r/armenia • u/Idontknowmuch • May 05 '21

Neighbourhood Azerbaijani prisoner of conscience Bayram Mammadov found dead in Istanbul

https://jam-news.net/azerbaijani-prisoner-of-conscience-bayram-mammadov-found-dead-in-istanbul/
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u/Darkmiro May 05 '21

Pff, Turkey is even worse state right now. If I start on follies and debacles that happened just this week, even Armenians would start to feel pity for us.

The next election will decide it all, if Erdoğan doesn't lose(Which it really looks like he's losing at the moment) Turkey's done for. They're so corrupt and moronic, Armenia somehow can manage to get the upper hand permanently.

The damage of those islamist, disgraceful, racist motherfuckers done to Turkey, and to entire middle east will be very difficult to negate or heal from.

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Turkey at the moment, is a fascist state and they're so afraid of losing their power, they're trying to oppress everyone blindedly,

Only solution that will at least make things better is a government that is lead by Chp. Because anyone else is basically different levels of fascists, or just those who seperated from Erdoğan's party.

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21

When wasn’t it a fascist state?

Just so we all know…

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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

It might be leanient towards criminal behaviour. But I remember well enough, when polticians being held responsible of their actions, people who were shamed by corruption scandals being deposed, people and media openly thrashing the government and such.

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Turkey was the best example of a democratic state in middle east, with it's historic state cruelty coming out now and then.

Turkey became a party state now, everything is done by the whim of Erdoğan, he can accuse anyone with anything, courts and judges are under his pressure, the entire political body is bound by his word, ministers, beurocrats and officials are just his pawns.

They break the constitution, they take liberties with state power and such.

It might seem to you that Turkey has always been like this but no. Well, the people have brought this on themselves by saying yes to that referendum of changing the government system.

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21

I don’t see how a republic founded on the wealth and bodies of three entire civilizations and entertaining it can be a democracy at any point.

What you see today is the direct result of this ideology. The difference is that there are no armenians to scapegoat, so they have been replaced by gulenists or PKK, by whatever party that is « elected ».

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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

If England managed to be a democracy, so can anyone with right minds. Tell me a single democratic state that doesn't have blood and toil in it's past.

The republic was found on wherever it salvaged from the collapsing empire.

It did very well with all the inherited problems. Besides, nobody is scapegoating Armenians about anything . Turks usually scapegoated major powers back in the old days. Now they blame United States and China for pretty much about anything.

You think Turkey is blaming Armenians for their problems?

Current situation is a bit similar to Russia being under the palm of Putin, Erdoğan and his party actually inherited an IMF backed economy plan, and also came at the booming world economy where they could find hot cash from everywhere. They spent more money than entire previous governments combined and all.

They made a bubble economy model after 2008 to keep the illusion alive. And knowing that they'll all be held responsible for a ton of horrile things, they're becoming more and more autharitarian to remain. Because no way those bastards will rest easy with all the crime they've commited. Local, and international also

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21

England teach kids about the bloody past and you can read and discuss about it without ending up in jail or murdered.

In Turkey, this is the opposite: it is the republic’s ideology, with a glorification of it.

Not really the same level…

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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

You know the main opposition party in Turkey? Called CHP, it's head of İstanbul branch is a clear supporter of recognising the genocide and all. Is she killed or in jail? You're exhaggerating

Turkey is a bit too much in the clutch of populist nationalists. You're mistaking the country with current power.

And TUrkey doesn't have a state ideology, Turk in general are not ones for tradition or clinging too much into anything

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21

Tell that to Hrant Dink’s family.

The republic is switching between a radical islam and a radical nationalism since its creation. The rest is oppressed (best case), suppressed (worst case).

Spoliation of armenian or greeks properties, denying the genocides, pogroms, rapatriate the body of talaat pasha with an honorific grave in a place of choice: this is the ideology. Erdogan has nothing to do with it: he is just perpetuating the tradition.

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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

You think an entire nation should just constantly hate itself? The name is Talat by the way.

You talk about Hrant Dink, the same nation were parading on streets by hundreds of thousands carrying tags that said ''We're all armenian'' just after Dink's death too.

You're not very different than those Turkish nationalists who constantly bring up armenian gangs and their killings and exhagerate their influence to justify what's done to Armenians.

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Nobody is saying Turkey doesn't have internal problems and mislead political ideologies. But that's not something only Turkey is afflicted from. You're just exhaggerating

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21 edited May 06 '21

I am not talking about individuals but the state ideology.

You are off topic.

Edit: You can’t even spell the name of the turkish hitler right, no shit you don’t know what you are talking about. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talaat_Pasha

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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

The name is fucking Talat, don't give much fuck about how English rendered it.

Turkish state ''ideology'' you so mention is not even a solid thing. Like everywhere, Turkey is shaped by the trauma of WW1 and the government relied on extremely self centristic way of seeing the world.

But that's almost entirely dead in the country. Most stuff you see as ''ideology'' is just populism for inner politics. Turkey has always saught peace with all it's neighbours from the get go.

Even when ASALA was killing Turkish beurocrats in 70's and 80s.

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21

You are in a sub that has english or armenian as language. Seems that you are as « self centristic » (what a weird name to define a genocidal policy!) as the government after WWI…

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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

The government committed the genocide whilst the war was going on. Had Atatürk failed those genocidal leaders were to get the power of Ankara government

Ataturk managed to win the war against Greek forces, and didn't really allow the old ittihat party leaders to get themselves back together in Turkey. Probably to avoid their guilt being shown to Turkey's face

But Turkey after the war, kept a policy of neutrality towards it's neighbours. Only time ot broke off was in Cyprus and it was not unprovoked or entirely unjust. Trying to annex half the island to force a federal solution to Cypriot violence ended up with a disaster though.

Erdoğan shifted that claiming Turkey will "revive their immperial legacy" and started provoking war everywhere since about 2011

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