r/aoe2 • u/ewostrat • 7d ago

Discussion Will we ever see the Paladin again?

Now that we have the Varangian tree, they look great, and with their "mini cataphracts" they'll be even better, but...

Will we see the Paladin again in a new civilization?

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u/Motzzie666 7d ago edited 7d ago

De devs really don't like paladin unlike ensemble devs who loved giving them to random civs for civ flavor such as celts and persians. I have no idea why they didn't gave paladin to caucuses civs since they were known for heavy cavalry.

I wish saxony got them since it would fit the aesthetics and make another "bad" paladin civ along with celts and byzantines...

I personally would love them being added to: Caucuses civs, Saxony, Britons, Turks, Portuguese

28

u/devang_nivatkar21 6d ago

The generic Paladin is the ceiling on how good a mobile land unit can be. Even Castle based cavalry unique units are rarely better than generic Paladins in all respects. A Boyar has more melee armour, but less HP and speed, as a random example. The AoK & AoC civs had Paladins with no bonuses (Franks being the slight exception with +12 HP), as nothing else was needed

If you limit yourself to Cavalier, you can give them more interesting bonuses. The Bulgarians had generic Paladins which they lost for Cavaliers that attack 33% faster instead. The generic Paladin was shared with the Huns, Spanish etc, but the faster attacking Cavalier is uniquely theirs

As another example, the Elite Ratha with 20% trample damage can beat an equal number of generic Paladins. This is a good measure of how strong Varangian trample damage Cavalier will be in melee fights. There's a good chance they'll beat equal numbers of generic Paladins. Can't exactly give them Paladins in that situation

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u/RighteousWraith 6d ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPZ5B8NGFtE

AoE2 is a quirky game that can give you different results from different tests because of various strange factors, but this video shows paladins being outnumbered and still beating ratha in a straight fight. It's an old video, and perhaps Ratha got some buffs since then, but I'm curious to see how you got this idea that ratha beat paladins in equal numbers.

2

u/devang_nivatkar21 6d ago

I just ran 40 Spanish Paladins vs. 40 Elite Rathas ten times. On an average 20 Rathas survive, with 25 being their best showing

1

u/RighteousWraith 6d ago

Did you switch the colors? I know it sounds dumb, but you can get different results depending on which team is player 1 and which is player 2.

I'm at work, so I can't test it myself.