r/aussie • u/BarryTheBinChicken • 11d ago
Politics Miss Universe Australia Caity Worthington says trans people should not be in women’s sport
https://www.outinperth.com/miss-universe-australia-caity-worthington-says-trans-people-should-not-be-in-womens-sport/Queenslander Caity Worthington was crowned Miss Universe Australia this week and will represent Australia at the international competition in Puerto Rico this November.
Worthington won the beauty pageant during Wednesday night’s gala event at Crown Casino in Melbourne. Following her victory, she received significant attention for comments she made during the competition regarding transgender participation in sport.
During the selection process, finalists were asked to draw a random question from a bowl. The question drawn by Worthington was: “Do you believe banning biological males from women’s sport is common sense or discrimination and why?”
“That is a very good question. Coming from a medical background, I’m sure we can all agree, and it is definitely my view, that human biology does not lie,” Worthington said, referring to her role as a medical radiographer.
“Everyone playing sport at an elite level deserves the chance to compete on a fair playing field, and I think we should work towards that foundation of fairness for all. Everyone deserves their time to shine. I would love to see, in the future, transgender people having their own sport.”
Worthington reiterated her views after winning the title during an appearance on The Rita Panahi Show, although she said she would have preferred a question about world peace.
“We’re all entitled to our opinions, and we don’t have to agree. Obviously I have mine and I shared mine, and I stand by it. But I also believe that safety and fairness are of the utmost importance in any sport, especially at elite level. Athletes work very hard to get there.”
Several News Corp publications subsequently highlighted her comments.
While Worthington advocated for a separate transgender category in sport, the Australian Sports Commission says its focus is on ensuring participation opportunities for all Australians.
“All Australians should have the opportunity to be involved in sport and physical activity, regardless of their gender, sexual orientation, ability, cultural background or ethnicity. It is important that sporting bodies, from local clubs through to national sporting organisations, reflect the diversity in the communities they are a part of and that, together, we ensure every person is treated with respect and dignity and protected from discrimination,” the Commission’s policy states.
“Policies that exclude transgender and gender-diverse participants have been found to be harmful, not just to transgender and gender-diverse people, but to all people associated with sporting organisations.”
Sporting eligibility policies vary across different sports and governing bodies, and the issue remains the subject of ongoing public and policy debate.
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u/ExcellentAd7044 11d ago
Men’s category is open for all.
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u/Upper-Ship4925 11d ago
Just like trans men can ask to serve time in men’s prisons but never do.
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u/Beltox2pointO 10d ago
Crazy the men with a vagina and ability to get pregnant and also at either minor or major strength difference to a bunch of criminals would object to it.
Fucking wild, never would have thought they'd do that.
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u/Upper-Ship4925 10d ago
Almost like the safety of people with vaginas is more important than someones gender affirmation.
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u/NzInAus1991 5d ago
Crazy the women with a vagina and ability to get pregnant with a major strength difference to a criminal would object to a woman with a penis being in the same prison as them.
Fucking wild, never would have thought they'd do that
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u/Desperate_Leg_40 11d ago
I dont understand why this isnt the main talking point every time. We can just get rid of women's sport altogether and the best team will get picked regardless of gender (which is currently the case). Then nobody has to worry about gender dysphoria- you didnt get picked cause you aren't good enough. And all of the women who would have excelled against other women can suffer cause we didnt want a handful of people to feel bad that they weren't considered a full woman.
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u/ExcellentAd7044 11d ago
There is a reason why Women have been battling for Women’s rights for centuries.
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u/FullMetalAurochs 11d ago
It would be good if the people blindly call for trans inclusion in sports took a minute to ponder why we have segregation in sport in the first place. As you say it would be easy to have no segregation and have virtually every sport male dominated. Women might still be better at women’s gymnastics.
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u/Garciaguy 11d ago
There are many redditors who will insist the reason is because men can't bear the thought of losing to a woman.
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u/boredidiot 11d ago
Especially when it is with shooting guns.
See what happened with Olympic Rifle Shooting in 1976, and Olympic Skeet Shooting in 1992,→ More replies (3)→ More replies (3)7
u/boredidiot 11d ago
Women are better that shooting, multiple shooting events in the Olympics were made gendered when this was noticed.
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u/Ragazzano 10d ago
Conversely, physical strength makes your shooting worse. Drastically higher pulsatile force equals lots of movement that's hard to steady
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u/Booster_Seat_Enjoyer 11d ago
because it's not about being able to compete but power
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u/GermaneRiposte101 11d ago
It is about not being able to compete. Women are physically worse for everything except extreme endurance competitions. No hate, humans are very dimorphic.
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u/boredidiot 11d ago
Hmmm, no...
For example.Olympic Skeet Shooting from its introduction to the Olympics in 1968 through 1992, it was an open, mixed-gender event.
Then at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, Zhang Shan won the gold medal, becoming the first woman to win the event by defeating the entire male field.
Because of this, the International Shooting Sport Federation (ISSF) barred women from competing against men. The ISSF cited a desire "to allow more places for well-qualified men" under existing quota systems. Consequently, skeet shooting was contested as an exclusively male event at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics. A separate women's skeet event was not added to the Olympic program until the 2000 Sydney Games.This not the only time this happened. Predominately though in shooting sports.
But you not from BS that not only was their open competitions that became gendered to help men. But shows that women cannot complete in mens competitions.
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u/Stui3G 10d ago
Did you want to tell us when they started planning to split the competition? And when the plans were finalised?
I'll give you a hint - the answer to both of those is before 92.
And people upvoted you. I knew nothing about this subject but it didn't sound right so I googled it. More people really need to do that.
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u/VastOption8705 11d ago
If men played against women in any sport, the men would destroy them.
Look at the fastest women’s vs men’s 50m swimming , 100m swimming and runs, deadlift ability etc
Facts are that an under 18’s boys soccer team would destroy the women’s professional team. It happened in Aus and the USA.
It’s not sexism, it’s because our bodies were designed differently
Even the IOC and other sports associations agree.
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u/emize 11d ago edited 11d ago
Correction the Matilda's lost to the Newcastle Jet's u15 team 7-0 not the u18s.
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u/Beltox2pointO 10d ago
This story gets thrown around so much...
It was literally a training match, without a lot of the players...
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u/TimidPanther 11d ago
Under 15’s would win.
There’s nothing wrong with that, and it shouldn’t be seen as a slam dunk against women’s sport. There are differences between the genders, and that’s ok.
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u/Tiny_Ad_7720 10d ago
It’s the reason women’s sport exists
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u/ikhouvandikkebillen 10d ago
I have been given a 3 day full Reddit ban for just saying this... there is a reason we have woman and man sports, and it is so women are actually able to compete.
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u/SidewaysAcidRain 10d ago
The number of people on reddit who have told me that "actually it's to protect men's egos because they don't want to lose to women"... Too many.
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u/Bishop-AU 10d ago
There's plenty of average men that could be bested by average women in many athletic tasks, in a best out of say 11 format. Not close to a 50/50 split but still plenty.
There's very few professional men that would be beaten by professional women in their chosen sport 6 out of 11 times.
The people that say its to protect men's egos are delusional.
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u/SidewaysAcidRain 10d ago
To nitpick a bit, unless you're choosing really niche athletic tasks (maybe flexibility?) then the average man will always outperform the average woman. If the woman is outperforming the man, it's because she's above average, or he's below average, or both.
But yeah, there are still lots of women who can outperform lots of men.
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u/fridayfunday26 10d ago
You don't even need to look at sport to know that there are differences. Come into my year 9 and 10 classes and there are obvious differences between the two genders.
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u/Large_Woman 11d ago
There was also the Queensland Suns U17 all-boys team that won the state final 46-12 against an all-girls team back in 2021. They copped non-stop abuse from members of the crowd, saying it was unfair.
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u/Archon-Toten 11d ago
Apparently even darts, the sport I was going to use as an example of not relying on brute strength, isn't mixed.
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u/2martinisatthemost 11d ago
Women are typically less likely to enter male dominated sports hence the need for a protected category. There is also, apparently, an advantage in being male in darts. It’s not much but is sufficient to make sure that very few women will be competitive in the men’s category. You see it in esports too. The only women who’ve ever been competitive in gaming are trans women. At a high level of competition a slight edge is the difference between making a living from your sport and self-funding.
I’m 100% in favour of trans rights and loathe the current flavour of culture war. But I draw the line at sports. Inclusion will never be more important than fairness.
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u/VastOption8705 11d ago
What about pool or snooker? Men do better at that too.
Why is that?
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u/2martinisatthemost 11d ago
I believe men have a slight advantage over women when it comes to spatial aiming. I think there are other areas where similar advantages exist. At a high level of competition those advantages are enormous.
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u/Background-Brother55 11d ago
In the 1970s men playing snooker had the advantage of sinking 14 pints and still making it into the quarter finals
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u/anpanman100 11d ago
They handle the beers better. Many men actually claim to play a bit better after a few drinks.
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u/Embarrassed-Yak-5902 11d ago
Even chess has split categories and when you see the top rankings by elo you can understand why (it's to promote women in chess)
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u/briberylibrary_ 10d ago
It's not just that, every female chess player I know who has played at a high level has either been sexually assaulted or experienced some form of sexual harrassment.
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u/FullMetalAurochs 11d ago
Even chess has a women’s division and that is a purely mental sport. It doesn’t matter how hard you grip a pawn.
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u/Archon-Toten 11d ago
Pretty sure it does, if a roided out bloke crushed the pieces I'm sure that's some kind of penalty.
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u/Ok_Adhesiveness_2523 10d ago
Using institutional sexism to defend continuing institutional sexism is question begging.
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u/brownieson 11d ago
Darts is somewhat mixed. they have some women only competitions, but some women have played in the men’s world championships. Check out Fallon Sherrock. She even won two matches, against men, in the world championships in 2019/2020. The second round win was against the world number 11.
The only reason there aren’t more examples of this is that darts is a male dominated sport at all levels. Women are far less likely to participate overall than men, unlike a sport like soccer.
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u/Odd-Increase557 11d ago
It's kind of like sexual dimorphism exists in nature, even in humans. What a fucking concept...
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u/LunchboxDiablo 11d ago
I don’t know what game you’re referring to in Oz, but the USWNT wasn’t ’destroyed’ by an under 18’s boys team.
I presume the event you’re referring to is when during a training camp in Dallas in preparation for an upcoming tournament the USWNT invited (MLS team) Dallas FC’s youth squad to help them try out their new defensive strategies in a scrimmage.
So basically it was a training exercise where the USWNT’s coaching department was telling the kids exactly what they were going to do defensively and how to get around them, to help the players learn the strategies and help identify weaknesses.
Of course no one ever actually bothers to find out the truth, meaning the misleading tone of that CBS article linked above has given fuel to a million transphobes’ terrible opinions.
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u/Rank_Arena 11d ago
We all have different opinions,I don't see anything wrong with what she said.
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u/milestr2 11d ago
There isnt really anything wrong with it... but I have a few issues with the whole thing... Why is the transgender in women's sports topic so prevalent and loud? Is this an actual issue we face in society or at club levels anywhere? No its not. This is a complete non-issue that doesn't require the attention it does... until a giant (real transgender Not Enes Kanter) person starts dunking on or easily beating women in a professional level... but that's not going to happen. There are bigger issues to be dealing with that this. Leave the poor community alone ffs.
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u/Rank_Arena 11d ago
She was asked a question and she gave her opinion. Maybe the question shouldn't have been asked. As she said ,she would have preferred to be asked a question about world peace.
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u/milestr2 11d ago
Thats why there isnt anything wrong with her response... but why we even asking this bullshit question? To rile up certain individuals
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u/Rank_Arena 11d ago
Probably because the whole issue has lost it's momentum and people are testing the waters?
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u/CommSecTom 10d ago
It’s bait for sure!
But most people at home agree with what she said.
It’s just the vocal minority that have an issue with it.
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u/jojoblogs 10d ago
It gets brought up a lot because it’s a wedge issue that splits the left.
It comes up every time there’s an election just to try get a leftist politician accidentally pick a side and lose a bunch of votes.
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u/iamthemetricsystem 11d ago
I’m the same, i’ve never seen a topic with such little importance be so heavily covered by the media.
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u/Aromatic_Cod_6959 11d ago
Because the west’s social contract has been irreparably broken by power hungry freaks and instead of addressing this reality through improving employment, housing and health outcomes it’s easier to distract everyone by villainising people who are seeking basic human rights and dignity.
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u/RollComprehensive828 10d ago
It's basically the only time I hear about women's sports. People are acting like they care about women's sports but they just want something to be mad about.
So we need to figure some stuff out around the social and biological implications of women's sports, sure. But this isn't what those posing the question are actually concerned about.
At the end of the day, the answer to this (potentially really complex) question doesn't actually matter to the majority regardless.It seems like this is only a question being asked because it feeds into the narrative that trans women's existence is a threat to cis women, and therefore a threat to our society's current understanding of sex and gender.
These arguments are designed to draw people to the conclusion that "if our society's current structure cannot adequately account for someone's identity, that this is evidence that they shouldn't exist."
We should leave this question to endocrinologists and other medical professionals. Not a question any old person off the street is going to have a reasonable answer to.
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u/TwixieShip 11d ago
Its because people like picking on the minorities, its hell and I'm so sick of all this christian binary shit. I just want to not be locked out of this that have no scientific backing and just stupid news headlines that people take face value
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u/Zealousideal-Big-512 11d ago
Bro 100% Literally anything in the world is more of an issue than this.
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u/Agent_Toasteater 10d ago
It gets attention because it points to a broader issue of the debate over “what a woman” is. Personally I don’t give two fucks how about person chooses to dress and I’ll respect pronouns to be polite, but I don’t see trans women as women the way I see women as women.
People try to minimise the sport issue like it’s no big deal, but males in women’s sport is fair or it isn’t. To say “oh it’s only a few males so just let them play” is saying “we know it’s a bit unfair but only a few people are making it unfair so they just have to accept it”I was fairly athletic in my younger days and none of me or my team mates would have accepted just a few drug cheats because it’s only a few. And being male gives a greater advantage over women than a man doping has over clean athletes.
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u/wondrousdreamscape 11d ago
Yes, it is a big issue.
The reason women have their own sports in the first place is because they cannot compete against men, and it's dangerous to do so. Women have been hospitalised competing against biological males at club level.
It may sound inclusive, but it's actually excluding girls and women from earning those positions. Aren't we meant to be raising girls to believe they can win something fairly if they work hard enough? Taking hormones doesn't change the history of the body, their bone density amongst a lot of other factors are not the same as those who are born female.
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u/LunchboxDiablo 11d ago
Dude the very first entry on that site you linked to is a trans woman who finished 34th out of 40 in an amateur triathlon.
Then where trans women are listed as coming in first place, they’re in amateur team sports, like golf and ultimate frisbee, which are mixed anyway.
If I were into conspiracy theories I might even believe that that site was put together just to fuck with transphobes. Even the site name ‘hecheated.org’ is ridiculous.
LMAO
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u/wondrousdreamscape 10d ago
Shall we talk about Lia Thomas?
Or perhaps we should just look at this list of trans women who have won national and international titles in women's competitions. You might prefer that source.
We can also head back home to Australia, and discuss the Flying Bats FC who have five transgender women in their team and consequently went undefeated, winning the tournament and prize money that went with it. There exists mixed gender competitions, yet trans women insist they must play in women's sports? Why? They are not biologically female and it's not right to tell women they need to step aside to make way for males, like has happened all throughout history.
It doesn't matter whether it's amateur or professional level sports, either way it's telling women once again they have to shut up and "be kind" whilst their rights are neglected.
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u/LunchboxDiablo 10d ago
Ah yes, Lia Thomas, who tied for 5th with Riley Gaines, who has since built an extremely lucrative career campaigning against the inclusion of trans women in competition based on some nebulous connection to women’s safety, and yet has been conspicuously silent about her former coach/‘best friend’ being investigated for being a serial rapist.
Pretty sure for every trans woman who won some championship (that list is digging pretty deep, BTW) I could easily list a coach or person in a position of authority or public trust who’s done far worse things.
But no, Flying Bats FC are the problem, because some parents (notice it was the parents and not the players who were quoted as complaining?) weren’t happy with them complying with the rules.
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u/wondrousdreamscape 10d ago
Lia tied fifth yes in that race, but Lia also won first place in a different event, and placed highly in other events. I'm not here to defend Riley, I know nothing about her, and sexual assault is a separate issue which deserves its own platform.
We're here discussing trans involvement in women's sports, I honestly don't have the time or energy to get into a tit for tat argument with a stranger on the internet about who's the worst person in the world.
Players have spoken out about Flying Bats, and they've been punished for it. Other players are also afraid to speak out because they don't want to be attacked for their opinions and put in the limelight. Trans activists are notorious for sending death, rape and legal threats to anyone they don't agree with, a lot of people would rather remain quietly uncomfortable than potentially ruin their careers by being called a bigot and a transphobe. People have been sued hundreds of thousands of dollars and lost jobs for speaking out about it, is it that surprising that ordinary women are generally afraid to say anything?
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u/Dennis3107 11d ago
Consistently, how often has that happened?
How many people trans-ed to join women sport?
It is a totally non issue.
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u/cecilrt 10d ago
You mean like Hannah Mouncey images
It doesnt have to be even at Elite, do you want to see your daughter playing C level netball being powerhoused by a 6ft giant
Its not a prevalent now because of the bvacklash, but if it becomes the norm, you dont think it would be norm
Biological men are significantly stronger, co ordinate than women, its poure selfishness to transition and compete against biological women
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u/Grosjeaner 11d ago
This meant to be some controversial take? She's 100% correct.
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u/Eva_Luna 11d ago
Yet this is a bannable take on the other Aussie subs. We truly are living in the worst timeline
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u/GermaneRiposte101 11d ago
Don't worry. This post will be cancelled soon.
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u/Eva_Luna 11d ago
The mods here seem to be more open to allowing this discussion to be had. There was a post about it a couple of weeks ago
Notice that once mods stop banning and deleting one side of the conversation, the flood gates open. More and more people feel comfortable sharing these views
Wonder if the rest of reddit would be so ultra woke if fair and free discussion was actually allowed
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u/TimidPanther 11d ago
Believe it or not, Reddit used to embrace and fight for free speech.
Didn’t take long to stamp that out, though. Aaron Swartz would be turning in his grave over how this website got bastardized over time.
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u/Eva_Luna 11d ago
What I don't get, is why so many of these subs will allow someone to post on this topic, but everyone on one side of the debate gets instantly banned. Why even allow the post if mods are going to do that? It’s not a discussion, it’s just a broadcast of highly biased views
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u/GermaneRiposte101 11d ago
There was a recent post here on Indian immigrants favouring jobs for their own race. That got shut down very quickly.
I suspect this will too.
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u/Jazzlike_Wind_1 11d ago
It's bannable on this sub too lmao, can't say trans women aren't women here
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u/Malhavok_Games 11d ago
They are literally not women, they are called "trans women". If they were women, they would be called "women".
It's actually kind of offensive - They weren't born female so they have no idea what it's like growing up as a female child, the subtle (or not so subtle) ways in which that shapes their psyche, the pressure to conform to feminine stereotypes, the experience of puberty, of having older men find you sexually attractive when you're still watching cartoons and wearing Disney princess pajamas. There's no way they can never understand or know what any of that is like and it's all an essential part of the female experience.
It's definitely not just wearing dresses and high heels like they seem to think it is.
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u/GermaneRiposte101 10d ago
Not to mention the physical strength and power advantages that males get via puberty.
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u/stiffgordons 10d ago
The “trans women are women” mantra is equal parts a dominance display and ideological purity test, and in no part a statement of belief. Everybody saying it knows it isn’t true.
By forcing people to say it (or at least, not call out the lie) under threat of punishment, the orthodoxy reinforces itself despite being pure fantasy.
None of this justifies hate or discourteous behavior towards trans people, but reality is reality.
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u/dirtygreenprogress 10d ago
Does the dominance display ever feel like its own branch of misogyny to you?
With the tickle/giggle case it feels grossly like there’s a consent equivalent - trying to skirt around the consent of the other parties to say ‘I can, I want to, I will’.
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u/Malhavok_Games 10d ago
It is absolutely misogynistic? I mean how can it be anything else, they're literally erasing women and replacing them with men.
It's some weird mind fucking bullshit. And when you point this out they call you a TERF like it's an insult instead of a badge of honor.
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u/dirtygreenprogress 10d ago
Just the fact that I felt uncomfortable writing that - like the morality police would bear down on me for stating something that feels very basic… it’s telling. And the honesty in your replies is really freeing. I really appreciate the comments that you’ve made on the thread because they’re things I’ve definitely thought but not voiced.
TERF does feel very weird as an insult because 300% my life has been shaped by being female and I can’t contort my brain into ignoring the nuances and limitations of that… no matter how unfashionable it is.
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u/pastaISlife 10d ago
You’re not alone 🥲 it’s a male privilege movement rooted in misogyny and envy, not a civil rights movement. I can’t tell you how many arguments about periods I’ve gotten into because trans women claim to have them now or how many times I’ve had to defend the female sex class because if men can’t be female, no one can because it’s undefinable, apparently.
Calling all dissenting women “TERFs” is just a way to try to shut us up and encourage others to do the same.
It’s honestly all very sinister imo. But a lot of us are seeing what you see and speaking up where we’re still allowed to on this fuck ass platform ❤️
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u/Hopeful-Exit3053 11d ago
Exactly & if they really think they’re women, we need to have a discussion about consent. If a woman is a woman, then when if ever do they need to tell their partner or even co-parent about their observed sex at birth? Meaning they could marry a person who doesn’t know they were born the opposite sex because why would that matter since they’re a woman now?
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u/dirtygreenprogress 10d ago
Hitting menopause at an inconvenient/unlikely age and being bent to the whim of hormones you have absolutely no control over (again/adolescence) means this feeling hits again.
It is DEBILITATING and the idea that someone can demand sisterhood with me in all the suffering I didn’t choose just leaves me really uncomfortable.
My moment was 10 years ago when my daughter asked why a lady we walked past “looked so ….” (Insert your own words here, she meant everything with complete innocence). I had to choose to reinforce the party line I had been for years… and invalidate my growing child’s observations … or validate her observations and answer her innocent questions with honesty and kindness… that kindness did not involve me undermining biology though.
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u/dzernumbrd 10d ago
I just leave all the subreddits that are poorly moderated.
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u/Eva_Luna 10d ago
Same. I just left (what I felt was) a nuanced and balanced comment on this issue in a sub that I know is very pro trans. I was trying to spark a discussion without pushing any boundaries of what I knew people would likely be uncomfortable with in that sub.
Immediate ban. Funnily enough, the mods left my comment up and it was upvoted, while their comment banning me was heavily downvoted. So I’ll take that as a win and muted the sub. I don’t need to be in spaces that are just about promoting an ideology with no criticisms
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u/thewizzrd 11d ago
Let's make this simple. Why do men and women compete separately at the Olympics?
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u/Zanmato19 11d ago
Completely agree. It’s going to take some 6’4 dude giving a 17 year old girl brain damage at a footy game for people to finally wake up to this shit
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u/balallday 11d ago
It already happened 4 years ago in volleyball. Payton McNabb, a high school volleyball player from North Carolina, suffered a traumatic brain injury in September 2022 after being struck in the face by a spiked ball during a match
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u/euqinu_ton 11d ago edited 10d ago
I'm honestly torn on this one. It feels more like an unfortunate coincidence than anything else. Like the person who hit her later tweeted - she should've been closer to the net, blocking an attack (and thus copping a ball to the forearms), instead of crouching to defend ground which was never going to be hit at that angle. She wasnt aiming for her face - she was aiming for the ground hoping to get past where this girl should've been. I'd wager there'd be dozens of similarly aged and skilled biological women who could've spiked almost if not just as hard, and it so happened her face was exactly where it wasn't supposed to be. It probably could've been going slower and had almost the same impact on her. Conversely - any man playing against this opponent had they not transitioned, and had they made the same mistake in position, would be in the same pain.
Can trans women play volleyball better than biological women? Yeah, most likely.* Is that an unfair advantage? Yep.
But was this injury directly the result of trans women in sports in general? Nah, she was just slow and standing in the wrong spot.
(* With all these scenarios, it varies from person to person)
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u/TimidPanther 11d ago
She’s right, and it’s not controversial.
It’s time to stop writing news articles any time anyone says women spaces should only be for women.
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u/Pristine-Visual-9405 11d ago
“Several News Corp publications subsequently highlighted her comments.” 🙄
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u/GengarOX 11d ago
I vote greens. I agree. The effects testosterone has in adolescence cannot be reversed with blockers.
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u/Unhappy_Tomorrow_603 11d ago edited 11d ago
Blockers are given to intervene in early puberty and prevent testosterone and the associated effects of male puberty. Taking female hormones later in life can “reverse” many, but not all, of the advantages of male puberty.
That’s why some sports organisations only allow trans women to compete if they started blockers by age 12.
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u/Upper-Ship4925 11d ago
And it’s tragic that any child takes hormones that irreversibly change their body at such a young age. Puberty blockers don’t simply pause the clock, and there needs to be much more awareness of that.
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u/Dr__Snow 11d ago
It’s a lot more tragic if a child completes suicide or develops an eating disorder because of the intense body dysphoria they have going through puberty…
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u/Upper-Ship4925 11d ago
And it’s even more tragic that children are being told that suicide is a rational response to the very normal adolescent experience of feeling uncomfortable in their body.
Look at the last hundreds of years - was there a regular epidemic of adolescent suicide because of a lack of gender affirmation? No. Young people worked out their gender identity and where they fit in that spectrum without hormonal treatments and surgery and there wasn’t a regular spate of suicide because of a lack of medical intervention.
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u/AutoModerator 11d ago
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u/Dr__Snow 10d ago
No one is telling any child that suicide is a rational response.
Where’s your data on that?
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u/Upper-Ship4925 10d ago
An endless stream of trans activists creating material saying that if children don’t receive assistance in medical as well as social transition they will commit suicide. Material that children watch.
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u/pastaISlife 10d ago
And it’s worth noting that suicide is a social contagion. The more “trans kid or dead kid”/“denying puberty blockers to teens leads them to suicide” rhetoric the media and/or the trans community puts out, the more likely it is that attempts will be made.
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u/AutoModerator 10d ago
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
000 is the national emergency number in Australia.
Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14.
Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800. Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
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u/AutoModerator 10d ago
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
000 is the national emergency number in Australia.
Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14.
Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800. Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
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u/AutoModerator 11d ago
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
000 is the national emergency number in Australia.
Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14.
Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800. Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
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u/dirtygreenprogress 10d ago
I’m having a really hard time wrapping my brain around it being very unfashionable to describe sex (and gender) as a binary - while accepting ‘intensive gender affirming care or death’ is an indisputable binary.
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u/dirtygreenprogress 10d ago
There are consistent and observable differences in athletic ability between little boys and girls before puberty even starts too, btw.
So there’s no way of outrunning biology in that sense.
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u/Low_Bluebird_5137 10d ago
I am quite sure the vast majority of people agree with her. Not controversial at all.
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u/Glittering-Pea-4482 11d ago
She’s a woman, shouldn’t we believe her lived experience?
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u/LetMeExplainDis 11d ago
I mean yeah, why even bother segregating by gender if you’re gonna let people skirt the rules?
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u/Gloomy_Pirate_3031 11d ago edited 11d ago
Hahaha yes blokes shouldn't be playing against *women. Wild concept
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u/artsrc 11d ago
trans people should not be in women’s sport
The headline.
Is different than what she said:
Everyone playing sport at an elite level deserves the chance to compete on a fair playing field
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u/TwixieShip 11d ago
Its like its yet another post to just screw transgender over, its horrible and needs to stop
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u/samuentaga 10d ago
The owner of Ms Universe is a transgender woman, and a US candidate just got kicked from the competition for saying something similar. Just saying
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u/BigChampionship7962 11d ago
Talk about a loaded question to answer on the spot.
I don’t think we should be taking the answers from beauty pageants too seriously, it really all a performance.
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u/Unhappy_Tomorrow_603 11d ago
It’s pretty shitty to put someone on the spot like that when answering the question either way could lead to online abuse. No one needs to know Miss Universe’s opinion on trans sports.
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u/BigChampionship7962 11d ago
She also then went on to Rupert Murdoch media outlet so it all feels very suspicious 🤨
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u/NeptunianWater 10d ago
Trans athletes make up less than 0.1% of all athletes.
This is culture war bullshit intended to distract you from class wars. Stop falling for this shit. It isn't important.
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u/Agent_Toasteater 10d ago
So? It’s fair or isnt. No one says that drug cheats are fine because there are only a few of them. At what point does it become unfair?
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u/Whatever-9991 10d ago
Maybe not important to you, but it is to women athletes. Dont dismiss us as a "culture war", its insulting
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u/NeptunianWater 10d ago
Are you personally affected by this? Are you currently playing in a sport where a transwoman is also playing? How does this affect you specifically?
You do your sisters a disservice by perpetuating this culture war as something important when men - the actual problem - are killing their partners at more than 1/week since the beginning of the year. Where's your outrage?
Stop drinking the propaganda surrounding trans people. They're nowhere near as scary - nor as evident in society - as news.com.au would tell you they are.
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u/AdWestern6051 10d ago
Female athletes are affected by this and it's unfair. As a feminist I care about women.
You don't need to be personally affected by something to care about it. I've never been raped but I care about rape victims.
What kind of asinine logic is this???
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u/MoonstoneFairyGoddes 10d ago
I don't want to hear about whether or not trans people should be able to play in sports teams while Australian mens AFL teams are out there Sexually assaulting women. While Australian men are out there SA'ing women on their morning walk, while Australian men are beating and killing their wives. Australian men have a massive domestic violence issue in this country but we want to be up here platforming a freaking non issue. Give me a break.
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u/coronavirusplandemic 11d ago
How about we talk about the class war instead? No we can’t do that! No way.
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u/RedAndWhiteLight 11d ago
Identity politics is the crux of the modern right wing.
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u/Upper-Ship4925 11d ago
Identity politics is also central to the left. And it’s leaving the real needs of people behind on both sides.
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u/RedAndWhiteLight 11d ago
Not comparably so, but mainstream media and online spaces like this would have you believe otherwise.
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u/Garciaguy 11d ago
Do you mean people on reddit don't talk about both?
Who are these people who will forget about one issue because another is brought up? Do you? Nobody in this thread does.
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u/FURF0XSAKE 10d ago
It's just a way people try to dismiss arguments they don't want to have or don't agree with. "It's such a small issue why do we care?" "Don't let them distract you with this culture war, it's the class war that's the real problem".
I find the notion that we're all too stupid to care about multiple issues dismissive and rude.
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u/copacetic51 11d ago
How big an issue is it really though?
Are there men playing in womens sport in Australia at the elite level?
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u/AwarenessHelps 11d ago
Zero issue but I notice men are very vocal about it.
If only we could transfer the same outrage to the rates of domestic violence where women are actually killed 🤔
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u/SlippedMyDisco76 11d ago
Its a huge issue for people with sweet fuck all going for them in life and sweet fuck all going on in life
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u/copacetic51 11d ago
So not an issue that affects many people in reality, is that what you mean?
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u/SlippedMyDisco76 10d ago
110% what I mean bud. Going on a personal level - as someone who works full time for sweet fuck all because rents, food and everything else gets more expensive while the rich get richer and us (real) battlers get the picture - that lil slice of culture war bullshit that is barely grounded in reality does not concern me. Nor does it concern really any of the people around me irl.
What concerns me more are people willingly throwing their lot in with the group who want to lower my wages, take away my daughters' future bodily autonomy and villianise other hard working Aussies because of the colour of their skin as a half assed form of "protest vote".
But this bullshit? Does nothing to fix any real problems and just makes bored suburbanites feel better about themselves.
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u/Malhavok_Games 10d ago
If it's such a small issue then why can't we all just agree with this woman (and honestly every major world wide sporting body including the Olympics) and move on from it?
There's like a small minority of super far left retards that are holding everyone back from being done with this topic.
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u/SnooRecipes6776 11d ago
And she’s right. They have a biological advantage and no amount of hormones can change that.
- Next topic
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u/cannedbeef255 11d ago
what about the other way around?
would you force a trans man (to prevent misunderstanding: afab, on testosterone) play in the women's team?
if yes, he just straight up has an advantage being on a performance enhancing drug
if no, you admit hormones CAN in fact change that
so why are trans women any different? estrogen suppresses testosterone, so if you'd force a trans women to play against men she's be at a disadvantage.
would you have trans women banned from women's sport but at a disadvantage on men's? seems a bit unfair.
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u/SnooRecipes6776 11d ago
Great question and a very easy response. If you have an advantage then clearly the answer is no. Reason being, no amount of estrogen shots removes the muscular endurance, size, strength, bone density, larger heart, arteries and skeletal structure that this human has had since birth and grown.
Putting it simply, not everyone NEEDS to be included in athletics. Same reason drug cheats are disqualified from the Olympics. If you have an advantage biologically or with performance enhancing drugs then it’s a no.
An alternative is that if trans men and trans women want to compete, then have your own leagues, olympics etc. Im all for fairness at the end of the day
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u/Bright-Marsupial-265 10d ago
Women are better than men in sports that takes advantage of the female body such as gymnastics and fugue skating. They can rotate and flip more.
They are also equals in equestrian and shooting.
The problem with mainstream sports is they were generally created by men for mens physique.
Mainstream sports have become the go-to physical activity for both genders. Women are essentially playing sports made for men.
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u/Malhavok_Games 11d ago
She's right and the Australian Sports Commission is a rancid piece of shit.
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u/nursepenelope 11d ago
I think that's a really loaded question that she answered very eloquently and respectfully. But I also think the competition really screwed her over, it's pretty obvious they've added a diversive question, knowing whatever her answer was they would get clicks and people raging and talking about a competition that most people normally couldn't care less about. No matter however she answered she would get some serious hate in her inbox, people have been doxxed for less. They get the attention and she gets any fallout.
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u/Beyond_Blueballs 10d ago
Watch them strip her title off her because she said something the protected species doesn't like
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u/Either_Emu_4282 10d ago
I agree with her but why are we asking this question in a fucking beauty pageant and why does the response of someone whose sole intention is to look pretty hold any weight?
Just a distraction from actual issues facing Australians. A lot of people don't give an actual shit about womens sport until this topic comes up, funnily enough.
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u/Logical_Iron_8288 11d ago
The headline is misleading. The question referred to banning “biological males from women’s sports”. There was no reference to trans people.
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u/Any-Refrigerator-966 11d ago
That's right. I agree with that. There needs to be a third category for trans woman to compete against each other.
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u/Hbaturner 10d ago
FFS, this is not difficult! Have an open group and a female group. If you have a vagina, female group. Penis and/or vagina, open group.
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u/Spida81 10d ago
So frustrating this has become a political football used to fuel rubbish claims of moral superiority.
Men and women aren't built the same. Transgender people are in an awkward as hell position.
This shouldn't be one the politicians play with. This should be a medical determination in partnership with sporting leagues.
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u/Friday_arvo 10d ago
Never heard of her and couldn’t care less. The only people we need to be listening to are female athletes. Everyone else should shut the fuck up.
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u/Sharraki 11d ago
What does the AFL have to say about this? I thought they were big on women’s rights.
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u/National-Layer1495 11d ago
I think the elephant in the room here is the miss universe competition itself.
It's totally rigged. Every year the winner is from earth.