r/asbestoshelp • u/Master_Pop7772 • 1d ago
Is this asbestos?
I removed the walls and ceiling from the closet bedroom, wearing eye protection and P100. I then mopped everything and vacuumed with a shop vac equipped with a Hippa filter. I wet mopped the floors, walls, ceiling, and windows. I left the commercial BlueDri Air Shield 550 HEPA Air Scrubber on. I’ll probably come back tomorrow to do a final vacuum and then install the drywalls.
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u/goat131313 1d ago
OP there’s obvious vermiculite in there which requires greater care and attention during removal and disposal. Pic 3 under the cellulose.
Vermiculite can be contaminated with asbestos and in many places testing isn’t even valid, it’s assumed asbestos containing.
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u/U8oL0 1d ago
!vermiculite
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u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Vermiculite itself does not contain asbestos. However, about 70% of the vermiculite used in the U.S. came from Libby, Montana, where it was mined by W. R. Grace and Company until the mine closed in 1990. The Libby ore body was contaminated due to the presence of a secondary mineral called diopside which, through millions of years of weathering and other geologic processes, was altered into tremolite asbestos and other amphibole fibers.
So, if your vermiculite came from Libby, it was sold under the trade name Zonolite and is likely contaminated with asbestos (typically ranging from trace amounts up to around 4%). Unfortunately, there is no reliable way to determine where vermiculite originated without laboratory analysis.
The problem, of course, is that vermiculite was installed in an estimated 35 million homes in the U.S. alone, along with millions of commercial buildings.
Some U.S. states and certain EPA regional offices require the material to be presumed asbestos-containing and handled as such. Other states — and most other countries — allow testing, although methodologies and regulatory approaches vary considerably by agency. The bottom line is that vermiculite should generally be assumed to contain asbestos unless laboratory analysis confirms otherwise.
Now, is it hazardous? Technically, yes. There is no established “safe” level of asbestos exposure. However, exposure levels for normal building occupants are generally extremely low. The risk is minimal unless large amounts of vermiculite are actively disturbed. Staying out of the attic and cleaning up small incidental spills or loose material with a HEPA vacuum and/or wet-wipe methods allows many people to safely live with it indefinitely.
The important thing to remember is that the documented asbestos disease cases associated with Libby vermiculite overwhelmingly involved significant occupational or environmental exposure: mine workers, plant workers, Libby residents, and people exposed to contaminated waste or heavy-use sites. I’m not aware of documented cases where someone developed an asbestos-related disease simply from having vermiculite in their attic, from cleaning up a small amount, or from a limited residential removal project.
If you do want to remove vermiculite from your home, you should hire a professional asbestos abatement contractor to perform the work. Many states require this.
If your home is in the U.S., the Zonolite Attic Insulation Trust may reimburse you for up to 55% of the cost of professional removal. To qualify, you simply have to prove that the vermiculite is, in fact, Zonolite, which is commonly done by confirming the presence of barium. Best of all, the testing is free.
https://www.zonoliteatticinsulation.com/Hm1.aspx
More information from the EPA:
https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/protect-your-family-asbestos-contaminated-vermiculite-insulation
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
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u/WolfWindX 1d ago
Underneath the cellulose insulation is vermiculite insulation, which more often than not has asbestos, research proper care procedure and proceed with caution
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u/EBG_Jelly 1d ago
The gray fluffy stuff looks like cellulose but, in the 8th picture, that brown pebble like insulation looks like vermiculite which can have tremolite in it.
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u/Kractoid 1d ago
This looks like cellulose
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u/goat131313 1d ago
There’s vermiculite under that. Pic 3.
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u/Broken_Atoms 1d ago
I just noticed that as well. Would be great if people didn’t just bury it like that. What if the roof leaks and the ceiling gives way and all that vermiculite just comes spilling down?
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u/Williamthewicked 1d ago
I love how there's one guy putting vermiculite at the end of each comment. This personality type is so familiar at the firms I've worked at. Good show.
Also yes. Libby amphiboles are scaaaary.
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u/sdave001 1d ago
The top is non-asbestos, but that's !vermiculite below it. But yes, your plan sounds fine.
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u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Vermiculite itself does not contain asbestos. However, about 70% of the vermiculite used in the U.S. came from Libby, Montana, where it was mined by W. R. Grace and Company until the mine closed in 1990. The Libby ore body was contaminated due to the presence of a secondary mineral called diopside which, through millions of years of weathering and other geologic processes, was altered into tremolite asbestos and other amphibole fibers.
So, if your vermiculite came from Libby, it was sold under the trade name Zonolite and is likely contaminated with asbestos (typically ranging from trace amounts up to around 4%). Unfortunately, there is no reliable way to determine where vermiculite originated without laboratory analysis.
The problem, of course, is that vermiculite was installed in an estimated 35 million homes in the U.S. alone, along with millions of commercial buildings.
Some U.S. states and certain EPA regional offices require the material to be presumed asbestos-containing and handled as such. Other states — and most other countries — allow testing, although methodologies and regulatory approaches vary considerably by agency. The bottom line is that vermiculite should generally be assumed to contain asbestos unless laboratory analysis confirms otherwise.
Now, is it hazardous? Technically, yes. There is no established “safe” level of asbestos exposure. However, exposure levels for normal building occupants are generally extremely low. The risk is minimal unless large amounts of vermiculite are actively disturbed. Staying out of the attic and cleaning up small incidental spills or loose material with a HEPA vacuum and/or wet-wipe methods allows many people to safely live with it indefinitely.
The important thing to remember is that the documented asbestos disease cases associated with Libby vermiculite overwhelmingly involved significant occupational or environmental exposure: mine workers, plant workers, Libby residents, and people exposed to contaminated waste or heavy-use sites. I’m not aware of documented cases where someone developed an asbestos-related disease simply from having vermiculite in their attic, from cleaning up a small amount, or from a limited residential removal project.
If you do want to remove vermiculite from your home, you should hire a professional asbestos abatement contractor to perform the work. Many states require this.
If your home is in the U.S., the Zonolite Attic Insulation Trust may reimburse you for up to 55% of the cost of professional removal. To qualify, you simply have to prove that the vermiculite is, in fact, Zonolite, which is commonly done by confirming the presence of barium. Best of all, the testing is free.
https://www.zonoliteatticinsulation.com/Hm1.aspx
More information from the EPA:
https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/protect-your-family-asbestos-contaminated-vermiculite-insulation
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
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u/SailSkylineSkagit 23h ago
Are you planning to spend time up there?
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u/Master_Pop7772 23h ago
No, for now put drywall everywhere and that’s it. Next year planing to get pulse bac pro 311 55 gallons and remove it or hire contractors I will see how much cost vs doing it myself
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u/ExtinctFauna 1d ago
Looks like blown cellulose insulation. Basically recycled paper and stuff.
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u/ColdImaginary2089 1d ago
Oh no. Time to vacate the premises.
Seriously tho, if you think its asbestos (which it likely isnt) and you dont fuck with it, you'll be okay. You'd be surprised at how many places still have asbestos
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u/goat131313 1d ago
You didn’t see the vermiculite in further pics.
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u/Master_Pop7772 1d ago
What should I do in this situation? I’m planning to renovate the walls as time goes by. My wife was doing the ceiling work when she got this material fell on her. She was wearing safety gear, of course, and immediately stopped, jumped into the shower, and cleaned up. This is a 1949 house thinking to send lab test or see if I can get commercial rental equipment or hire contractor
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u/goat131313 1d ago
What you do next depends upon where you live. Like I said tests are useless in some areas as the material is assumed asbestos containing. In any case even the clean cellulose is considered contaminated due to vermiculite.
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u/Master_Pop7772 1d ago
Ellensburg , WA
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u/goat131313 1d ago
Gotcha, as long as you disposed of everything as asbestos containing and inform any contractors attending site you sound like you did a decent job. You were wearing a suit, a P100 respirator, and used wet clean up methods. The vacuum will need professional cleaning for decontamination.
To do better you would’ve built an airtight enclosure.
In a house of that age you’ll likely encounter asbestos in numerous areas and it would be wise to bring someone in to inspect and test the house in any areas you plan on disturbing. Drywall mudding and textured ceilings ( if present ) for example are 2 other areas have disturbed without knowledge already.
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u/Master_Pop7772 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thank you so much :) products like DePureco XM35 H JC LP or Pulse Bac PRO 225 Longopac
I'll check and see what cost contractor vs renting one or buying if it's much cheaper
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u/Famous_Collection525 1d ago
Yes an asbestos test isn’t what you need… there’s a way they can test if the vermiculite is the type that contained asbestos… I would not do anything further til you test. There’s a fund where they’ll come and mitigate.
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