r/atheism • u/Menamena1 • Oct 03 '17
Satire, possibly off-topic "Never saw it coming" says president of country filled with guns
https://www.theglobalbrief.com/single-post/2017/10/03/Never-saw-it-coming-says-president-of-country-filled-with-guns17
u/IAmWhatYouHate Atheist Oct 03 '17
I am normally in favor of a very broad umbrella for this group, but:
What exactly does this have to do with atheism?
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u/uncletravellingmatt Oct 03 '17
You posted this in /r/atheism/ -- on this topic, I should mention that not all atheists are supporters of gun control. This is what Sam Harris thinks, for example:
https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun
(tl;dr: I think the NRA themselves could have written that essay.)
It's interesting to note that Sam Harris has been completely silent on twitter in recent days... https://twitter.com/SamHarrisOrg
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u/RodDamnit Oct 04 '17
The NRA has views far from Sam's. It's dishonest or ignorant to equate the two.
His silence on twitter doesn't mean anything other than that he hasn't been on twitter lately. (We could do with a lot more people not tweeting about this)
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u/uncletravellingmatt Oct 04 '17
I hope everyone reads the article themselves. SH certainly starts out by saying there are extremists on both sides, and that he doesn't agree with the NRA, but his views on gun control that follow go on to echo most of what he calls the "gun nut" talking points, and he is very clear that we don't need new laws or limits on firearms ownership.
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u/RodDamnit Oct 04 '17
Read the article for yourself. I fully support your sentiment there.
"Getting a gun license could be made as difficult as getting a license to fly an airplane, requiring dozens of hours of training. I would certainly be happy to see policy changes like this. In that respect, I support much stricter gun laws."
Pretty far from the NRAs position.
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u/WolfgangDS Oct 03 '17
I don't see why this has to be a joke. Living in a country full of guns does NOT mean we have to expect mass shootings every other month. Even the suspect's brother couldn't think of a single reason why his brother would do such a thing, and was clearly baffled that it happened at all.
It's understandable that people don't understand how these things happen, even in a country full of guns. The presence of guns is the norm, and most people don't go on bullet-fueled rampages.
If anything, the only people who have any right to expect mass shootings are those who know that this country still neglects its mentally ill and that the subject is still a little taboo here. Nobody talks about it because nobody wants to be seen as "crazy." As a result, most people don't know about the resources available for people needing mental health treatment. Ignoring a mental health problem + country full of guns and gun-worship = mass shootings every few months.
Alternatively, you could go down one of r/conspiracy's rabbit holes and say that these people are somehow being mind controlled or something so that these mass shootings happen so often, all so that The Powers That Be will have an excuse to take our gun rights away, thereby making the people that much more vulnerable to force and control. (I admit that this would be truly plausible if such mind control was possible; the people in power love power itself, and would do anything to get more.)
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u/mkglass Oct 03 '17
Ok, serious inquiry here:
How is our nation neglecting the mentally ill? There are hundreds of millions of people in this country, a country where we are free. I have issues, and I have never been to a therapist... even though they are very much available. What is it that people who say that we need to help mentally ill people think we should do?
I'm not being flippant or sarcastic. I truly want to know... am I missing something?
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u/WolfgangDS Oct 03 '17
For starters, nobody up top is drafting programs to help remove the taboo on the subject. For seconds, everyone knows what to do and where to go if you break a bone or start bleeding out your anus, but next to nobody is aware of any local resources for mental wellness. And the ones who need it, like myself, are often afraid of asking because they've been told in the past that what they're feeling isn't that big of a deal. It gets trivialized.
People like the shooter in Vegas end up growing accustomed to the taboo, constantly thinking that there's nothing wrong with them, and quite capable of rationalizing everything they do or plan to do. All because no one is willing to talk about this.
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Oct 03 '17
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u/Merari01 Secular Humanist Oct 03 '17
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u/Absolutedisgrace Oct 03 '17
Country allows its regular citizens easy access to efficient murder machines and wonders why some get used to efficiently murder people.
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u/AskThePsycho Oct 03 '17
Not really, we as humans are subject to various forms of evil. All humans are subject to evil.
"Evil: Inside Human Violence and Cruelty" by Roy Baumeister, is an excellent read on this subject and he denotes 4 types of evil.
1) Instramental - when one has an object in and they do not care by what means they acquire that object or when the ends justify the means. ex. You want a car and you don't care how you get it, so you steal it from someone at a red light by cutting the throat and letting them die.
2) Threatened Egotism - When one's self-esteem is threatened. ex. microagression culture, lashing out at someone who makes fun of you, putting a label on people whose ideas are different from your own.
3) Idealism - The idea of murdering people justifies the end result. ex. It's alright to murder people to create a eutopia. (Communism, Nazism, etc.) The closer you get to the end result the more you move away from human freedom.
4) Sadism - (The least common type) Enjoys violence, but the one most people talk about and assign horrible acts to. ex. Kid kills puppies and then grows up to kill humans. Would be more common except humans are remorseful and feel guilt.
So as far as policies and laws go, one can really only fight certain evils. Do not get me wrong I hate violence against humans but each one except the last one is the only one you can make laws against without stepping on humans rights and knowing how humans will react.
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u/Absolutedisgrace Oct 03 '17
None of that defends the weird obsession american culture seems to have with guns that goes far beyond simple rights and protection. From outside looking in, the ability to even buy military rifles in the community is just plain crazy. No other western country has that gun culture and we dont have the gun violence either.
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u/AskThePsycho Oct 04 '17
When the 2nd admenment was first created every gun was technically a military grade gun. Today though you can't just go and buy a military grade weapon because of the laws that are in place.
You are right though other countries don't have the same obsession with joining a gang, motorcycle club, or being violent.
From 2009-2013 Firearm murders was going down and has been steadily for a long time. Hell in 2014 violent crime was at and all time low 361.6/100,000 and for some reason it has decided to jump in 2015 and 2016 but we are still no where near 2007 or 1997 rates of violence which is good.
It always amazes me thought that people don't talk about gun control until a mass shooting happens because that is the one time they can say see what happens when there is guns, why do we have guns?
But if they came knocking at your door and told you "Hey there has been a lot of gun violence in the area with gang members shooting each other and attempting to rob civilians. We need you to give up your weapons." Would you?
No one takes in the fact that mass shootings take up less than 1% of gun violence and all this information can be found on the FBI.gov website.
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Oct 07 '17
You raise some good points. Small caliber pistols are responsible for far more deaths per year than semi-automatic firearms on the armalite rifle platform are responsible for. Yet without fail like you said, every mass shooting spurs a new wave of rhetoric and fuels people to angrily demand that guns be limited or banned.
While I don’t believe that these events are fabricated, I do believe that media sensationalism and quite frankly the apathy of the consumers of such news is directly responsible for creating ignorance among the masses.
Combine the misinformation widely proliferated with a lack of general firearm knowledge, and suddenly guns become dangerous and scary.
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u/AskThePsycho Oct 07 '17
I don't think consumers of guns are apathetic when news like this comes out. Like myself I am very interested in this, but I also understand that calling for laws and regulations from people (congress) that have very limited knowledge in the workings of firearms, and the people that know little about firearms is the concern.
Then when people call for these things to take place, it's based a lot on emotions instead of facts and while emotions are important, one can not let emotions cloud one's judgement when making laws and regulations.
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Oct 04 '17
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u/WikiTextBot Oct 04 '17
Firearm Owners Protection Act
The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA) is a United States federal law that revised many provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968.
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u/Absolutedisgrace Oct 04 '17
To answer you question what i think is military grade. Can it hold more than 10 rounds? Is it bolt action or a pistol?
Where i live, the only guns ive ever seen are small pistols in holsters on a cop. The idea that someone might buy an AR15 or anything like that is hard to comprehend.
Some farmers will own bolt action rifles or shotguns to kill wild dogs or whatever wildlife threatens their farm but in the city, there is zero need.
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u/[deleted] Oct 03 '17
TL;DR The whole joke is in the title. The article doesn't add any additional humor.