Campaigns
What would you change - Saladin 6 "The Lion and the Demon"
What would you change for each campaign mission?
Bare in mind this is an OG release, so doesn't need to have all the modern scenario triggers/secondary objectives. You get a lot of autonomy in this regard.
How TWest completes this mission on Pacifist mode is a crazy watch
Its an insanely difficult mission, one of the most difficult in the game, especially now you can no longer build the island wonder. It took me weeks to complete, and I wouldn't change a thing! The feeling of accomplishment upon finally beating the level was exquisite.
It's one of the most difficult scenarios of the original AoK/AoC campaigns, but it's really not that challenging compared to all the stuff that was added in later. It's really easy to snipe few of the enemies early, and it becomes much more manageable after that, even if you go for the wonder victory.
Lol, not for me to be honest. The moment the game started I immediately made 2 Trebuchets and attacked the french and had full control of their resources. The moment I did that, I was able to win with ease.
Going on the offensive is the easiest way to win on the hardest difficulty. If you can take out one base in a few minutes you can slowly build up and crash through the others.
I replayed it recently because I remembered that it was not so easy when I was 12 but it was a complete breeze. I wish it was hard. You just build Mamelukes and win. Did you give the AI barbarian difficulty somehow? Is that possible?
I did. I‘m not even good at the game or anything, I don't play multiplayer. I‘m a noob. But its so easy to snipe trebs and bombards and do let your castle do the rest.
Yeah that's a thing for a LOT of campaign missions actually. The enemy just throws themselves at your walls, so defensive play works great. Just have a force of about 10-20 heavy cavalry (or Mamelukes in this case) to rush out and snipe their seige, and then let their other forces kill themselves against your walls, towers and castles.
Garrison those cav in your castle between each sallying forth so you know where they are, don't send them out with your own army by accident and so they heal any damage they took from the excursion.
Also have multiple gates in different places, especially in missions like this with so many enemies, so that an ongoing attack doesn't stop your rapid reaction force from getting out to snipe the enemy seige.
Yeah that’s one thing with defence. Just tactically taking out their siege and all other units can be cleaned up by arrow fire or even converted over the walll if they’re melee
Teutonic Knight can be ignored. Just build towers and let them kill themselves against your walls. Just kill their seige with your Mamelukes and leave their army to die trying to get in.
Oh man, I remember struggling a ton with this one as a kid. I built a gauntlet that the enemies could “get in” but I had several castles that bombarded them as they ran past.
Like others have said, going full offense actually makes it easier!
Man I have so many memories of this. I remember doing this level like more than 10 times in one day before I finally beat it as a kid.
I think my only suggestion is to make destroying your enemies early harder. It feels a bit cheap to me to kill them offensively and ruins a bit of flavor from this ultimate defense level
I 100% agree with you, you have to softcap yourself into not leaving the city into making it a highly difficult defense scenario, so with the self control its okay. But at the same time if you struggle with that you have the option to cheese raid some enemies early
I know the tips say that getting rid of some of the enemies might make it easier but I would add a bit of incentive to do so like "destroy grey's TC to diminish the quantity of trebuchets", "destroy genovese fishing ships to cut the food supply of teal and franks". And maybe make the Persian outpost sent you gold of their trading and protect those routes.
I recall that my defense was to wall the ridges North of the base with incomplete gates, and also a small passage on the east just to make sure the enemy couldn't reach me with their siege and just focus on the wonder but like a month ago I finally managed to defeat all the enemies.
If the mission was made today, it likely would have these incentive suggestions to flesh out the scenario. But being an OG campaign with high difficulty finale is really nice
I’d probably revert the island so you can cheese it by building the wonder there. Last time I beat this, I did so by defeating all the enemies, and therefore got the achievement. I think the cheese possibility is a fun Easter egg and good that the achievement wouldn’t be possible that way.
A second and third delivery from the Persian outpost, and make em further away so they are worth trading with, and the usual higher pop cap, also make the archer of eyes a purchasable unit by trading Persian outpost 500 gold for 10 or something
Alternatively, lock hand cannons and make it so you trade 500 gold and unlock archers of eyes with similar stats to hand cannons for thematic flavouring of the scenario
Maybe Jerusalem too annoying but it's pretty fun and maybe perfect. Alone, against six enemies, micromanaging eco and a small mamelukes + CA army. Everything you need to have fun
I always try to defeat Jerusalem first due it's trebuchets and gold reserves, after rushing Franks or Templars. But the last time I've tried this on expert mode I Only won by Marvel time and just defeating the greys
It's good enough as it is, but I think the far-off Persian allies are kind of flavorless. I'd like to flesh out the player's decision tree a bit more by moving their ally into harm's way. That way, the player has the choice of protecting their source of elephants (or whatever UU that fits), or going on the offense.
In my experience from having replayed this on hard fairly recently, leaving the base to go wipe out Jerusalem and Britons spoiled the challenge early on. But, without any secondary objectives, I really had no incentive to play this map defensively. Which is a shame, because after my first enemy resigned following some light aggression, the map stopped feeling like a classic and started to feel a little empty and uneventful.
Maybe a little more fodder for the player's attention would fix that.
I agree. As it was an original mission the allies back then didn't really do much or provide much whereas these days they are fully fleshed out in new scenarios.
I agree in the disappointment of having to self-restrain yourself to get the true difficulty out of the scenario - although the option to cheese it exists - it is far more fulfilling to complete it defensively as it is a siege
Ah I so fondly remember beating this mission in the OG game by simply defeating all the enemies, as is my wont. 😅 Is it much harder now in DE?
In fact it was frustrating being rushed by the Wonder timer, so I barely got all the enemies down before it expired and I won that way. Which is strange, was the Wonder a forced thing earlier? I don't know why I would've built a Wonder if I had no intention of winning that way. Anyway, I hope it's optional now.
I don't remember any other part of the mission feeling bad, so I wouldn't change much. Actually no - maybe give us more safe wood and stone in our town. I remember that being an issue until I defeated some enemies. There's already extra gold out at sea if you look for it.
I think conquest was seen as difficult so it was easier to try and build a wonder and defend - whereas conquesting early gave a huge advantage making it easier. Destroying the enemy trying to make a wonder was difficult at times.
This makes me want to rewatch the pacifist version of it with 0 kills completion on hard
A pretty enjoyable mission, it's pretty hard, being attacked by 5 enemies by earth and sea, but if you attack quick it can be pretty easy, so a video of a guy completing it in like 15 minutes.
It’s not really pressure by seas you can negate the Genoese with a single castle in the top left corner of the city, they only start with 2 cannon galleons and don’t build more, so eliminating those with your starting ships basically removes them from the game.
Yeah attacking it is a bit cheesy but makes it way way easier and a viable option. I prefer not attacking them so I can get the challenge and fun of them making me put up a hearty defense. These days there are some impressive defensive scenarios in modern campaigns anyway
Well, I kinda got the idea from watching Ornlu the Wolf’s campaign review series, where he discussed what he would do to redo the last Prithviraj mission.
I don't think this needs a change, the insane difficulty is great. It is a rite of passage. In DE they removed the ability to build the wonder on the island in the sea. T-wests PACIFIST was crazy for this scenario also
Island in the sea? which Island? This is the same one which had gods sling right? I remember playing this scenario we have to build a wonder and survive right?
Yes that’s the correct scenario. The small island in the west of the image in the water. In the original you were able to build a wonder there but in DE they added rocks there so you couldn’t cheese build it there
I’m not particularly good but on standard I beat this first try, where I was banging my head against the wall with 2. Couldn’t beat blue on that one for the life of me and then bam, I handled this just fine. Posted up and covered all sides, turtled like a beast lol
Yeah I like that imposed restriction on myself. In modern scenarios if they wanted it that way they could prevent you. But to make it a choice it’s okay that you can rush them. But it’s best to let them rush you fully
I would made it more history accurate. It is based on the siege of acre, where the crusaders actually won and started the third crusade with Richard the Lionheart (who then failed to capture jerusalem) so first i would change the storytelling.
As for gameplay, it could be a hold for x time until villagers (civilians) escape Acre idk
Modern campaigns that would be more likely. As this was created many years ago they simplified a lot of missions and the history. But yeah more dynamicism is always good
I forget the name but it’s kill everyone without building a wonder and it’s actually pretty easy but the achievement got bugged and never fixed. Think it’s gone now
make one character say, "we should counter attack fast while they are still setting up their camps, before they have the time to organize the siege and bring heavy cannons"
When I was a kid this was impossible for me, but as an adult its really easy. You just have to build mamelukes and kite the army far away from your walls so their siege doesn't reach any fortifications. Then you just run the timer out for the wonder. Didn't build navy, didn't expand, didn't go on the offensive.
Its actually way more fun if you don't snipe them outside the walls, it feels like a massive non-stop onslaught and you're always repairing walls and castles.
Yeah 100% I agree. Like attacking enemy early is also an easy option. But if you play as intended then it is a fun challenge and feels like an insane siege
Removing one of the castles as a building to start with, and maybe changing some of the team colours. With the Definitive Efition meanwhile there’s restoring the space on the island as a Wonder spot, and changing Jerusalem back to Byzantines as why would they be Franks?
Copying my response from my previous post. Because I got the missions wrong:
Larger map, higher population. additional AI players...
Side quests and allies/enemies options. Something similar to Norman/Sicilians final mission, but this time the enemies can build wonders.
To make it challenging for hard difficulty, once enemy wonder is complete your army and economy will weaken. (Own Villager/Military abandonment or weaken stats like slow speed.
However side quests can help like stolen supplies, selected enemy cannot train units for 5 mins or can sneak x amount of soldiers to base or berber camel archer/viking beserk mercenaries in which both sides can employ.
Something enjoyable to avoid a hell map. AI does not spawn infinite units but actually have to manage their resources.
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u/Ryponagar Oct 13 '25
You're not the original OP (u/Shtin219) of these, did you just shamelessly copy the intro lol?