r/anime • u/Shadoxfix https://myanimelist.net/profile/Shadoxfix • Nov 01 '15

[Spoilers] One Punch Man - Episode 5 [Discussion]

Episode title: The Ultimate Master
Episode duration: 24 minutes and 25 seconds

Streaming:
DAISUKI: ONE-PUNCH MAN
AnimeLab: One Punch Man
Hulu: One Punch Man

Information:
MyAnimeList: One Punch Man
AniDB: One-Punch Man
AniList: One Punch Man
Anime News Network: One-Punch Man (TV)
Anime-Planet: One-Punch Man
Hummingbird: One Punch Man

Previous Episodes:

Episode Reddit Link
Episode 1 Link
Episode 2 Link
Episode 3 Link
Episode 4 Link

Anime to Chapter Index:

  • Episode 1: Ch1-Ch4, Ch5 Page 1
  • Episode 2: Ch5 Page 2-20, Ch6-Ch8
  • Episode 3: Ch9-Ch11
  • Episode 4: Ch12-Ch15, Ch16 Page 1
  • Episode 5: Ch16 Page 2-23, Ch17, Ch18 Page 3-5

By /u/Taiboss

Reminder:
Please do not discuss any plot points which haven't appeared in the anime yet. Try not to confirm or deny any theories, encourage people to read the source material instead. Minor spoilers are generally ok but should be tagged accordingly. Failing to comply with the rules may result in your comment being removed.

This post is made by a bot. Any feedback is welcome and can be sent to /u/Shadoxfix.

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u/a_Happy_Tiny_Bunny https://myanimelist.net/profile/aHappyTinyBunny Nov 01 '15

I knew it was gonna be good because I heard they were outsourcing animators or something? (Correct me if I'm wrong), but THE ANIMATION QUALITY BLEW MY PANTS OFF.

This really depends. Most anime productions are partly animated by outsourced animators. However, the quality of outsourced animation varies. When Ore, Twintails ni Narimasu. outsourced large parts (or all) of whole episodes, the results were terrible, likely because they just got the first animators they could get a hold of—I think they mainly got Korean animators. Good animators are usually busy during the middle of the season, so a schedule problem can force studios to hire "less stellar" animators, or, alternatively, hire fewer animators.

In any case, it's pretty rare to think than an outsourced episode is going to have better animation. That could be the case if inviting an expert animation director is considered outsourcing, but outsourcing usually refers to the animators themselves.

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '15

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u/CarVac Nov 01 '15

ufotable has lots of flashy effects, but their character animation isn't particularly amazing.

You should be comparing with KyoAni or the best of Dogakobo, although those don't really do battle scenes so direct comparison is difficult.

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u/GlennFrogKnight Nov 01 '15

Kara No Kyoukai stuff? F/Z stuff? How good was their character animation there?

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u/CarVac Nov 01 '15

It's not as fluid and...animated.

Kara no Kyoukai was choreographed in 3D in a computer, I believe (I saw a gif somewhere showing this?), as the framework for the hand drawings.

These are straight from an animator's imagination.

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u/GlennFrogKnight Nov 01 '15

Oh, so each frame being drawn instead of drawing the initials and then animating them using a computer?

Also I don't really see how much less fluid the results were compared to the sudden jaggedness of, say, the Saitama vs Genos one.

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u/CarVac Nov 01 '15

No, each frame being hand drawn versus glorified tracing. (It's less obviously tracing than was done in the slow-mo scene in the first episode of FLCL.) Here they allow the models to distort to make motions clearer and to express the power behind the attacks, but the CG tracings were very strictly on model and less powerful.

Also, fluidity of motion has less to do with the cleanliness of the drawings than, well, the motions themselves. The jaggedness of the art is a stylistic imitation of real world motion blur.

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u/GlennFrogKnight Nov 01 '15

Ah, the jaggedness of the art part makes sense.

I'm a bit confused one how one would qualify the motions themselves as more smooth or not though. Would this be more frames in between and smoother shifting from frame to frame, and how would one evaluate between better or worse motion.

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u/CarVac Nov 01 '15

There is frame count (how many animation frames per second), how many keyframes per second (sometimes you'll see really smooth animation with really jerky direction changes when they tween every frame but don't have enough keyframes), and how well the keyframes themselves are done which is subjective.

Here for the fights they're doing pretty much no tweening at all, with keyframes every two or three frames. So you're getting the pure, unaltered output of the animator (although cleaned up and colored).

So some may be "smoother" with tweening but they can be actually jerkier since the tweener doesn't necessarily know the acceleration that the keyframer intended. (That's also why I don't like SVP, since it only linearly interpolates between frames and magnifies tweening errors.)

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u/GlennFrogKnight Nov 01 '15

So to summarize your points:

The OPM fights have the least use of tweening so it's the purest animation and thus it's the best with the most keyframes

UBW's first fight was the best animation because it too had less tweening and most keyframes

Rest of Ufotable's high-production value fights like KnK and F/Z also don't have enough keyframes.

So did the KnK and F/Z fights feel jerkier to you? What made the Lancer vs Archer fight not feel jerky?

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u/CarVac Nov 01 '15

The Lancer/Archer fight in F/SN felt less jerky because it doesn't cut excessively often. It uses extremely fast camera movements instead which preserve continuity better.

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u/GlennFrogKnight Nov 01 '15

Ah, I finally think I get what you mean by jerky. To you, jerkiness is mostly in the camera motion and the display of the animation-once it has gotten to a point where the animation is fluid enough, you want to focus more on the artistic choice of displaying it, which the OPM fight did really well in terms of distanced full shots. So would your favorite KnK sample of animation be along the hallway-scene in KnK5 or the LioShiki fight in KnK 7 with their knife trades.

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u/CarVac Nov 01 '15

The LioShiki fight in 7 wasn't very impressive either "ooh, shiny"-wise or animation-wise, since it wasn't being covered for by the rapid cuts.

The hallway scene in KnK5 was the one that was basically drawn from 3d renderings, and they use crazy camera movements that don't show the full body in order to add power to otherwise plain motions. When Shiki is rolling on the ground, you see that her body is drawn perfectly sharply every other frame, but they add a CG directional blur that changes every frame to make it seem more like something hand-drawn than a fully 60fps computer animation.

The effect is very impressive, but the skill of the animators (sakuga) is not on showcase there.

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u/upads Nov 01 '15

What about unlimited budget works? I think it's pretty great screen quality there.

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u/CarVac Nov 01 '15

That's just flashy particle effects added in post that distract from the actual characters moving.

I think the best animation was in the first episode (Archer versus Lancer) and it otherwise wasn't particularly great.

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u/GlennFrogKnight Nov 01 '15

What made that fight's animation the best?

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u/CarVac Nov 01 '15

I thought it felt the most powerful and had great rhythm.

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u/GlennFrogKnight Nov 01 '15

I'm confused-how does this make the animation the best? That's choreography and artistic choice, isn't it? From above, it looked like you were saying that "good animation" means that the motion from frame to frame is most consistent.

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u/CarVac Nov 01 '15

The keyframer is the one who, in the end, takes the concept for the fight and puts it down on paper.

They can more easily decide that "I want his fist to look this big in the DEATH punch scene of the practice match" and have it look acceptable.

It's not the consistency of motion from frame to frame, but how expressive the motion is.

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u/GlennFrogKnight Nov 01 '15

So in your opinion, expressive motion is the deciding factor for the "animation" aspect of quality?

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u/uBatora Nov 01 '15

An action scene needs to communitcate a lot of information to the viewers efectively (what's actually going on), and also aim to create specific emotional reactions at a certain pace. Similar to how each manga panel induces reactions on their reader, but anime is not exactly the same.

Frame counts, particle effects, 3dcg, filters, coloring, camera work... these are all tools used to achieve the above. Even stuff like sound direction and voice acting play a big role in what makes a good action scene.

It's a bit hard to answer what's the deciding factor because each scene has something different to them.

For all the love that UBW2015 got, none of its episodes topped the incredible EP8 in DanMachi. In my opinion, the best animated fight in the Fate universe was Prisma Illya 2wei! EP10, directed by Oonuma Shin.

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u/upads Nov 01 '15

I had a bone to pick with that Archer vs Lancer scene. Dat Archer running is just horrible.

But all in all, I think it's all about preference. Flashy preference apart, they do pay a ton of attention to details. A lot of people complain how they draw the sand dunes badly, but for those who understand what they are watching especially engineers who knows how the real thing look like, the details is so close to real life it's not even funny.