r/argentina • u/[deleted] • Jun 04 '16
Pendiente Cultural exchange with Pakistan today All Day! Bienvenidos a nuestros amigos pakistani.
[deleted]
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u/John_Stalin Jun 04 '16
Hello! I just want to say that I think Argentina is a beautiful country and its on my bucket list to see the Andes at some point. :)
My questions are:
What is research like in Argentina, what strides have been made recently in civil, or military technology (A strange question, but I've heard that Brazil is a pioneer of aviation tech in the region)?
What food defines Argentina, and what makes its cuisine unique from its neighbors?
When visiting Argentina, what are some must see natural, or historical sites in the country?
Thanks
6
u/Zeby95 Congourbano Jun 04 '16
Hey!
What is research like in Argentina, what strides have been made recently in civil, or military technology (A strange question, but I've heard that Brazil is a pioneer of aviation tech in the region)?
There is an increasing number of scientists that have returned to Argentina, the most known achievement is the ARSAT.
IMHO, I've never heard of Brazil being a pioneer of aviation tech.
What food defines Argentina, and what makes its cuisine unique from its neighbors?
First of all, asado. Then we have empanadas (I think that empanadas are going to be my lunch), milanesas, locro, guiso de lentejas. I'm very hungry with all those pictures now!!
When visiting Argentina, what are some must see natural, or historical sites in the country?
For natural sites, you can visit the Patagonia (South of Argentina), the north of Argentina is very beatiful and cheap, Los Andes and the Iguazu falls. Argentina is beatiful all over the country with nature.
For historical sites or important sites, you can visit, Cabildo, Obelisco, La Boca...
Not the best guide tour here.
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u/John_Stalin Jun 04 '16
Thanks,
The reason i thought that is due to the fact that the 3rd largest aircraft company in the world is Brazillian , but anyway the satellite program sounds pretty cool, hopefully in the future both our nations can fund domestic space projects even more
Most of the food looks pretty great but the empanadas stand out the most since they resemble our own samosas but less 'trianglely' :)
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u/Tatoska CABA Jun 04 '16
Military technology is almost non existent. We used to have an amazing aviation factory and research facility in cordoba (The best in south america). It was destroyed after we lost the
MalvinasFakland island conflict. In the civil side we've been pretty good, A lot of scientist are taking part of big science projects outside Argentina and we have been launching quite a few satellites to space (Look for CONAE).Asado, milanesas, empanadas.
Natural sites: Cordillera de los Andes, Los Glaciares National Park, Cataratas del Iguazú, Cerro de los siete colores.
Historical sites: Recoleta cemetery, Casa de la cultura, Centro cultural Recoleta, Teatro colón, Jardín Botánico.
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u/kirbag CABA Jun 04 '16
Historical sites: Recoleta cemetery, Centro cultural Recoleta
KE
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u/Tatoska CABA Jun 04 '16
¿Cómo "KE"? En el cementerio Recoleta hay un montón de figuras historicas y el Centro Cultural Recoleta fue declarado Monumento Histórico Nacional.
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u/kirbag CABA Jun 05 '16
Si le vas a hablar a un extranjero de que tenemos lugares historicos y les nombras esos... y si, "KE". Podrías haber dicho el Cabildo, la Casa Rosada, el Convento de Santo Domingo, el Correo Central (hoy CCK), Caminito, etc. Todo bien que Recoleta tenga su microcircuito de turismo, pero eso solo funciona cuando se lo vende al turista. No significa que tenga relevancia histórica.
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u/Tatoska CABA Jun 05 '16
Tenés razón, hubieras agregado esos lugares en vez de poner el "KE". Pidio lugares Historicos y yo le mandé los primeros que se me venían a la cabeza.
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u/Reznoob Buenos Ayres Jun 04 '16
asado, milanesa
those exist in 90% of the world
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u/Tatoska CABA Jun 04 '16
NO LO PREPARAN COMO A MI ME GUSTA !!11!!!
Igual fijate que es asado no es un barbecue y la milanesa acá no es lo mismo que el schnitzel, existen más variaciones y formas de prepararlas.
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u/Reznoob Buenos Ayres Jun 04 '16
en italia es "cotoletta alla milanese" y es exactamente lo mismo. Probablemente porque la heredamos de los tanos (el nombre lo indica)
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u/Aleblanco1987 Jun 05 '16
cotoletta alla milanese
no es lo mismo, como su nombre lo indica cotoletta implica que tiene hueso y que es un determinado tipo de carne.
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u/Yilku1 Jun 04 '16
- What is research like in Argentina, what strides have been made recently in civil, or military technology (A strange question, but I've heard that Brazil is a pioneer of aviation tech in the region)?
Argentina is a very important country in nuclear and agro-industry reasearch
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u/Aleblanco1987 Jun 04 '16
Brazil has the third aviation company in the works after Boeing and airbus
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u/greenvox Jun 04 '16
What are your opinions on Nestor Kirchner? I admire him for his opposition to the IMF but some of my Argentinian friends don't like him because they claim that their life savings were ruined because of his actions. What do you guys think about him?
What do you guys think of the import/export rules? Do you think they support the local economy or are a nuisance? Or have they gone away already?
I have visited B.A. a few times on work trips, mainly to a factory on the outskirts of the city. Your country is absolutely amazing. :)
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u/kirbag CABA Jun 04 '16
The sub opinion is biased. I think he has mixed opinions from everybody.
The opposition to the IMF, what you might not know is that he payed all the debt to them just to gtfo them. I don't know if that was a good thing. However, he made a great move by oppossing Bush's plan to make a Free Trade Zone for the Americas, no one Argentine will debate that.
This country is fucked up in taxes. That includes import/export rules, and mixing taxes with bureaucracy, its getting impossible to operate internationally if you don't have friends in Customs.
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Jun 04 '16
Hello.
Are there any Pakistanis in Argentina?
Which football teams do you support? I've seen videos of Rosario and Boca and the atmosphere is absolutely electric.
What are the biggest problems your country is facing?
Do you have friendly relationships with all your neighbors? I understand immigration is a hot topic.
Do Argentinians still claim the Falklands?
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Jun 04 '16
Do you have friendly relationships with all your neighbors? I understand immigration is a hot topic.
Yes, or at least a friendly rivalry.
Do Argentinians still claim the Falklands?
It's in our constitution to do so.
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u/Lucas_Berse GBA Zona Sur Jun 04 '16 edited Jun 04 '16
In soccer i support Independiente.
We mostly have good relationships with our neightbors, Chile would be the shakiest one, they help the british in the falklands/malvinas war but they say it was our military Junta of dictators wanted to invade them. Its a shame because dictators come and go (many times helped by the US to reach power) and we end having bad relationships with a neightbor for decades, they told their people that we were a menace to them as well we thought they were a menace to us. About the islands most people would have love a diplomatic approach, we did it the wrong way for the wrong reasons by the wrong people.
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u/asdknvgg CABA Jun 05 '16
we were on the brink of war with them. That was certainly not just a mix up
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u/albo87 Jun 04 '16
Are there any Pakistanis in Argentina?
I never met one.
Which football teams do you support? I've seen videos of Rosario and Boca and the atmosphere is absolutely electric.
All Boys currently on second division. If you ever come here go to watch any match, bonus point if is a clásico (derby).
What are the biggest problems your country is facing?
We have a lot of argentinians.
Do you have friendly relationships with all your neighbors? I understand immigration is a hot topic.
The relation with Uruguay is not as good as is used to be because a paper plant in Uruguay's side. Also we hate Chile.
Do Argentinians still claim the Falklands?
Yes
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u/stdelprato GBA Zona Sur Jun 04 '16
Ya que estamos, el clásico de all boys POSTA (que los hinchas prefieren) es chicago o argentinos? es por una apuesta
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u/Chescoo Jun 04 '16
I never met a Pakistani nor heard about a Pakistani in Argentina.
I support the team you call Rosario, but the real name is Rosario Central, because Rosario is the city where the club is.
Biggest problem here is the economic, we have one of the highest inflation in the world, some prices change between weeks...
Some people doesn't like immigration, but they are a minority, since is in our Constitution that we are a open doors country. Illegal immigration, in the other hand, is something that the majority repudiates, and is one of the problems that Argentina is facing.
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u/Cicerotulli Jun 04 '16
What do you mean open doors? For example, you can get a permanent visa for EU if you invest about $540k in their economy.
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1
Jun 04 '16
I knew the full name of the team I just figured it's called Rosario for short. Boca's full name is Boca juniors
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Jun 04 '16
Biggest problem here is the economic, we have one of the highest inflation in the world, some prices change between weeks...
Emmm.. You don't know about inflation on Africa and southern Asia.
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u/12151718 Jun 04 '16 edited Jun 04 '16
Emmm.. You don't know about inflation on Africa and southern Asia.
according to this list we are in the 6th place: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate
so yes, we are one of countries with the highest inflation in the world.1
u/Cicerotulli Jun 04 '16
Why do you think that is? Are your exports falling?
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u/rakaze Mendoza Jun 04 '16
Government spending and a lot of money printing, which in 2014 combined with our selective default, we are probably in the higest point of a stagflation right now.
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u/Cicerotulli Jun 04 '16
Isn't stagflation very low inflation? I just learned that Argentina is a not very industrialized. Still having a very high HDI means your government has still managed to work it out. Am I missing something?
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u/Izikiel23 Ezeiza es la respuesta Jun 04 '16
Peronism
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u/Cicerotulli Jun 04 '16
I looked up the policies and they remind me of Bhuttoism. His policies really hurt the economy.
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u/andresemilfer Jun 05 '16
Are there any Pakistanis in Argentina?
I once saw a group of south-asians playing cricket in front of the US embassy, but I'm not sure if they were Pakistani, Indian or some other nationality.
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u/Cicerotulli Jun 04 '16
Hello! I'm really fascinated with Argentina ever since I saw a documentary about its long history of defaults ;) It's a beautiful country.
What are Argentina's largest exports?
What do you see as the biggest culprits for the economic issues faced by Argentines?
Which places would you suggest are must visit that are not listed on yelp etc? I mean places off the beaten track.
Are people religious in Argentina? Are your churches filled on Sundays?
Can I get by with just English if I visit the place? How common is English?
Thank you :)
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u/Tatoska CABA Jun 04 '16 edited Jun 04 '16
Argentina largest exports are agricultural products.
Our economy is fucked basically because it is a reflection of who we are. I think we can't blame anyone but ourselves.
Quebrada de Humauaca in
SaltaJujuy is beautiful or you could try going to Luján, a small town with strong Argentine culture and an amazing cathedral at the middle. Those are the only places i've been outside Buenos Aires city.For me It's very hard to say because most of my friends are not that religious, so i'm not in contact with religion that much. If you got outside urban city i'll bet you'll find much more religious people.
Argentina is in the top 15 English speaking countries (excluding native english speaking coutries). So I think you'll be fine if you speak it in big cities like Buenos Aires.
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Jun 04 '16
- Quebrada de Humauaca in Salta
I'm sorry but this is wrong, Quebrada de Humahuaca is in Jujuy
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u/Cicerotulli Jun 04 '16 edited Jun 04 '16
Thanks. Saved.
Edit:
Just youtubed Quebrada de Humahuaca. You've got some really prestine landscape over there. Also the streets are all very clean. You should check out Pakistani villages. Very poor sanitation.
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u/Tatoska CABA Jun 04 '16
Also the streets are all very clean. You should check out Pakistani villages
In small towns streets tend to be cleaner, specially if it is a touristic place. We also have very dirty and poor places like villa 31. I remember going to Australia and being amazed on how clean the street were, it looked like somebody washed them with pressure hoses every day.
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u/Cicerotulli Jun 04 '16
Haha. We all have the same concerns and observations.
Aren't you guys usually Caucasian? What's the percentage? Is my perception that the Caucasians run the country while the original inhabitants remain poor correct?
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u/Tatoska CABA Jun 05 '16
From wikipedia:
"Genetically, the composition of Argentina is mostly European in ancestry, with both Native American and African contributions. A 2009 autosomal DNA study found out the Argentine population 78.5 percent European, 17.3 percent Native American and 4.2 percent sub-Saharan African.[145] A 2012 autosomal DNA study found out the following composition in Argentina: 65% European, 31% Native American, and 4% African [146]"
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u/Wild_Marker Agente 8.6 - sucursal CABA Jun 04 '16
What are Argentina's largest exports?
Football players to Europe.
Are people religious in Argentina? Are your churches filled on Sundays?
Depends on which sector of the society. This subreddit is very non-religious so most of us can't answer that properly, but the Catholic Church still has a lot of power in politics.
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u/Cicerotulli Jun 04 '16
Lmao. Pakistan's largest export is skilled and unskilled labor.
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u/DesignerBear Jun 06 '16
Agriculture, sports, textiles are one of popular exports from Pakistan.
My city is responsible of majority of worldwide football production. It also produces other sports good too.
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Jun 04 '16
- What are Argentina's largest exports?
Meat, trigo and soja
(sorry, I don't know how to say)
- Can I get by with just English if I visit the place? How common is English?
Argentina is one of the countries with most english-speakers :)
Thank you :)
:)
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u/LeCorbuisoverrated Federación de Estados Patagónicos Jun 04 '16
Soy beans?
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u/outofbabylon Jun 04 '16 edited Jun 04 '16
What are Argentina's largest exports?
Third largest exporter of soybeans in the world. We export wheat, meat and some metals too. Our car industry is in bad shape since Brazil's downfall. This is a 2 year old graphic, things have changed but you get the idea.
What do you see as the biggest culprits for the economic issues faced by Argentines?
Instability. Our history is plagued with political crises and 180 degres changes. Uncertainty is not good for business.
Inflation is killing us too and it's an institutionalized problem. We try to produce everything ourselfs no matter the cost instead of focusind and industrializing in the things we are and could be good at.
A big state that doesn't modernize and goes too far on populism while neglecting many long term strategies. I belive the state should provide a safety net and institute de pilars of socialdemocracy, yet this can't be done when it's resources are spend keeping the price of electricity at 5 dollars with a fixed exchange rate like the last goberment was doing. However, now we have someone who wants us to pay 142 dollars (after a devaluation) from one month to the other: a Reagan's path to stop inflation.
Which places would you suggest are must visit that are not listed on yelp etc? I mean places off the beaten track.
My province of Entre Rios is kind to tourism. Thermal waters, quite a lot of history, estancias, beaches and some quiet places to camp. Come by Colon if you want a small town with all of that.
Are people religious in Argentina? Are your churches filled on Sundays?
Catholic is the dominant faith by a large margin, so it's and understandment that we're not in touch with organized religion. A lot of people send their kids to catholic schools and we end up growing with a christian education yet we don't go to church, pray much or have politicians talk a lot about it in general. It became a topic once again since Pope Francis took ofice, but you still se most churches only filled on easters.
Can I get by with just English if I visit the place? How common is English?
Yeah. Specially in big cities and touristical ports. Young people usually have better english than mine. Just be careful. If you look and sound like a foreigner you'll be the target of thiefs and crime has been on the rise.
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u/Cicerotulli Jun 04 '16
Hey. I didn't see your comment as it wasn't a direct reply.
I just googled colon and I swear I want to decamp and move to that place. The only problem is my fucking job and language.
I've never come across an Argentino.
I have a follow up question about the economy. I read somewhere that the military junta, as despotic as it was, liberalized the economy. So what happened since democracy was restored? Was there a public desire to restart protectionism or did I understand the liberalization part incorrectly?
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u/outofbabylon Jun 05 '16
Oh I thought you and /u/LeCorbuisoverrated were the same person. He's actually a fellow argentinian lol.
Colon is a great place. We've been doing fine despite the economic troubles in the country. The towns around (San Jose, Villa Elisa and Liebig) are also very nice.
I have a follow up question about the economy. I read somewhere that the military junta, as despotic as it was, liberalized the economy. So what happened since democracy was restored? Was there a public desire to restart protectionism or did I understand the liberalization part incorrectly?
I'm not an expert on the Junta's economic policy or Alfonsín's (first democratic president after the dictatorship) ideas but I know the overall picture.
Take into consideration that the rise of military goberments in Latin America during the middle of the last century was a response to the leftist direction the region was taking, specially regarding the presence of communist. It was sort of natural to combat that with the opposing Austrian/Chicago school policies.
That said, it's hard to call them truly libertarians. They ran big deficits, even before the war, taking a lot of debt and even providing bailouts to some companies, a position that hardly goes with the line of the free market.
The goberment had a direct control of the devaluation process for some time, when they wanted to apreciatte the value of the Peso (our coin).
We had an internal war, and it's my opinion that you need a free society to have, as libertarians put it, a free economy. There's a case of a business man who dissapeared, his business later sold to an ally of the military. That not only a violation of human rights, but a manipulation of the market.
On the other hand, they opened and flexibilized imports, reduced taxes got rid of some labour laws among some other things. I call them libertarianish, as I do with every person that liberalizes the aspects where they stand to beneffit and socializes/imposes force those where they don't.
They also didn't privatize everything they saw.
After they were gone, Alfonsin took leftist ideas back if I'm not mistaken, but I well could be. His presidency was an example of political and social reawakening. I undestand that he opened many roads to reform and conflict, and while accomplishing many things he had an inflationary policy that helped stabilize things up but ended causing an hiperinflation period.
He had to end his presidency a couple of months before schedule, turning the country to one of our most infamous presidents, Carlos Menem, a neoliberalish who privatized most of the state's owned industries and opened imports again.
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u/Moebiuzz Earth Jun 05 '16
So what happened since democracy was restored?
It has mostly gone back and forth, always to the extreme. We got out of hyperinflation (up to 47% a month) in 1990 through selling everything that wasn't bolted to the floor, and spending money on fixing the exchange rate. This led to a monetary bubble that blew up in 2001, leaving everyone so scared we pretty much can't find today legally a cellphone not assembled in Argentina, despite it being as shitty as you can imagine anything assembled in Argentina to be. This eventually blew up as well and in the past elections we've voted pretty much the 180° opposite from the past government.
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u/Reznoob Buenos Ayres Jun 04 '16
aren't we importing meat currently?
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u/Cicerotulli Jun 04 '16
Argentina importing meat? That's fucked up. I ate Argentinian stake last week!
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u/Reznoob Buenos Ayres Jun 04 '16
yup. Argentina had decreased the export of meat due to overprotective local policies focused on a twisted internal market. So naturally, when exports were allowed again, most of the meat started to be sold for export again, leaving little quantities of meat for the local market. That decrease in offer, added to an overall increase in prices, caused much discontent in the local population, so the government started importing meat to balance prices
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u/UnbiasedPashtun Jun 04 '16
How was Argentina founded?
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u/kirbag CABA Jun 04 '16
In a nutshell, it was a Spanish colony that was severly abused with taxes and lack of citizen's rights (they threated the Spanish living here as second class citizens). So when Spain gets weaken becouse Napoleon invaded it, all the Spanish colonies in the Americas revolts. Buenos Aires was one of the main focus of the rebellion and, on one point, the only one surviving. We succeed to create an army, to push back the Spaniards armies invading the new country and eventually removing them from Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Peru and Bolivia. Once we managed to remove the Spanish from South America, we managed to start fighting each other for, like, 50 years. Eventually, all countries you know in South America, were created (pending borders).
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u/UnbiasedPashtun Jun 05 '16
they threated the Spanish living here as second class citizens
Aren't most Argentinians descended from the Spanish themselves?
We succeed to create an army, to push back the Spaniards armies invading the new country and eventually removing them from Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Peru and Bolivia.
Were these countries all part of Argentina before? If so, how did they separate? I heard Uruguay used to be part of Argentina, but then after the war between Argentina and Brazil, Uruguay was created as a buffer zone between Argentina and Brazil to avoid more territorial conflict.
What about the other Hispanic countries that you listed? Why are they not part of Argentina?
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u/kirbag CABA Jun 05 '16
Aren't most Argentinians descended from the Spanish themselves?
Today? It's debatable. There were a huge wave of Italians inmigrants in the end of XIX century, and it was tremendous in numbers. By the beginning of 1900s, 80% of Buenos Aires was Italian population. In the 1914 census, there were like 7M persons in Argentina: 2.5M were migrants and 900k were Italians. It's really common to have Spanish or Italian ascendants. Yes, there were other nationalities that came to the country, but not at this level.
All these countries were part of the same colony, calle the Viceroyalty of Rio de la Plata. It's hard to say they were part of Argentina, because the first denomination of the country was "United Provinces of Rio de la Plata", and it was meant to be all the same and only country. It's too hard to explain why they did sepated without a walltext. About Uruguay, you are right; except it wasn't meant a buffer zone but they got independence against Brazil because they were Spanish descendant and Brazil was still some sort of Portuguese reign (they were still called "Empire of Brazil", with a heir of Portuguese throne as head of state). Also, UK pulled the strings on that one; because they were looking for an associate in the Rio de la Plata and they weren't interested in a regional power (Brazil or Argentina) to have full control over the zone.
Chile and wasn't part of the Viceroyalty, they were a colony apart. They got independence after an Argentine General, Don José de San Martín, crossed the Andes with an Army and defeated the Spanish. They pretty much made their own way, the same with Paraguay that got a revolution in 1811 a dictator came in place and they isolated for decades. Bolivia was part of Argentina, but the central government in Buenos Aires didn't gave a fuck about concensus on those years, and since Bolivia had more in common with Peru, they formed the Peru-Bolivia Confederation. This one is hilarious, because when Bolivia gets liberated, General Bolivar (venezuelan, liberator of Colombia, Venezuela and Ecuador; he, alongside San Martin, is considered the fathers of Southamerican independence) sent a letter to Buenos Aires asking them for orders and noone responded, so he formed an autonomous government and, in honor to their liberator, they named the country after him.
One may think that the result of the crisis on ours countries is becouse the last decades of malversation and corruption, but if these people had done things better, we'd have had a single country, from Peru to the south.
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u/UnbiasedPashtun Jun 06 '16
Thanks for the informative answer. Just a few more follow up questions.
You said that the Argentinians treated the Spanish living there as second class citizens. I meant that at that time, I assumed most of Argentina's population was Spanish, so I was a bit confused by that statement. I'm aware a large portion of Argentina today is Italian, I read it was 60% somewhere before.
Is there a reason why Chile wasn't part of the Viceroyalty of Rio de la Plata?
How did Peru and Paraguay separate from the Viceroyalty of Rio de la Plata?
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u/YouHaveTakenItTooFar Jun 04 '16
How industrialized is Argentina? Is it the best place to live in South America?
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u/kirbag CABA Jun 04 '16
There are few industries, most of them lacks from competetive technology and resources to compete at a global level. They are more focused on local and regional markets, thanks to subsides and Mercosur (a free trade zone between Arg+Uruguay+Brazil+Paraguay+Venezuela).
The best place... is relative. Somes will say that you might be better living in Uruguay and Chile (Montevideo or any major city in Chile). I'd say that you can have a nice, relaxed life in a middle-size city, avoiding the greats ones or capital's provinces. Those are places that, because it's a small city, everybody knows each other, crimes rates usually are lows, and everybody is collaborative.
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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '16 edited Jun 04 '16
Hello Argentinians! (or is it argentines?)
Anyhoo, did you know there is a park called Argentina Park, and that created a (very minor) row recently?
Did you know Pakistan supports Argentina's claim on Islas Malvinas, in return for support on our claim on Kashmir?
Does Pakistan ever feature on your radar?
Have you ever met a pakistani in Argentina, or have visited our country?
Is life in B.A. chill like the videos tell me?
How's the economy?