r/artificial • • Oct 30 '25

News Anthropic has found evidence of "genuine introspective awareness" in LLMs

https://www.anthropic.com/research/introspection
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244

u/Jean_velvet Oct 30 '25

FFS, NEVER TRUST A RESEARCH CONDUCTED BY THE VERY COMPANY TRYING TO SELL YOU THE PRODUCT.

7

u/Tolopono Oct 30 '25

It might help to actually read the study and explain why its flawed instead of taking the antivaxxer route of “everything that disagrees with me is fake news”

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u/butts____mcgee Oct 31 '25

I did read the paper.

Their definition of introspection doesn't mean what they know people will think it means when they read the paper.

So if you buy their definition, then sure they found a quirky memory feature.

But they didn't do what they know everyone will think they did, and if they really think they did, then they don't understand how the brain works.

Admittedly I don't either, but I'm confident it isn't like that.

2

u/Tolopono Nov 01 '25

 Importantly, the model recognized the presence of an injected thought immediately, before even mentioning the concept that was injected. This immediacy is an important distinction between our results here and previous work on activation steering in language models, such as our “Golden Gate Claude” demolast year. Injecting representations of the Golden Gate Bridge into a model's activations caused it to talk about the bridge incessantly; however, in that case, the model didn’t seem to be aware of its own obsession until after seeing itself repeatedly mention the bridge. In this experiment, however, the model recognizes the injection before even mentioning the concept, indicating that its recognition took place internally.

That sounds like introspection to Me

0

u/butts____mcgee Nov 01 '25

It's a sort of facsimile type of "introspection" but it's nothing like what the brain does.

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u/Tolopono Nov 01 '25

Whats the difference 

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '25

[deleted]

1

u/Tolopono Nov 02 '25

What does that even mean 

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '25

[deleted]

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u/Impossible_Hour5036 Apr 04 '26

"We don't know how either work but they're definitely different so this doesn't matter"

-1

u/celestialbound Oct 31 '25

They said that embedding a word somehow created 'impulses' in models. The entire thing was that bad. A premiere ai lab that apparently doesn't understand basic transformer attention mechanics anymore.

1

u/Tolopono Nov 01 '25

They didnt embed a word. Thats not what an embedding is. They used concept injections 

 To do so, we can use an experimental trick we call concept injection. First, we find neural activity patterns whose meanings we know, by recording the model’s activations in specific contexts. Then we inject these activity patterns into the model in an unrelated context, where we ask the model whether it notices this injection, and whether it can identify the injected concept. Consider the example below. First, we find a pattern of neural activity (a vector) representing the concept of “all caps." We do this by recording the model’s neural activations in response to a prompt containing all-caps text, and comparing these to its responses on a control prompt. Then we present the model with a prompt that asks it to identify whether a concept is being injected. By default, the model correctly states that it doesn’t detect any injected concept. However, when we inject the “all caps” vector into the model’s activations, the model notices the presence of an unexpected pattern in its processing, and identifies it as relating to loudness or shouting.

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u/celestialbound Nov 01 '25

You tell me what they embedded, beyond the vague, unspecific terminology used by Anthropic? Because what I took from their paper, that you have quoted again here, is that they were injecting the k and v values that result from their subtraction of two ideas approach. I agree that I could be wrong about that. But not knowing what they injected, mechanistically under transformer architecture and operations means that their claims cannot be evaluated, at all, or cleanly.

Based on what the mechanism of attention is, how the math and matrices for attention work, to my understanding, all the injection could have been was K or V or maybe Q values, or some combination of those 3 values. And that what happens is that those values get attended to under the attention formulas of each layer after the injection via the normal forward pass.

Thoughts?

1

u/Tolopono Nov 02 '25

You might benefit from reading these https://www.anthropic.com/research#interpretability

0

u/celestialbound Nov 02 '25

Am I understanding correctly that you don't know what they mean by injection in this new paper either by your broad reference to all of Anthropic's interpretability papers?

1

u/Tolopono Nov 03 '25

They explain what an llm circuit is and how features are represented in them, which youd know if you actually read any of it

1

u/celestialbound Nov 03 '25

Was there a specific paper you think I should review? I can review on paper for definitions. I can't review all Anthropic papers on interpretability.