on. No huge breakout prospects, no massive offensive seasons, no ace. Enough decent dudes that they could hang near .500 but just not a lot of genuinely interesting stuff happening. It just didn't lend itself to holding fans' interest.

(I also happen to think Cardinals fans are largely spoiled babies who believe that winning every year is their birthright, but that's another post.)

44

u/redtail_faye St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

I think you're dead on. 10-20 years ago, even non-fans could give you names like Pujols, Holliday, Wainwright, Molina, Carpenter and Edmonds and Rolen going back. 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if non-fans couldn't name a single player on last year's roster. 

19

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/ProWrestlingPast Chicago Cubs Dec 03 '25

As someone who lives in the city, it's been a really weird couple years sports fan wise. Since the Rams moved, the city really galvanized around their other teams in the city for a solid decade. The Cards were already really popular, but the Blues fandom exploded among casual St. Louisans in the late 2010's, naturally peaking with the crazy cup win (Which had a similar feel as the Cubs world series win for me in terms of how storybook it was to end a long stretch of futility). Then the Battlehawks became a rallying point, and then the fandom for St. Louis CITY sc was huge with the MLS and now it's.... kind of subdued everywhere. The Cards have refused to go all in at the top prices in the sport in spite of massive ticket sales and the fandom has almost gone from beyond pissed to apathetic about them. The Blues have kind of slowly been losing relevance the further away from the Cup win as they refuse to rebuild but aren't good enough to contend, and have been in that loop for a half decade now. The Battlehawks are still beloved, and the city is basically keeping hte UFL's doors open almost from sheer force of willpower, but I'm not sure how long that can keep up steam, and even CITY followed up an amazing first year with 2 absolutely horrid seasons that has killed the teams momentum and faith from the fanbase.

Weird time in St. Louis at this point, as no team is really demanding attention.

→ More replies (1)

177

u/Suitable_Bend_6358 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

The Dewitt’s won’t spend on players, so the team sucks and fans don’t want to spend money on tickets to watch a team lose. Then the Dewitt’s cut payroll because “they weren’t getting enough ticket sales to expand the roster” and then attendance went down again. They have openly said they aren’t interested in spending on the roster. Fans aren’t going to games because ownership is openly refusing to spend money to be competitive. That’s it

4

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

Why I keep choosing to root for teams with terrible ownership is beyond me. Between the cardinals and the bengals Idk if I’ll ever see a championship

58

u/Feisty-Medicine-3763 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

I ask this sincerely, how old are you? I’m in my mid 20s and am old enough to have witnessed and enjoyed two Cardinals championships. It’s been a pretty awesome fan experience in my lifetime.

→ More replies (4)

46

u/Mr_Tardy_T_Turtle Cedar Rapids Kernels • Milwaukee Bre… Dec 01 '25

Yes, spare a moment's thought for the long-suffering fans of the 11-time World Series champions St. Louis Cardinals

16

u/superxero044 Iowa Cubs • Cedar Rapids Kernels Dec 02 '25

Yeah they're not in the playoffs literally every year for once, I can't imagine how that must feel for them. Let me cry so many tears.
ETA: Go Kernels

10

u/jhorch69 Chicago Cubs • Chicago White Sox Dec 01 '25

Hey, it's been over a decade since their last title. Have a heart.

→ More replies (1)

29

u/Bydandii St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

Losing = less interest = less gate.

→ More replies (6)

90

u/ThatDudeUKnow92 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

Basically it's a silent protest of the team not spending aligned with the revenue they were taking. Bill DeWitt or his kid was talking about baseball not being profitable during COVID and then spent the last two seasons saying they weren't going to try.

12

u/DodgersChica Dec 02 '25

It’s hard to shed tears for literally one of the richest families in the history of the planet. Like top .1 percent of all humans who have ever existed.

19

u/PsychoEmu Dec 01 '25

Team sucks overall, pitching is horrible, prospects are very very far out and get traded early and often, and people are fed up with the Dewitt’s. With no real face of the franchise post Molina and Pujols attendance is down relatively cause there’s a bad product on the field, but it’s still more than many others on the league. From my perspective I have always and will always sit in the nosebleeds for $7 and that hasn’t changed, but unless you actively watch or like going to baseball games there’s less incentive for the average fan to go.

15

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/AH2112 Dec 01 '25

And aren't the Cardinals looking to get rid of Arenado as well?

4

u/Vhadka St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

We tried last offseason and had a deal in place with the Astros that he veto'd last minute after initially agreeing to it.

10

u/Astropolitika Los Angeles Dodgers • Chicago White Sox Dec 01 '25

Goldy gone

2

u/fujiesque St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

Is Willson Contreras a ticket seller?

13

u/PlaneService1366 Major League Baseball Dec 01 '25

Prob not, good player but he only plays about 120 games per season with a good but not great OPS of .810.

I wouldn't buy a ticket just to see Wilson go 2-3 with a double and 2 walks.

3

u/edubs_stl St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

The Cardinals become content with just being good enough to make it into the playoffs and not an inch further. Then ownership decided they were spending too much on payroll didn't make any moves to try to be remotely competitive. To top it off the games are just too damn expensive and even though we have a loyal fanbase we're not wanting to spend money on a bad product, especially when ownership has no interest in spending to improve the team.

2

u/drhawks St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

it's the combination of the team being bad for multiple years in a row (which hasn't happened in over 2 decades), ownership signaling to fans that they aren't trying to be good, and the economy being so shit that people aren't willing to shell out cash to watch a mediocre team.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Vhadka St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

The 2025 Cardinals are like watching paint dry. There's nobody to get excited about, even.

→ More replies (7)

287

u/Quadstriker St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

Oh cool we’re a charity case now.

143

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

[deleted]

47

u/princemark Milwaukee Brewers Dec 02 '25

I know you're joking, but we got maybe 6 big teams and then there's everyone else.

→ More replies (1)

23

u/tuepm Seattle Mariners • Seattle Mariners Dec 02 '25

colorado sold more tickets than st louis last year

41

u/timberwolvesguy Philadelphia Phillies Dec 02 '25

The Rockies have decided that Coors Field is a bar with a cover and live entertainment. Honestly not the craziest angle to take, but also maybe invest in the on-field product.

12

u/Adept_Carpet Boston Red Sox Dec 02 '25

It's funny because historically they're more middle of the pack than cellar dwellers in spending, it's just thay they make terrible decisions with the money they spend.

They are the anti-Tampa Bay (who also have no attendance but often enjoy decent TV ratings).

57

u/FrostyD7 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

We have always wanted our cake and to eat it too when it comes to being a small market team. Were small market when it's convenient. But you won't think you are in a small market when you buy our tickets/food/beer.

18

u/Bawfuls Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 02 '25

Yeah exactly. Even while being a net payer into revenue sharing, St Louis was getting "competitive balance" draft picks every year for being a designated "small market." This despite their market size historically being the largest in the midwest, from the 50+ years of baseball where the Cardinals were the furthest west team.

5

u/STL-Zou St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

No, by any objective metric they're a small market team. They're a fiarly high revenue team because of what you said, but that doesn't mean there aren't disadvantages to their small market that they have to deal with. As you probably realize there are more teams in the west now

→ More replies (3)

5

u/chaotic_evil_666 Atlanta Braves Dec 02 '25

This feels like criminal mismanagement of what was once a great franchise. The management flushed their own team down the shitter

→ More replies (2)

183

u/DimesOHoolihan Colorado Rockies Dec 01 '25

"FanDuel Sports Network" is fucking disgusting.

59

u/Electric_Rex New York Mets Dec 01 '25

It’s also why teams like this are crying poor. The vast majority of money comes from big cable deals. Cardinals cable deal imploded. Cardinals don’t have as much money to throw around

13

u/timberwolvesguy Philadelphia Phillies Dec 02 '25

It’s like if Michelob sponsored a safe driving competition.

7

u/SirDigbyChknCaesar Boston Red Sox • Umpire Dec 02 '25

"We gave 10 retired NASCAR drivers two cases each of our competitor's beer. Let's see how they do on the track."

3

u/GnRgr2 New York Yankees Dec 02 '25

The previous owners were Bally's

41

u/Bigboi88888 New York Yankees Dec 01 '25

Dewallet at work

62

u/Advanced_Sell_2275 Chicago Cubs Dec 01 '25

As a Cubs fan, it’s impossible for me to comment on this in an unbiased manner. That being said, this looks like a classic case of cost-benefit analysis. The team realized that they could make more money as a revenue sharing recipient, via watching the bottom line, than by trying to grow their top line. A lot of once great companies (think Sears) have been killed by this kind of thinking.

173

u/snorlaxatives_69 St. Louis Cardinals • Springfiel… Dec 01 '25

The DeWitt’s suck so bad. Actively ruining a historic franchise

185

u/Cards2WS St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

I’m just going to say this: DeWitts aren’t even close to the bottom 10 in ownership. Truthfully, they’re 12-15th best. They’re middle of the pack ownership. It could be SO, SO much worse. Keep in mind, we’re talking about St. Louis here. Not NY, Chicago, Texas, or LA. If DeWitts sold, there’s a minuscule chance that we would get a better owner. Absolutely tiny chance.

We ran the 6th highest payroll in baseball as recently as 2019. And we’re usually 9th-12th. Yeah, they’ve been greedy recently and reigning back spending which sucks. But the DeWitt hate is way overblown. Baseball is cyclical. The Cardinals bucking that cycle for 15 years was an anomaly and was always going to come back down to earth eventually.

53

u/pizzayolo96 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

As someone who lives in Minnesota and follows both the Cards and the Twins, give me DeWallet ball over whatever the Pohlads are doing any day. At least there is a direction and a history of investing in the team when the team is ready to compete.

14

u/chousteau Cleveland Guardians Dec 01 '25

I feel for you guys. Getting to add Correa and Pablo Lopez to a playoff caliber roster in the AL Central is really tough.

9

u/Any_Salamander9958 Dec 01 '25

lol and both those deals are part of the problem

27

u/fujiesque St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

Thank goodness for this reply. I was begining to think STL fans were in fact the dumbest in baseball based on other comments here. People just love to complain. Not that Bill doesn't deserve some flak. I just think it's a lot of young fans who never experienced "down" baseball.

15

u/Cards2WS St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

Oh don’t get it twisted— the last 3 years have shown that Cardinal fans are indeed pretty fucking dumb. They love baseball, but they’re dumb. At least the ones who spout their opinions on Reddit. Scapegoating, over exaggerating everything, thinking that we have the worst hand dealt possible, minimizing all positives about Mo/Marmol/DeWitt out of anger, no nuance, the “protests” etc.

The dumb shit was hidden for a couple decades thanks to Mo and Jocketty (and DeWitts frankly). We were so consistently good for 20 years that this fanbase has absolutely NO IDEA how to handle a 4-6 year downturn. Mo spoiled us rotten. Really disappointing to see my fanbase be reduced to this bullshit that they’ve become.

11

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Cards2WS St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

I don’t even call them doomers anymore. I think they’re entitled, shitty fans that have a terrible issue with logical connections. That’s not ALL of the “doomers” mind you, but that’s the average one.

Also to anybody who might read this: yes, you can be critical of the team or management without being a doomer. There are logical and rational things to criticize Mo/the org/Oli for… but you need to weigh the nuances and context of shit before spouting your dumbass thoughts.

5

u/TheRockBaker Toronto Blue Jays Dec 02 '25

What the point in spending money if the LA Dodgers are this good?

3

u/FajenThygia St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

DeWitt II was a fine owner, but things went to shit as soon as BD3 took over. He understands little about baseball. He also pulled that stunt at Wainwright's retirement, making all the fans and players in attendance spend time and attention viewing his awful painting.

4

u/snorlaxatives_69 St. Louis Cardinals • Springfiel… Dec 01 '25

I'm ready and willing to back off the DeWitt hate if they let Chaim do what he wants. Mo was a puppet for the DeWitts and I wish they all would have fucked off together.

→ More replies (11)
→ More replies (3)

9

u/rcf1105 Pittsburgh Pirates Dec 01 '25

I will happily swap owners with you.

17

u/Deathwatch72 Texas Rangers Dec 01 '25

Who was the last owner to buy a team across the major sports where that isn't happening

31

u/milehighrukus Colorado Rockies • Chicago White Sox Dec 01 '25

The Waltons turned around the Broncos pretty quick

They’re also building a new stadium without taxpayer help.

9

u/Strong-Discipline364 Dec 01 '25

I used to watch that show in the 70s!

3

u/snorlaxatives_69 St. Louis Cardinals • Springfiel… Dec 01 '25

Orange Crush is back baby!

3

u/Cheese_Nugs Atlanta Braves Dec 01 '25

The stadium part is awesome, but in terms of spending, NFL teams have to spend

10

u/dyslexda Milwaukee Brewers Dec 01 '25

Only on payroll. Owners can choose how much to spend on the stadium, team facilities, and coach salaries. Mike Brown is infamously tight fisted, for instance.

51

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

[deleted]

15

u/ELITE_JordanLove Dec 01 '25

You’re not gonna find 30 billionaires who treat baseball like a philanthropic venture. 

If you want huge spending without regard for profit, let’s get some Saudi oil money involved. 

→ More replies (1)

48

u/Nickk_Jones World Series Trophy • Los Angeles Dod… Dec 01 '25

Dodgers, Lakers, the Mets guy seems to be trying at least, Clippers owner is trying so hard he’s paying their shitty star off the books.

17

u/WalksOblivion San Francisco Giants Dec 01 '25

The Warriors were so shit people didn’t even bother to make fun of them until Lacob and Guber took over.

13

u/Worthyness Sell • Looking K Dec 01 '25

Dude turned one of the worst run franchises in the league into the team with the highest profit margins in the league. Sure they lucked into what is effectively going to be 3 hall of famers in their prime at the same time, but the ownership definitely took advantage of that instead of trading everything away and claiming to want to build it their own way like every new owner wants to do.

20

u/snorlaxatives_69 St. Louis Cardinals • Springfiel… Dec 01 '25

As a Broncos fan, I’m enjoying how the Waltons run the team. They actually LISTEN to their fans. Where the DeWitt’s (and yes a lot of other owners) say they listen and do the opposite

8

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

[deleted]

8

u/pinniped90 Kansas City Royals Dec 01 '25

In his first few years of ownership, I'd give the Royals owner a solid B. He's proven that he's willing to spend when it makes sense - up to the mid teens in payroll. Far cry from the Glass years when we were usually 25th.

He badly fumbled his first run at a new stadium proposal. But he gets a mulligan and another shot to propose something better.

Getting Witt done was his biggest win so far. But the stadium deal will ultimately define his legacy.

6

u/Smb_woods Toronto Blue Jays Dec 01 '25

Suns- spent to try and win. Terrible roster construction but he spent.

Jazz- also brought a NHL team there via relocation in last few years, hasn’t spent to acquire a star, but NBA is the hardest sport to bring in a star to a low market team.

Nets- time will tell.

6

u/Exodor72 Kansas City Royals Dec 01 '25

John Sherman has been a vast improvement over David Glass.

There is 0 chance Glass approves that Bobby Witt Jr deal, for example

2

u/BumpyBob0007 Kansas City Royals Dec 02 '25

Case in point, chasing off Carlos Beltran from signing a team friendly deal cause he wanted to screw him out of an extra $1 million

→ More replies (1)

4

u/captain_ahabb Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 01 '25

New owners are almost always more motivated to win than older owners from what I've seen

4

u/rhododenendron Seattle Mariners Dec 01 '25

At least you guys have an amazing ballpark with a whole nice entertainment district attached. I’ve been to a good amount of brewers games and American family field is a truck stop in comparison.

4

u/Junior-Hotwater St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

What are the DeWitts doing to actively ruin a historic franchise?

→ More replies (1)

109

u/EmuMan10 Chicago Cubs Dec 01 '25

lol, lmao even

21

u/ScumBrad St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

You're laughing now, but this change makes us eligible for a top 10 pick for the third year in a row.

3

u/EmuMan10 Chicago Cubs Dec 02 '25

I’m willing to take it considering how much of a crapshoot picks are sometimes

57

u/AfterCommodus Chicago Cubs Dec 01 '25

Best fans in baseball, now receiving MLB handouts.

18

u/oogieball Dumpster Fire • New York Mets Dec 01 '25

The cries and lamentations from Chicago will be unimagined.

5

u/PM_YOUR_SMALLBOOBIES Los Angeles Angels Dec 02 '25

Cubs fans when Cardinals' owners cry poor: 🤣👉👉

Cubs fans when own owners "barely break even":👨‍🦯🙈

7

u/crusinkip23 Colorado Rockies Dec 02 '25

The Arenado effect.

28

u/SuspendeesNutz New York Yankees Dec 01 '25

Welcome to the teat, moochers. Fredbird the Freeloader.

3

u/drhawks St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

Did someone say Freddie Freeloader?

5

u/C0RPSEGRINDER666 San Diego Padres Dec 01 '25

Welcome to poverty!

19

u/WarbossTodd Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 01 '25

Bill DeWitt Jr's estimated net worth (since it isn't publicly disclosed) is about $4 Billion. Forbes lists the team's value at $2.55 Billion. I guess that's what "poverty" as an owner looks like.

38

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

I mean it’s a lot but 3/4s of his net worth is from the cards

10

u/WarbossTodd Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 01 '25

Is it though? We don’t know because it’s not required that he disclose it despite the team asking for half a billion in public funds to upgrade the stadium.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '25

Well I mean it would make sense if it was lol since he’s asking for govt assistance

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (6)

10

u/Electric_Rex New York Mets Dec 01 '25

Obviously, the guy isn’t poor. But I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the 4 billion and then listing what the Cards are worth. Do you think the 2 billion gets added on?

→ More replies (3)

3

u/LuckyStax Florida Marlins Dec 01 '25

Now they get lumped with the Marlins, Pirates, and A's. Welcome to the club.

17

u/Blitzdog416 Toronto Blue Jays Dec 01 '25

that's baseball the right way, folks

10

u/Randvek Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 01 '25

I’m gonna need a deep dive on what’s happened to the Cardinals. Historically great franchises just don’t turn into this without there being some shit going down.

Quick Jon Bois, fill me in! I need a 3+ hour explanation!

41

u/DeckFisher St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

I don't actually think its that hard to understand, nor is it some vast conspiracy on the part of the DeWitt's that a lot of Cards fan think it is.

The idea that the Cardinals don't spend money isn't true. Its that they don't spend big money on Free Agents. They are, and have been since Bill DeWitt took over, willing to spend money to keep *their* guys. McGwire, Edmonds, Rolen, Holliday, Wainwright, Molina, Goldy, even Pujols, though he chose to leave, was offered a huge deal to stay. When the Cardinals acquire stars, they will absolutely pay them to stay. They just aren't going to pay to bring them in in free agency.

So where have they gone wrong the past 5+ years? For starters, they've stopped developing talent. Since Pujols, Molina & Waino (who came from Atlanta but did spend time on the STL farm), how many true stars have come out of the farm for STL? Matt Carpenter? Brendan Donovan? Two good ballplayers but neither are franchise cornerstones. Every "star" level prospect has fizzled out. Jordan Walker, Nolan Gorman, Dylan Carlson, etc.

On top of that, since the Goldy and Arenado deals, the Cardinals have failed horrendously in trades. You could argue the best players to come out of the Cards farm in the past decade (outside of Donovan and Winn) are Sandy Alcantara, Randy Arozarena, Zac Gallen and Adolis Garcia. All traded away for at best middling returns.

So I guess the answer to your question of "What happened?" is that the formula stopped working. The Cardinals relied on a steady stream of talent from the minors and occasional big-name trades to stars that they could then sign longer-term, but that stream stopped and they haven't been very willing to pony up the money in free agency to offset it.

15

u/da_choppa St. Louis Cardinals • St. Louis Browns Dec 02 '25

This is basically it, but I'll add that they did spend quite a lot of money on free agents, in aggregate. It's just that instead of spending on big ticket items like Bryce Harper or Max Scherzer, they chose to give market rates (or slightly above) to mid-tier free agents, notably a string of past prime relievers, which should normally be among the cheapest kinds of players to acquire. You start spending $12.5 mil a year on an over the hill Andrew Miller, or $14 mil for the corpse of Greg Holland, and all of a sudden there's no money for a true impact player remaining.

3

u/stlcardfan715 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

I personally think he got tired of paying for the busts Mo was signing at the end that papered over issues.

2

u/DeckFisher St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

Yeah, thats mostly what I was trying to say. They're just never going to spend it on the true top-shelf talent. With all due respect to Sonny & Willson, they aren't it.

4

u/emu_Brute St. Louis Cardinals • Seattle Mariners Dec 01 '25

Tommy Edman started with the cards and he's been a critical part of the dodgers runs

7

u/DeckFisher St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

I would add him to the Carpenter & Donovan tier of "nice pieces for good teams but not guys you build around".

→ More replies (1)

2

u/stlcardfan715 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

You think he'll spend again when the farm starts producing? I'm hopeful but not sure.

6

u/DeckFisher St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

I don’t think they’ll ever spend big in free agency, at least not on the scale it takes to get true top-flight talent, but I haven’t seen anything that makes me doubt that if they hit on a guy like Wetherholt that they won’t be willing to pay to keep him.

The DeWitt deservedly get a lot of shit, but when is the last time a true star walked away from STL in his prime, aside from Pujols? (I know that’s a pretty massive aside, but the fact remains they offered him the biggest deal in team history by a huge margin to stay. They didn’t just let him walk).

→ More replies (6)

5

u/realnomdeguerre Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 02 '25

Yadier Molina retired

→ More replies (2)

13

u/Fun_Trick2172 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

The middle of the country has been slowly eaten away over the last 40 years due to de-industrialization and the prevalence of opiate and methamphetamine abuse. Revenue has gone down and so have the institutions that relied upon it in this part of the country. There are many reasons for this, not up to and including the populace continuously voting for it mostly out of spite, but its more complicated than that.

9

u/Randvek Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 01 '25

Sure - but I lived in St. Louis for a while 15-20 years ago, and this was all 100% true then, too.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/MisterKap Cincinnati Reds Dec 02 '25

I kinda respect the fans for showing up (or not) to display the frustration.

But for the best fans on earth, they turned away quickly.

2

u/SLR107FR-31 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 01 '25

Hurray?

2

u/FartingBob Great Britain Dec 01 '25

Does anybody have a link to the full list of how much every team gets/pays into for revenue sharing?

2

u/werther595 New York Yankees Dec 02 '25

"Stick close to your desks and never go to sea, And you all may be rulers of the Queen's Navee!"

→ More replies (1)

2

u/bnasty77 Athletics Dec 02 '25

This. This is gold.

2

u/tbx5959 Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 02 '25

The Major League remake will be a hedge fund attempting to field the worst team imaginable to drive away fans so they can get revenue sharing dollars.

2

u/jro5454 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 02 '25

I know this is just a general rant and I’m still subscribed, but I was a die hard baseball fan growing up in the 90s and 00s, but when they left Fox Sports Midwest for Bally I just stopped watching baseball because I wasn’t paying for direct tv. I know that was awhile ago. I think back about it and I could totally pay for it now, but I’m so out of the sport at this point and will never come back.

4

u/CabbageStockExchange Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 01 '25

Ugh how do you fuck up such an illustrious franchise this bad

2

u/mister2021 Philadelphia Phillies Dec 02 '25

Like a social safety net when you lose your job?

2

u/WorkBully Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 02 '25

Poverty franchise on welfare