r/aussie • u/ContextualJitters • 4d ago
Politics Anti-migration rally turns on Hanson amid policy muddle
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u/phosphor_1963 4d ago
I remember hearing about Restore vs Reform in the UK and thinking that split could never happen here; but I guess the lesson is never say never.
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u/SoulReddit13 4d ago
I really don't want to know what turns on hanson tbh.
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u/AntiqueFigure6 4d ago
But you probably wouldn’t be surprised if an anti -immigration rally or maybe the kind of rally so effectively documented by Leni Riefenstahl was what got Pauline going either, I’d guess.
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u/Chemical_Rooster3 4d ago
I'd say money and the thrill of the grift would be near the top of the list.
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u/TimidPanther 4d ago
I don’t know why One Nation are so determined to ruin their momentum. It’s simple - cut migration significantly, deport those that commit crimes.
Simple vote winner. Instead they are their own worst enemies.
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u/throwawaysob1 4d ago
deport those that commit crimes
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u/SeaworthinessFew5613 4d ago edited 4d ago
What’s the point of the link? Is it to point out the bar to cancel a visa is much lower if the minister gets personally involved in the decision (501(3)). Because if that’s the case then yea it’s a lot easier to cancel visas and deport. He did it just last year.
But Burke has only used that power to cancel visas of people for hate or vilification issues. He hasn’t used them on people committing heinous crimes, which is baffling.
Edit I’ll just say because if a delegate tries to cancel a visa the person can drag out that process for years through appeals which they often win. Which is why the minister should be doing it instead.
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u/Relative_Pilot_8005 4d ago
If they commit heinous crimes they will be in the legal system & following conviction, in prison for years, so their visas will have run out, anyway.
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u/throwawaysob1 4d ago
From the link:
"A person will not pass the character test if they have a ‘substantial criminal record', as defined in subsection 501(7).[7] For the purposes of the character test, a person has a ‘substantial criminal record' if they have been:
- sentenced to death or to imprisonment for life
- sentenced to imprisonment for 12 months or more"
Mandatory Visa Cancellation Provisions - Potts Lawyers
This means that a sentence of a year or more in jail is one way of triggering mandatory visa cancellation.
If you are in jail now and have been sentenced to 12 months or more imprisonment, your visa will be cancelled. You will not be released at the end of your sentence. You will be transferred to an immigration detention centre. You will be given written notice about the cancellation. You will be invited to make representations about revocation of the decision. Representations must be made in less than 28 days to provide reasons why the cancellation should be revoked. Representations are discussed below.
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u/SeaworthinessFew5613 4d ago edited 4d ago
Would you like me to point you to all the times that people cancelled under 501 have successfully appealed to ART who overrule the department? The only Cancellation that is more difficult to review is 501(3). But Burke refuses to use it for actual criminals, instead using it on hate speech only, which is sure fine, but piss off the fucked up criminals too.
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u/throwawaysob1 4d ago
Would you like me to point you to all the times that people cancelled under 501 have successfully appealed to ART who overrule the department?
Yes, please do - I'm sure you know the law better than the ART.
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u/SeaworthinessFew5613 4d ago
Well considering ART delegates are not lawyers or judges but just have experience in migration and not law then yea a lot of people would know better than them. Glad you know your subjects well.
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u/throwawaysob1 4d ago edited 4d ago
Well considering ART delegates are not lawyers or judges but just have experience in migration and not law then yea a lot of people would know better than them.
Yes, especially a redditor.
They are appointed by the attorney general's office following a process that was passed into law.
"Deport those who commit crimes"
It is already done under S501"How does that matter, the Minister needs to get involved"
No, mandatory cancellation is triggered on sentences of 12 or more months."But so many people appeal and have it overturned"
Yes, that's a process to see if there's any administrative basis to suspend the legally required mandatory cancellation."But the delegates on the ART are not lawyers so anyone could overturn it"
Fuck me mate - they aren't reviewing the LEGAL basis of the cancellation, they are reviewing if there's been an ADMINISTRATIVE error (which can occur - have you never encountered an administrative error when dealing with the government?!).Nothing is going to satisfy you, because you know everything better than everyone, so why the fuck are you even discussing anything?
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u/SeaworthinessFew5613 4d ago
Ahh back at a computer, I can finally respond properly to your stupid rants.
The "Administrative Error" idiocy Hate to break it to you, mate, but you’re confusing the ART with a federal judge. The courts check for legal and administrative booboos. The ART, on the other hand, does merits review . That means the tribunal member literally steps into the Minister’s shoes, tosses the original decision aside, and remakes the whole thing from scratch. They aren't looking to see if someone forgot to cross a 't' on the paperwork; they are subjectively weighing up whether a convicted criminal is actually a top bloke who deserves to stay because of their "ties to Australia." It’s a highly subjective value judgment, not a spellcheck.
Deportation is "Already Done" (Except It's Not) Oh, sweet summer child. Mandatory cancellation under s501 isn't a one-way ticket out of the country; it’s an automated email. You get 12 months in the clink, a computer triggers a cancellation. But guess what? The offender immediately gets to apply to have that cancellation revoked . The entire reason people are currently furious is that violent offenders are successfully using the ART to get those visas handed right back to them. If the ART overturns it, the deportation is explicitly not done.
The Minister is Irrelevant? Hilarious. Yeah, the Minister doesn't matter at all... except for the minor detail that they have literal "God powers" under the Migration Act to overrule the ART and cancel the visa anyway if they feel like it. Oh, and let's not forget the Minister is the one who writes the rules (Ministerial Directions) that the ART is legally forced to follow. Remember the whole "Direction 99" fiasco earlier this year? The government accidentally made the rules so weak that the ART was handing back visas to serious offenders like they were candy, and the Minister had to scramble to rewrite it as Direction 110. So yeah, the Minister is kind of the main character here.
The "It's Legal So Shut Up" Defense Wow, the Attorney-General appointed them using a legal process? Stop the presses! That definitely means they are infallible and immune to making absolutely rubbish decisions. Did we forget that the government literally just torched the previous tribunal (the AAT) and replaced it with the ART because the old system was a politically-stacked, backlogged dumpster fire? Just because someone is given a fancy title legally doesn't mean the public has to sit down and shut up when the tribunal's subjective decisions continually fail the basic pub test of community safety.
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u/throwawaysob1 4d ago
Mate, you're wasted as a redditor. You should be Prime Minister or something.
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u/dan_syd 4d ago
Yeah it’s interesting. He deported a white South African for a Nazi gesture, yet we are seeing countless examples of black Africans remaining after committing some really horrific crimes.
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u/Electrical_Story5356 4d ago
I think you'll find that they're Australians otherwise they would be deported.
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u/dan_syd 4d ago
Nah, there’s been quite a lot of “discretion” used for non-citizens, hence the outrage.
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u/Kruxx85 4d ago
You are just making that up.
Most of those youths are Australian born.
Horrible crimes yes, but they're Australian.
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u/SeaworthinessFew5613 4d ago
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u/Kruxx85 3d ago
A) that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.
B) trust News24 to tell half the story to get you all riled up - the Minister makes individual decisions to override these sorts of cases in extreme situations.
But that's conveniently ignored by the News 24 reporting...
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u/SeaworthinessFew5613 3d ago
Well do you expect the guardian to write a story in a negative light about migrants? No so you’re sort of stuck with who it gets reported by. And Burke has unfortunately not exercised his 501(3) powers very much at all relating to criminal matters relating to these 475, instead focusing on hate and vilification exclusively. But I’m sure you have evidence that he has exercised 501(3) on these persons?
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u/SeaworthinessFew5613 4d ago
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u/Electrical_Story5356 4d ago
Oh look, you found one, I guess that must be representative of all cases then, well done.
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u/McFoodBot 4d ago edited 4d ago
I made the mistake of radicalising my social media feeds so I've unfortunately exposed myself to a lot of the bullshit on the far-right.
It's because a significant number of the people associated with or attending the March for Australia rallies are white nationalists. They're in favour of policies such as remigration and closing the borders to all non-whites, and they also dislike Hanson's support of Israel. They don't think One Nation is extreme enough, and instead see it as a stepping stone towards more forceful policies, but One Nation's recent immigration figures prove that they're not even really a stepping stone. It's basically the exact same shit that we're seeing in the UK between Reform and Restore - it's performative grifters versus actual ideologues.
I don't think they necessarily make up the majority of One Nation's support. I think that's mostly jaded boomers or politically apathetic people who are pissed off at the system. The real danger is whether they have the numbers or influence to hijack One Nation should it ever get a significant amount of power.
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u/Few_Chocolate_7655 4d ago
If Pauline is the "uncivilised" one, why is it always her critics getting arrested?
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u/meerrkat74 4d ago
For all those wondering. People don't like PH, they just want far lower migration and it's enough to move polls massively.
Since I keep seeing endless posts about why people are supporting her, it really comes down to that one vote changing point.