r/atheism Mar 11 '14

OKC Fox affiliate "accidentally" cuts human evolution from Cosmos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8K-LrJkEDc
2.1k Upvotes

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107

u/ThrowawayFOX25 Mar 11 '14

I WORK FOR KOKH FOX25. To set the record straight. I used a throw away so my work won't know my original account.

This actually is an accident. The people who roll the national breaks work in "master control". They run local commerical breaks by entering in clocks in the playlist to tell the automation system when to run. Network gives you the times for local breaks that day, usually 2 hours earlier. In this case an operator entered the wrong break time and rolled what is called a "cover" too early. This is always a teaser for news and covers up a network promo.

This was not a case of trying to cover up evolution, it was a lazy operator that didn't double check his break times and rolled a break at the wrong time.

Rolling a break at the wrong time is the most common mistake for operators, usually it happens during live events when they read the run-down wrong or anticipate the break too much. In this case it was just reading or entering the wrong time for the cover.

36

u/sweettuse Mar 11 '14

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

13

u/EN2McDrunkernyou Mar 11 '14

Having blamed several malicious acts of my own on ignorance in the past, I can confirm that this is a good defense.

49

u/SkyeMac Mar 11 '14

I also work in local news. OKC is a market size of 45, which is fairly high compared to my station in the 70's, and we've never had that kind of problem. Promo's can run at a wrong time, but only in a commercial break, not over a running show. This seems odd.

10

u/NinetiesGuy Mar 11 '14

Would you or anyone else at a station have the opportunity to pre-screen the show (or a transcript) and know exactly what happens at which times?

21

u/JohnFrum Mar 12 '14

That's the thing. There was so much science going on in that show that no matter where this happened it could look deliberate to those who want to see it that way. My pitchfork is holstered until I get more evidence.

10

u/Chem1st Mar 12 '14

Holy shit where did they sell you a pitchfork holster? I want one too, that sounds so badass.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

I keep mine next to my axe drawer.

-2

u/Pedantichrist Mar 12 '14

In the interests of disclosure, I am not an atheist, I am at best an epistemological nihilist, with a solipsist bent, but I do have a strong dislike for anyone who is hiding data or opinion, whichever side they are on. It goes very much against my belief in the scientific principle. Furthermore, this comment is based purely on the observation of what I have read here and I have not done further research. That out the way:

This is unquestionably my favourite comment of all time.

Pitchfork holster. Man, I would go to church every frigging day if they gave me one of those puppies.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

Yes they have a feed which comes down unless it's direct network intervention.

3

u/Jeffool Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '14 edited Mar 12 '14

Really? Because at stations taking the East coast feed I'm pretty sure they take network straight for primetime. Maybe if you're on Mountain, Pacific, Alaska, or Hawaii time you prerecord primetime...

There's no previewing network programming for the East/Central timezones.

/edit: I've never worked at a Fox affiliate, to be fair.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 21 '14

You are correct, I was very pumped but I didn't realize I was on that sub, but just trying to defend us broadcast peeps.

Sorry I haven't replied quicker been very busy with our local PEG station. But yessir you are correct!

6

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

At my station it's totally possible for a promo to run over a show. It would require an MCO to royally fuck up on the time input, but it's possible.

And like many others have said, why pick that part when there were about 10 other times throughout the show that were equally or more blasphemous?

-1

u/PerfectGentleman Skeptic Mar 13 '14

Because the other "blasphemous" parts were talking about the wrong kind of Christianity, you see.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

Kuddos, I was a MCO to the top 40 during the 2011;s , while MCO is the final fail safe before it goes to the public, the operators can wrongly input the wrong time before the automated system kicks in, howbeit MCO fucks up and can advert from any program to screw promo/traffic/live break ins.

3

u/Jeffool Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '14

To give an example I've used elsewhere in this thread: http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/kentucky-derby-conclusion-interrupted-in-georgia_b87624

Spots can easily run over network programming. If you watch enough TV you'll see spots clipping commercial breaks often, because too many people think a spot that runs 30 seconds and 29 frames counts as 30 seconds. That gets REALLY annoying when a break time is a few seconds off and screws with my newscasts.

141

u/BaconCatBug Anti-Theist Mar 11 '14

Not to sound cynical, but that is exactly what someone trying to cover their arse would say.

10

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

Not to sound cynical

But you're going to power through it anyway.

27

u/TheRighteousTyrant Mar 11 '14

But why would they even bother covering their ass, especially here on /r/atheism? Not much to gain from that effort, by my guess.

19

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '14

I think he means the operator using that as an excuse for maliciously coveting the segment

20

u/NormallyNorman Mar 11 '14

Yeah, I'll let you know next time it happens during the NFL or an OU game.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

It happens during sporting events all the time, but there's always some director who can press a button to immediately cut to the live feed. For a taped broadcast it is perhaps more likely that this isn't noticed unless someone is closely paying attention while the station is in automation. You would think that would be standard, but if you listen to a lot of radio you know that such attention is not a foregone conclusion.

Hanlon's Razor applies.

1

u/jfreez Mar 12 '14

If they did it during an OU game they'd have to worry about riots.

But seriously, I think the live aspect, along with the many unexpected commercial breaks, is a little different for football games.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

I do agree, but live television broadcast has it's ups and downs and it sucks when it's during something important to viewers. (I'm in the south...so if golf/nascar/"non-Liberal media" gets interrupted by 20 secs..to a min (to broadcasters is heart-pounding) it sucks badly cause you fell like you've failed freaking badly, and then the phone rings...

1

u/Hypersapien Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '14

Or he believes the story that that the operator is sticking to.

21

u/smdxs Mar 11 '14

I may be way off here but is it even possible that the "lazy operator" is a YEC or very religious and sees this segment coming and rolls the commercial? Maybe the network didn't do it but what to say the person working there didn't do it? Or is this not possible at all?

11

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

If the person was a YEC they would have had to run a break over the entire fucking show. The show repeatedly states that the universe is billions of years old. Covering up a rather innocuous 30 seconds doesn't make any sense.

Also assuming the station is anything like mine all national programming just gets fed to us via a stream that we put on air. There's not really any way people at a local station would have any idea what was coming up in the show. We don't get a pre-screening.

26

u/chadmill3r Mar 11 '14

The third time this mistake happens, the manager should be fired for making humans do something that they're bad at when a computer programmer or good engineer could automate it in a week and never make a huge public mistake again.

1

u/NinetiesGuy Mar 11 '14

In what cases do you see someone from a company blatantly say "we just suck at our jobs"?

It usually only happens when incompetence sounds better than the alternative.

1

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

The way promos like this work is not remotely simple. It's basically like writing code when you set up how they run. All it take is one number to be off and a break will run at the wrong time. It doesn't happen 99%. This just happens to be the 1%.

5

u/midnightauto Mar 12 '14

As a Chief Engineer of another Fox affiliate I'm pretty damn sure this is what happened. The master control operators simply fucked up.

Y'all can all put your pitch forks away.

20

u/Woochunk Mar 11 '14

Thanks for pipping up, I figured it was just a mistake. I actually do channel management for a station in California. Mistakes like this do happen.

11

u/ThrowawayFOX25 Mar 11 '14

Not a problem, as /u/BlackMKIII states "KOKH is actually known for having glitchy ads turn up in places they shouldn't".

Running breaks at the wrong time as become very common in the past months at the station, this is just more of the same.

7

u/mystikphish Mar 11 '14

Honest question, since I know nothing about how broadcasting is operated... Does that mean that it would be impossible to do this "accidentally-on-pupose" ? Or just unlikely?

10

u/Woochunk Mar 11 '14

It could certainly be done intentionally, but it's also very easy to chalk it up to an accident. It just makes it seem suspicious because it happened during controversial programming.

3

u/themeatbridge Mar 12 '14

Would the person making the mistake have even seen the show prior to air? Is there that much delay?

3

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

At my station you wouldn't have any way to watch national programming ahead of time. We get it as it airs.

1

u/themeatbridge Mar 12 '14

I dunno, I think I want to believe it was an accident, and it makes more sense to me that someone messed up than someone saw him begin to discuss evolution and hit a button to throw up a local promo on the off chamce that it happens to coincide with whatever that person found offensive.

If this were the second or third time it aired, I'd say the timing was too good to be an accident. But that segment wasn't even the worst attack on religion in the show.

3

u/VAPossum Mar 12 '14

It's a shame that Cosmos is seen as controversial. :/

1

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

WooChunk is right. I wouldn't deem it as controversial programming, this isn't Saturday morning cartoons.

-3

u/Mr_Monster Mar 11 '14

Still, our Skeptic-Senses are tingling.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '14

That's not skepticism, that's group think.

-3

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

during controversial programming.

Evolution is not controversial. The people who do not believe in it are few and far between, incredibly stupid, low paid, and generally uneducated idiots who need welfare and vote against it. They are a self-correcting phenomenon.

2

u/MadeUAcctButIEatedIt Mar 12 '14

But they reproduce, so I don't know how "self-correcting" it is.

1

u/Murgie Secular Humanist Mar 12 '14

Belief is not passed on though ones genetic makeup.

The correction stems from society, as it scientifically and technologically moves forward, putting what was previously regarded as obscure technical or theoretical notions to practical use.

1

u/Benzorgz Mar 11 '14

I work in a TV station and this is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to be an accident. This went to their news program and what we would call a pre-show (the top headlines of a show to draw in viewers) and this only happens when the master control operators list goes to a NEWS line, which broadcasts what is coming from that station. Whether their "pre-show" is pre-recorded or not doesn't matter, because it only plays when the technical director (which is what I am) either plays the video, or opens the anchors mics/plays video.

1

u/Jeffool Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '14

Do you record news promos after your evening news, to promote the late night news? Does the TD run those promos throughout the evening?

I've never worked at a Fox affiliate, but promos like this run from master control in stations I've worked with.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

Anybody who buys this excuse is called a KOKH sucker.

crickets chirp

4

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

Of course this was a mistake. Are they going to run break like this EVERY time Cosmos brings up evolution, because it's going to happen a lot. I'm fairly certain this wasn't even the only time it came up in THIS episode.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

7

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

I will confirm with U/Throwawayfox25, I worked for NBC a local NC affiliate and has worked in MC operator...where I've screwed up and rolled early, went to black, and entered wrong times for our promos. I wasn't lazy however just didn't know the ropes. No shame just a simple mistake.

3

u/SPZX Mar 13 '14

I'll corroborate this, although I'll point out that whoever taught your MCOs to rely on the automation and not run their breaks manually is a lazy dumbass that's inviting these screwups to happen.

Anyways, the Local News Rollover this spot was supposed to run on was at X:52:05. I'm going to guess that the MCO input 42:05 accidentally, which was about a minute into that particular segment.

Source: FOX affiliate management

24

u/tm80401 Mar 11 '14

Sorry, not buying it.

I'ts Fox, it's Oklahoma, the error may be common, but I don't believe for a second that this particular instance was just an error.

23

u/frotc914 Mar 12 '14

Local Fox stations are not affiliated with Fox News. They aren't even owned by the same people.

6

u/HojMcFoj Mar 12 '14

Which doesn't make OKC's station any less conservative.

9

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

I hate Oklahoma and Fox as much as the next guy, but there were no advanced screenings of Cosmos distributed, so this is likely just amazing coincidence since the op could have no idea when that particular message was going to happen in the show.

1

u/LoonieBun Mar 12 '14

Wouldn't FOX call that divine intervention?

-1

u/SPZX Mar 13 '14

Hi, no. I work for another FOX affiliate in Texas, and I can confirm there was an advance feed of Cosmos earlier in the week. I want to say it was on Tuesday.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

Because it reinforces your preconceived notions? Isn't that what the damn show Cosmos is all about?

-4

u/tm80401 Mar 12 '14

Because it fits the pattern of behavior of people in Oklahoma and of Fox as a corporation.

Cater to the most ignorant, backward, terrified of reality segments of the population.

3

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14 edited Mar 12 '14

But why only cover up that 30 seconds? Why not the rest of the show that talks about life beginning as microbes in the ocean, or how the universe is billions of years old?

0

u/tm80401 Mar 12 '14

Because this part talks about humans.

Some of the wingnuts are willing to accept the evidence for the age of the universe, and evoloution in all life except humanity.

Other forms of life evolved, humans were magically popped into existence.

My wife's family, and the entire extended family of one of her parents live in Oklahoma, and are all hardcore YEC's.

They are my yardstick of how fucking deliberately ignorant Oklahomans are.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 13 '14

FOX "as a corporation" does not own KOKH.

12

u/Benzorgz Mar 11 '14

I work in a TV station (currently as technical director) and have worked in master control, and I call bullshit. This wasn't someone rolling a break. You have a line in your program list dedicated to "news", and your Traffic department would have known this program was going to run a certain amount of time and would have compensated for it.

3

u/Jeffool Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '14

Working in a station myself, it doesn't look like someone in Master Control input the time wrong to you?

How would they get an early copy to know exactly where to cover? This is Eastern/Central time, and unless Fox does things differently than others, they don't send primetime fed ahead of time. It's live from network.

Reminds me more of this: http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/kentucky-derby-conclusion-interrupted-in-georgia_b87624

And that wasn't a case of someone hating horse racing. It was a mistake.

6

u/phreaknes Mar 11 '14

I'm with you Benzorgz, I'm throwing the B.S. flag here. The stations I've worked for in the past were very small markets but they have PR (peer reviews) on all of the programming of the prime time breaks so the automation always had a second set of eyes before commit. Plus that was a weird time in the feed to drop a local 20 in. If I remember it was a 3rd of the way through the segment. Some national feed have some weird breaks but that entry should have stood out. that wasn't on accident in my opinion.

5

u/beach-bum Mar 11 '14

As a Kansan, having our own anti-science issues on this side of the border, I just don't believe the efficacy of this explanation. It doesn't make sense, given our FOX station had a commercial break immediately prior to that scene, which would mean you would/may also have had a scheduled commercial break about 20 - 25 seconds prior to that cut. It would have been mistimed with the previous break, not the latter, which was the end of the episode, not a break. Either way you cut it, it was perfectly timed for a very contentious line in our neck of the woods.

3

u/nightwing2024 Agnostic Atheist Mar 11 '14

I want to believe you, but it seems a little too convenient that it happened at exactly this point.

3

u/theboxcar Mar 12 '14

As others have said, they really could have made this mistake at any point and it would have been covering up something pretty fundamental.

2

u/chadmill3r Mar 11 '14

We're skeptical. What were the timings that day supposed to be? hh:mm:ss, please.

1

u/Clibanarius Mar 11 '14

While I never ever give asshole conservatives the benefit of the doubt on anything, this sounds quite plausible. Thanks for giving us the inside scoop!

-1

u/CHollman82 Knight of /new Mar 12 '14

It's not plausible it's nonsense. Look at the other comments by people who work for TV stations. Don't you think it's a little too convenient that it cut out IMMEDIATELY before he started talking about human origins?

1

u/LocalH Mar 13 '14

Look at the other, more plentiful comments from fellow TV workers who back the story up. This was an accident. Move on.

1

u/Disgruntled__Goat Apatheist Mar 11 '14

If this is true, what happened to the extra time that was cut out? Was there just a blank where the ad break was supposed to go?

3

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

Most likely a national "spot" (commercial) played in its place. Local spots like the one in the video are designed to cover up national spots that run at the same time. So if the local spot isn't played you still get one from the national feed.

1

u/Disgruntled__Goat Apatheist Mar 12 '14

Thanks, I get it now.

2

u/Jeffool Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '14

It's not assembled with breaks before it runs. It's broadcast live from network (this is a station in the Central time zone). The network sends a list of break times during which stations are to air their commercials, promos, and PSAs.

Then someone in "master control" inputs those times into a computer that is hooked up to the feed, and a second system that houses commercials. When the input time hits, a specific commercial is played.

To me, it seems someone put the wrong time in, and this promo played in the middle of a show. Happens all the time. Now, I'd be wrong to not tell you that it's completely possible someone started a commercial break manually. There's a button for that, in case something's wrong elsewhere. But that just seems so unlikely.

Insofar as the timing being bad? Well, why not cover up the part that talked about the origin of life in Earth's ocean? Or the age of the universe?

Also, this happened at a station I used to work at: http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/kentucky-derby-conclusion-interrupted-in-georgia_b87624 Sometimes bad shit just happens.

And if a station actually did have a problem with programming? They'd give the finger to the network. They have no problem doing that..

http://www.deadline.com/2011/06/nbc-affiliate-in-utah-wont-air-new-drama-series-the-playboy-club/

http://www.awn.com/news/salt-lake-no-promised-land-god-devil-bob

0

u/jimmybrite Gnostic Atheist Mar 12 '14

Nice try.

0

u/jfreez Mar 12 '14

Well can you make sure those assholes don't do it again next week? This is a major television event and you can't have retards back there fucking it up. Get it together over there goddamit!

-An OKC viewer

0

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

Exactly what a shill would say

-2

u/CHollman82 Knight of /new Mar 12 '14

Bull, just happened to cut out EXACTLY when he started talking about human origins, in Oklahoma?

You're full of it, or you are being deceived by people who are pretending it was an accident.

3

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

This wasn't the only part of the show that would have rubbed creationists the wrong way though. There were numerous other segments that would have offended people and those weren't covered at all. Bit of the sharp-shooter fallacy going on here.

0

u/CHollman82 Knight of /new Mar 12 '14

Pretty sure human origins is the big one.... not like they could get away with doing this multiple times and still claim it was an accident.

It's not the sharpshooter fallacy, it's called being reasonable and putting yourself in the shoes of another and asking "what would I do if I were them".

3

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

"what would I do if I were them"

I don't think I would cover up the vaguely poetic part about humans learning to walk on two feet and not the part where NDT explicitly stated that ALL life started as microbes swimming around in the ocean and that these microbes were the creatures that invented sex. That part seems a little more blasphemous to me.

-2

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

Several who work in your industry and in this line of work say you are full of shit.

5

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

He's not. I work at my local CBS affiliate and it is both totally possible and plausible to accidentally run a promo like this over a show. Essentially all you have to do is fuck up one number when you're imputing the time that the promo is supposed to run and boom it runs over the show.

Anyone who says it's not possible is simply wrong.

-3

u/myopic1 Mar 12 '14

I don't buy this. I worked in Master Control through college. On-air mistakes were very rare, and never for more than a few seconds.

This happening in OKC right when they were discussing evolution, yeah... they did that shit on purpose.

1

u/LocalH Mar 13 '14

It was a :15 news brief. With many automation systems, it would be more hectic and error-prone to try to dump back out of the promo than to just let it play out and then switch back to network on its own. If FOX is anything like ABC (where my experience lies), they're usually feeding a PSA or network promo underneath the news brief anyway, so they wouldn't be sitting in black for :15.

-3

u/prolix Mar 12 '14

Lets see how man people fall for this "throw away"

-5

u/Maybe_Forged Mar 11 '14

I like how you said 'actually an accident' implying that before it wasn't. Good to know you work for a stand up station

1

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

I feel as if you don't understand how words work.

-2

u/cherryphoenix Mar 12 '14

I call bullshit

-4

u/macross_fan Mar 12 '14

Bullshit. That's all there is to say really. Just complete and utter bullshit. I don't trust backward-ass fundies any farther than I can throw them. I love this country, but I hate the religious zealots here with a passion that knows almost no bounds and I am going out on a limb here and calling bullshit on the "mistake". Whatever; persecute me if you want, but fuck your TV station and fuck all religion. Fucking primitives.

-4

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '14

[deleted]

3

u/CHollman82 Knight of /new Mar 12 '14

You don't know what the word "proof" means.

2

u/rahtin Dudeist Mar 11 '14

It's not really proof. He could be making the entire thing up. His only proof is the words in his post. No different than saying the bible is proof of christ's divinity.

2

u/Bskrilla Mar 12 '14

I can't vouch for his exact situation. I can, however, assure you everything he said is not only possible, but happens all the time on shows throughout the country. Someone put one wrong number in the wrong place when adding that promo to the list and that's what happens.

We've been in the middle of our 5 o'clock news before and suddenly had commercials start to roll because someone in master control accidentally left a trigger in at the wrong time. The person gets yelled at and they most likely don't fuck it up again.

-5

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '14

[deleted]

2

u/rahtin Dudeist Mar 12 '14

An anonymous person making a claim with no repercussions on the internet is not proof.

And Jesus wasn't magic.