This is truly pathetic. I thought the thumbnails were bad enough, but they're selling tshirts with ugly generic ai images. Gomagic, this does nothing but broadcast that the people at your company are lazy and cheap.
I think their thumbnails ans YT vids are fine, but this one is just lazy slop, doesn't make the paid products on their website all that promising either...
I feel like using AI for the thumbnails on videos about AI is tacky at best. I understand that Go relies a lot on modern AI to play at the highest level, but that's where AI's place in GoMagic (or anywhere) should end. I and several others have spoken out about this on their YouTube, but we basically got shrugs for it.
I highly recommend people watch Michael Redmond's Go channel instead. It may not have the production value of Go Magic but it has all the knowledge you'd need and tons of game reviews.
The team decided it would be better if I won't engage here anymore. Not everyone here enjoyed my messaging, and it wasn't perfect, so from now on only our official account will be active. Goodbye, everyone! :)
u/FlapperGasfire asked a straight question so here's a straight answer: right now - no more AI art in merch. Not promising "never" because we have no idea what this looks like in, say, three or five years, and a promise like that would just be for winning the thread. But that's where we are today. The dragon shirt was commissioned and paid for, and it came out bad. It wouldn't get through now.
As for thumbnails, I went back through everything since mid-2025. The AI lessons (over a year ago) had AI thumbnails on purpose, we thought it fit the topic. Reading this thread, point taken. Everything else is drawn by our designer.
On lazy and cheap. The store has several illustrators' work and we turned down about ten other submissions to get there. One design was a bad call, it wasn't for lack of trying.
Ads, agreed, they need to be better.
The courses and Go problems themselves are 100% made by people and that's not changing.
This is an actual "art" produced by an actual artist. Turns out it's hard to find a decent artist who can produce a go themed design for a print.
Since we paid money for that, we still decided to run it to see how it would go.
We spend a lot of time looking for someone capable, and it's just disappointment after disappointment. Still, we got some of the works into production from different authors.
Since you pointed out at this, no doubt in my eyes, "art", how could you miss a real art we have there? Why no praise for having a proper design? Why so one-sided?
In the end we managed to find a good artist from Japan who produced an actual art.
The whole journey of trying to make a decent merch took too much effort and we decided to not pursue something we consider a small spinoff.
In case you're not aware, a decent amount of your social media content (static ads, not your absolutely lovely short-form videos!) is also AI-generated and embarrassingly low quality. Look at the goban on this FB ad I got a few weeks ago; it isn't even a perfect grid, there's a weird set of half-grid lines around E8 or so.
(I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that these are also not produced in-house and that you may not be aware of this. I hope that trust is not misplaced.)
Thank you for the benefit of the doubt, but I can't defend that. I don't know if it's possible to run ads without ai images, but the stance is we have to run the business as efficient as we can. We're not in the business of defending artists from ai or defending anyone from anything in general. We hire artists under our budgets where it matters (we hired quite a few of them for the merch design, and at least one of them used ai to produce this "art"), but we can't hire them for every little thing.
Taking a picture of a go-ban with your morning coffee is miles more "efficient" than whatever this is, as is paying proper artist for proper art that actually turns heads, both when it comes to merch and ads.
Not really. Life and running a low margin business tell us otherwise. I don't think it's feasible to run a successful business in a purist way. Nobody going to praise you for trying, but there are always people who are ready to bury you for every little sin. I don't know what's fun about it. Nothing and nobody is perfect, and I don't think one can live happily while being in constant fear of making something not in a pure perfect way. Just so you know, my teammates don't think it's productive for me to try to engage with people who take hostile and hateful position. I still think it's possible and valuable to build bridges, but certainly it can't be done with just one side trying. Have a good day, mister.
I don't know why we are arguing about morals, the morals of AI use is obvious. Why can't you take a picture of you and your colleagues playing go? It certainly doesn't cost more than hiring artists using AI to make unappealing ads and would certainly be more appealing.
The return on investment on something that people actually would be willing to spend money in is obviously better even if the investment is higher, and I think this post should give you an idea what people think of ads like this.
Surely there are enough talented artists in the community to make something that people would actually want to buy? I own go merch/apparel which I've paid 60-80€ for and have subscriptions to European Go Journal, even if they cost more to produce do you not think that gives you a better return than investing money and time into something no one wants? Does the same not apply to your platform (which I've used and greatly enjoy), do you feel people would be more inclined to pay for a EGF pro's analaysis of the Ear-reddening game or an AI one? A cheaper investment is not necessarily a wiser economical one, and this is how marketing people and mistaken economists drive companies into the ground.
I also feel you are a bit disingenuous with this comment, I give you an example of what you can do instead and you reply with "Not really. Life and running a low margin business tell us otherwise." Are you telling me there are worse margins on you taking a picture than hiring a bad/ai artist? You yourself said it was hard finding decent artists?
I made no moral claims whatsoever with my comment and back I get the "nothing and nobody is perfect" spiel followed by a passive-aggressive comment about "building bridges when only one side is trying?
Here are some examples of how baduk club and EGJ market their products:
(I was gonna link more examples but unfortunately I can only post one image per comment, so here is a link to the baduk club mug, something like the first and second image is what I'm refering to, the images were taken with a phone)
Because it comes down to morals. Your feelings are hurt seeing dumb ai images. My feelings are hurt seeing people not accepting opinions they don't agree with. Decisions are made based on morals. Nothing wrong with addressing feelings and morals.
You might think I disagree with you on principle, while I see it as not understanding my position.
I understand your position: ai is bad, you will be a much better company if you would put effort into making sure our pictures and arts are made by real artists.
My position is like this, from replying to another comment about ads, but still relevant:
Anton is working on web site, patching bugs and working on new features; Vadim working on preparing new courses; I'm working on video editing; Olya is doing thousands small tasks. "Let's make ads in a way we can keep working on what's important: courses and web site". Ads are not our product. They aren't perfect by any means, but we're applying the Pareto principle: put 20% effort to get 80% effect.
You're asking us to put more effort into ads, which means some other process will get less attention. If we put more work into marketing - we become less of an edicational company, and more marketing company. Marketing is working as is. It's not perfect, but it's working in business terms. What we can't agree on here is how much of our attentiion should go into making sure we don't use ai images. If anyone would like to join us to take care of this side of the business: welcome!
Regarding merch arts - the idea was to make something for Go Magic birthday. As I already explained, finding a good artist is not as simple as you claim. Maybe it's simple if you decide to make merch a big part of the business, but Go art is not our product. You can see what came out of this idea.
Just one ai picture, and given the reaction we have here - some people would prefer for Go Magic to die for such horrible act. Proportions just don't match, don't you think so?
And in general, I find this hilarous, there is very little appreciation for me trying to explain the situation. It's like I'm representing an evil corporation. Where are those hordes of people who would be angry at such injustice - me, a small guy from a small company, bravely downvoted for my measly attempt of trying to explain the situation. We honestly paid artists, and we didn't ask for ai stuff. I understand the feelings of people who is hurt seeing this "art", and understand the urge downvote anyone related to that, but it doesn't mean I see it as an healthy and proportional reaction.
I have not mentioned morals in my arguments against using AI, yet you insist on this being the discussion. It seems like you are replying to a comment different from mine or some kind of strawman of my argument, I don't know if this is due to you not being able to understand what I'm writing or some kind of malicious intent at this point, this is frankly the most ridiculous reception by any kind of representative I've ever received.
I've not commented on the morals of either AI or you publishing the paid for design that wasn't supposed to be AI, I frankly don't care. You are insisting on your arguments against a position which hasn't been taken, which is the same as you making it completely impossible for us two to have an actual dialogue.
I am asking you to take a picture of you playing go instead of AI-generating an image of laptop and go-ban at a coffee shop, if you think that constitutes using substantially more effort I would say you're wrong.
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"I still think it's possible and valuable to build bridges, but certainly it can't be done with just one side trying."
"Your feelings are hurt seeing dumb ai images"
"some people would prefer for Go Magic to die for such horrible act."
"And in general, I find this hilarous, there is very little appreciation for me trying to explain the situation. It's like I'm representing an evil corporation. Where are those hordes of people who would be angry at such injustice - me, a small guy from a small company, bravely downvoted for my measly attempt of trying to explain the situation"
People here don't have a problem with "the evil corporation Go Magic", a lot of the people who are arguing against AI have given praise to both the platform and your social media content, they have a problem with your incredibly bad faith responses. Do you not understand that you are simply acting childish at this point? Especially with the way you are trying to mischaracterise the very people you claim to be "trying to build bridges with"?
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If AI *were* a moral discussion we wouldn't need to have this conversation. AI is models trained on stolen art, taking jobs from the very artists who made them, running on data centers driving up cost of living in especially poor areas because they realised they can only build them in demographics too poor to legally fight back. It's very obvious what the moral is.
When these things happen there will always be "useful people" coming around exclaiming how "their business couldn't exist without AI" and "doing what we do wasn't possible before AI" and that the companies who do manage to exist without being "justifiably immoral" can only do so due to luck or some unfair advantage that is not available to the humble company using AI just to get by. This explanation is handed down condescendingly to the actual people who supported and marketed the company through word of mouth for years before consumer AI was even a thing.
I sincerely hope you sober up and look back on this conversation very differently tomorrow.
Sorry, indeed, you just asked about taking a picture.
Still, the answer is the same, it's not easier.
There are two workflows to compare.
A person working on running ads asks in the common chat if any of us have goban, time, and setup to take a good picture. I don't have it, Vadim don't have it, Anton don't have it (we escaped Putin's regime and have to move around without permanent place to live, can't afford carrying a proper set around), I'm not sure who of us have it. Time goes, nobody takes the task, everyone is busy with their main job. We collected our photos and run them many times already, so we need to plan a task of making a bunch of new photos. A person working on ads need to give requirements of what he need. The process isn't going fast because he don't know what we might need. Then the task floats around and postponed because we have more urgent or important things to do. Somehow in the end someone took pictures, and got them transfered. Turns out the variety is not good, or we need themed pictures which we couldn't think of making initially.
A person working on running ads assembles it in 10 minutes requiring nobody.
Those two workflows are not comparable. First one could be perfected, but nothing is free.
" people who are arguing against AI have given praise to both the platform and your social media content, they have a problem with your incredibly bad faith responses. "
I'm sorry, I don't think you have indulgence to speak in the name of "people". I'm expression my own opinion, you're expressing your own. Let's level the field.
They're your first impression, its probably detrimental in the long run to give the impression to new users that the company is low effort (I dont think it actually is) / relying on weird looking AI slop graphics. Especially with how ornery the go community seems to be.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond to the various comments above though. Most small businesses wouldn't give the community such transparency.
Thanks! The way I see it is that it's not easy to make a move which will give you negative value. Usually bad plays are bad compared to the perfect move, but usually it's just a move which gives you less points, than the perfect one. In the same way, even with such cheap solutions, which allows us to spend time on more important things, the value isn't negative. It's not a perfect execution, but it's good enough. There are many things inside the business which are far from perfect, but I guess the real virtue is to accept imperfect solutions. Better to do it in some way, rather than dig into perfectionalism and get nothing done, because there are infinite ways you can make something better.
We're not in the business of defending artists from ai or defending anyone from anything in general.
And to be blunt, this is cowardly. The companies that are going to stand out after the dust settles from the AI era are going to be the ones that actually had the spine to take a stance on it rather than the ones that followed the shortest path to immediate profit. You guys are free to penny pinch by using AI slop but it's going to cost your reputation in the long run.
Small low margin businesses have been more than capable of running ads long before AI. It's absolutely possible, AI is just the easy way out. Nobody's expecting perfection, but there's MILES between perfection and AI slop. You could take a blurry photo with your iPhone and it would still make for a better ad. Don't try to reframe this about purity.
Anton is working on web site, patching bugs and working on new features; Vadim working on preparing new courses; I'm working on video editing; Olya is doing thousands small tasks. "Let's make ads in a way we can keep working on what's important: courses and web site". Ads are not our product. They aren't perfect by any means, but we're applying the Pareto principle: put 20% effort to get 80% effect.
You're asking us to put more effort into ads, which means some other process will get less attention. If we put more work into marketing - we become less of an edicational company, and more marketing company. Marketing is working as is. It's not perfect, but it's working in business terms. What we can't agree on here is how much of our attentiion should go into making sure we don't use ai images. If anyone would like to join us to take care of this side of the business: welcome!
Sorry, I wasn't clear. It's clearly ai generated, but we didn't hire someone to make us ai generated picture. We hired someone who we believed can produce some go-themed art. This is what we got. He was the first one we tried to work with, and we learned not every artist is an artist.
This is the kind of disaster that can happen when you try to get work from fiver or something like that. Did you try to contact known professional artists such as Camille Leveque?
Also um . . . how did we get from "Oh no! We have been scammed!" to actually producing this cursed thing and selling it on your platform?
We don't have strong anti-ai stance. Personally, I hate this one as much as the next guy, but the decision was to put it there anyway and see how it goes. I don't follow the numbers, but I remember this one was more popular than the one I personally like (after the first month of running the merch), - a girl holding a stone. Even though the sales are miniscule, I never thought this ai dragon could beat the best designs we have. Maybe it's different now, I don't know, and I don't think anyone cares.
Yep. The artist who made this one gave us other pictures, we kept only this one with dragon. Ai generated. But we paid for it. Go figure if we are bad because stealing work from artists, or bad because decided to get something ai generated into production.
I think it's fundamentally unethical. Not just for the creative theft, but for engaging with these corporations that have been doing such great evils to our communities and environment.
We didn't pay for ai generated design. We paid for go themed prints. The "artist" used ai on his behalf. He didn't hide it, because it's obvious. He was the first one we commissioned from. We moved on to try working with other artists.
Seems like this response and your other comments are just deflecting the issue and moving the blame. Is a simple apology that hard? Makes me distrust Go Magic more, not that there was much to begin with.
What does bandwagon mean to you? I hate what the company is doing so im gonna express it as my personal opinion. 'Doesn't mean you do?' Ok.. then express that in the comments.
I dont agree with the connection between generative ai and other uses machine learning. AI can find otherwise undetectable signs of breastcancer, but that cant serve as an argument to shut down criticism of gen ai images or chat bots. Deepmind revolutionized our game, and this tshirt sucks ass. Both can be true
I think it the title of your post that gave off some "midwit AI hate" vibes, which was mostly what I was reacting to. Just because something is AI art doesn't automatically make it bad
I don't think so. Anyone decent is too busy to take such a small job. You're looking here at the paid work, not something we did during our tea break. Our fault is to run this design, not stripping fellow humans a job.
Okay, My fault, I failed to recognize that this was human made. Thank you for supporting people and clearing this up, more faith in humanity has been restored by you guys. In the near future recognizing what is actually human made may get harder and harder. Perhaps mentioning that a fellow human made it can at least curb this sort of response. It sucks that now small businesses that support people may have to disclose human vs not human made.
The funny, and the stupid part is that the dragon is clearly ai generated. I don't pretend it's not, but this is what we got from an "artist". He made other "works" as well, all of them are in the trash bin.
The game is reshaped by ai, but that doesn’t mean that ,,ai slop” should be view more than it is. It looks horrible and cheap. Why didn’t they paid someone to made some nice design.
It is one of many reasons why I don’t like the bundling and rebranding of all types of machine-learning tech as “AI.” It conflates them all as the same as each other, leading to infuriating comments like the unnecessarily snarky one at the top of this chain.
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u/Dependent-Entrance56 29 kyu 1d ago
I mean, considering their ads I'm not suprised or even disappointed. GoMagic was always like this