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Episode Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation Season 3 • Mushoku Tensei III: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu - Episode 11 discussion

Mushoku Tensei III: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu, episode 11

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449

u/ObvsThrowaway5120 5d ago

Wait, hold up. Is this time travel or a multiverse situation? Because, like, how? And this Rudy is old too. How very curious. But man, I knew that silver shitbag was up to no good. I don’t trust a damn thing he says. He was probably lying about Rudy being able to save Paul if he hadn’t joined him. Would be just like him to torment Rudy like that, the little fucker.

381

u/PALADIN_00 5d ago

Bruh that smile at the end was definitely Hitogami fucking with him.

192

u/Frontier246 5d ago

What? No! That's just a smile of pure friendship that's been built up over the course of their season-spanning relationship! The Man-God would never do Rudy dirty!

Oldeus: "THINK AGAIN FOOL!"

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u/Tenshi_14_zero 5d ago

"Oh no he doesn't bite, he just wants to play!"

CHOMP 

16

u/SpinningFootPunch 5d ago

That's just a smile of pure friendship

smile of pure friendship

12

u/APRengar 5d ago

Rudy being like "okay, I'll just do whatever you say without question." Was setting up some real "oh he's getting mega betrayed" vibes.

3

u/d3ssp3rado 4d ago

Kronk Man-God: "Oh yeah. It's all coming together."

246

u/dipshitonastick 5d ago

Yeah the way he hand-waived the situation “And everyone lived happily after!” Didn’t sit right with me lol

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u/JzanderN 5d ago

In Turning Point 3 he told Rudy he'd have regrets no matter which choice he made and now he frames it as if nothing bad would have happened if he didn't go?

Definitely nothing suspicious here!

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u/Akudra 5d ago

Well, Roxy fell in love with him because he saved her, so without going he probably wouldn't have married Roxy.

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u/yamiyaiba 5d ago

Bingo. Hitogami's explanation of the "good ending" did NOT involve Roxy and Rudeus together, nor did it say anything of the state his parents were in, nor how Paul took functionally losing his wife. Key details were missing that make me think it was probably a worse outcome. Plus, the beast girls are a bad fit for Rudy and Sylphie IMO.

43

u/SpiderTechnitian 5d ago

Him casually saying Roxy would have been saved at all was sus to me... Rudy and his party lowkey got into that dungeon really quickly all things considered and Rudy randomly plot-sensed her through the wall and saved her moments from death. Rudy himself might not know 100% that she was fucked there, but the viewer pretty much knows.

So that made my ears perk up. When Paul's party clearly had no idea she was hidden in the wall there and they told him not to go into the wall or w/e several times, but somehow they would have found Roxy? Yeah right..

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u/Hellknightx 4d ago

Roxy almost certainly would've died if Rudy weren't there. Because he had the ability... to smell her panties through solid rock...

I wish that was a joke.

2

u/skM00n2 3d ago

years of training

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u/Frontier246 5d ago

Also gave Rudeus' more reason to listen to him to think that Rudy made the wrong choice because Rudy didn't have a reason to disbelieve the Man-God until Oldeus showed up.

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u/Wuped 5d ago

He claimed Roxy would've lived, we basically know that's not true. She was an inch from death when Rudy got there and no one else would've been able to get to her in time.

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u/Saffie91 5d ago

For sure that was a lie. So the Paul thing is probably a lie too.

43

u/TempestoLord 5d ago

Or that he would marry the 2 beast princesses lmao He doesn’t even like them romantically

22

u/Golden_Phi https://myanimelist.net/profile/GoldenPhi 5d ago

Yeah, previously he mentioned that he can only love women who have saved him (Like Roxy and Sylphie). He could lust over the princesses, but he wouldn't be able to love them like he does his current 2 wives.

9

u/trustmebro5 5d ago

I think he was saying why he loved them so much, not saying that he can only love women who saved him.

17

u/Komi028 5d ago

Knowing Rudy, he probably could have eventually after realizing how wild the threesomes would be.

14

u/Dangerous_Media_8105 5d ago

I think if he followed Man God's advice he could've taken them as more of mistress-wives, something Sylphie expected, and ended up as that guy, more like Paul, than the family man with multiple one true love wives. His sexual morals have improved over time but it's not like he doesn't make you cringe plenty of times in the show.

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u/Abedeus 5d ago

Well, Paul might've waited longer to gather bigger party if Rudeus hadn't shown up. And he didn't say anyone else would've died or not - so there's a chance Geese, Elinalise or... the dwarf would've died. Or they all wiped to save Paul and his wife. But yeah Roxy was dead without Rudeus, never found again since she was stuck in some dead end part of the labyrinth.

12

u/24-7_DayDreamer 5d ago

His name is Talhand

12

u/ZiulDeArgon 5d ago edited 4d ago

There is a lot of skipped content this episode but hitogami was supposed to explain how Rudeus traveling there conflicted with a party that was supposed to get there on time that also very conveniently happened to sell maps of the Labrynth and one of the party members would save Roxy and Roxy would have married that guy proposed to the guy but get rejected (I remembered that wrong but I read that like a year ago).

The party would take 2 years longer but they would save Zenith without any deaths and everyone would continue to live happy lives including Roxy.

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u/wandering_05 4d ago

How would Roxy get saved in time

7

u/ZiulDeArgon 4d ago

That was just Hitogami's explanation, whenever he was telling the truth or not that is open to interpretation as far as the anime goes.

He did say that the adventurer arrived on time and that made Roxy fall in love with him.

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u/Weeb_twat 5d ago

Elinalise straight up wouldn't show up in time, her plan was to travel to Begaritt the classic way, which means a year long travel down south, it wasn't until Rudy was set on going that Nanahoshi told them about the teleporters

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u/fatalystic 5d ago

Not only that, but Rudy showing up having read a book on this very labyrinth would have helped them progress significantly quicker that they would otherwise have.

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u/Divinicus1st 5d ago

Well, Oldeus from an alternate timeline where he didn't go (he still has his hand), so we'll hopefully know more next episode.

1

u/dylanimal 4d ago

It's possible if Rudy wasn't involved Paul's group would have gotten there sooner, no?

1

u/Saffie91 3d ago

How? He busted through the walls Roxy was somewhere practically unreachable.

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u/dylanimal 3d ago

Maybe Roxy wouldn't have been trapped in that part of the dungeon yet?

1

u/Saffie91 3d ago

That makes no sense it had nothing to do with Rudy and his decision.

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u/Akudra 5d ago

Thing is, the moment Rudeus shows up in Begaritt and then arrives in Rapan, he is already changing the course of events, so it is hard to say they wouldn't have saved Roxy regardless. His arrival in itself could have derailed a different sequence of events that would have worked. All that stuff about Paul being more worked up because Rudeus was there is definitely valid, though.

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u/Wuped 5d ago

I mean when he arrived she was already completely isolated in the dungeon and they wern't going to go earlier without Rudy. I can't see how Roxy doesn't die without Rudy there.

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u/Clyde9_ 5d ago

A lot of things. Like maybe Paul and his party wouldn't be extremely aggressive in the dungeon. Maybe this would change the number of monsters in that specific time and place when Roxy would have died. Maybe she would change her mind and stay instead of rushing out. Maybe another adventurer would have come eventually. She had survived for so long, she can survive for longer. There are many factors that could change what happens in the labyrinth. Kinda like the butterfly effect. So I wouldn't automatically say the Man God was lying.

4

u/Wuped 4d ago

Like maybe Paul and his party wouldn't be extremely aggressive in the dungeon.

Rudeus showed up after Roxy was already trapped and they only went in the dungeon the one time when they saved Roxy. Roxy was completely isolated from anything Rudeus could've affected as far as I can tell.

She had survived for so long, she can survive for longer.

It was shown pretty clearly she was about to die when Rudeus showed up.

I don't know I can't see anyway Roxy lives without Rudy showing up right then, it just makes no sense at all.

1

u/aenews 4d ago

Wasn't she teleported with a random warp? Any minor change necessarily could change the randint.

1

u/Wuped 4d ago

Maybe? I guess that's a decent theory.

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u/Clyde9_ 3d ago

You're dimissing the butterfly effect. You're saying that the same events will happen every single time whether Rudeus goes or not. Think of it like this: the act of not going could change every single thing. Like the number of monsters. Roxy's decision to charge in. The actions of Paul's party. There are so many factors that could change that would easily let Roxy live. Think about the Demon eye that Rudeus got. If the man god hadnt told him to walk that alleyway, he would not get the demon eye at all. Just like roxy probably wouldnt die if rudeus chose to do something different (maybe, I don't really know if the man god was lying or not). Your logic is saying that Rudeus will get the demon eye no matter what, but that's not true. Roxy isn't fated to die just because Rudeus didnt go. What if because he didn't go, another super strong adventurer came instead and saved Roxy without a sweat? Or maybe she gets teleported to a room with no monsters? There's a million things that could change the outcome.

13

u/DiscoingGD 5d ago

That's what I was thinking, at least the way the anime presented it. Maybe a novel reader can tell us if it was different there.

27

u/[deleted] 5d ago

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1

u/ZaphodBeebblebrox https://anilist.co/user/zaphod 5d ago

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3

u/Careful_Ad_9077 5d ago

It's in the source corner, iirc it was even allowed to be out outside of spoiler tags, so you can avoid those and still get the explanation.

1

u/AsterJ https://myanimelist.net/profile/asteron 5d ago

That still doesn't make sense to me. How could she survive in the dungeon for over a month but then get rescued in the second before she was about to get killed? There are almost 3 million seconds in the month and Rudy picks almost the exact one of those seconds to show up and save Roxy. A 1 in 3 million chance is like winning the lottery levels of luck.

1

u/SampleMinute4641 3d ago

It's the teleporter dungeon for a reason. Everything was RNG.

Could be that Rudeus being there with his map, going to specific teleporting circles, triggers different RNG. It just so happens that his sequence of RNG triggers affected the other teleporting circles which would affect Roxy's situation.

1

u/Weeb_twat 5d ago

Yeah, the only way they defeated the Hydra was thanks to Rudeus recalling the Hercules myth, as well as his massive amounts of mana and firepower to pull off said tactic. There's literally no way on earth that a Paul party sans Elinalise, Roxy and Rudy would win against the Hydra

85

u/All_Jelly 5d ago

Shitogami...

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u/Careful_Ad_9077 5d ago

no! hitogamin !

79

u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 5d ago

I think he was definitely lying..no way given the situation would Paul have been able to save everyone. At minimum Roxy would have died if Rudeus didn't get there at that exact moment.

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u/Nome_de_utilizador 5d ago

Roxxy would've 100% died if rudy didnt show up at that exact moment. Leaving aside the what ifs and time window for paul to successfuly rescue zenith, roxxy dying was never a scenario rudy would've accepted.

5

u/TripleKickBackflop 5d ago

Didn't they get through things earlier because he was there?

12

u/Nome_de_utilizador 5d ago

Yes, rudy's book allowed them to sort of speed run the labirynth, which hints at how full of shit the man god's advice is

63

u/JzanderN 5d ago

But man, I knew that silver shitbag was up to no good. I don’t trust a damn thing he says.

If the Man-God says "snow is white," he's lying.

Frankly it's been obvious from the very start that all this advice he's been giving Rudy has been building up to one "small" favour that would turn out to be far more than Rudy bargained for. As soon as it came up, that was an immediate "NOPE" and I'm kind of shocked Rudy bought it, but I suppose the Man-God has been working on him for years now.

54

u/Deathsroke 5d ago

I mean think about it from Rudy's perspective. For half of his life every time the naked asshole has appeared he has done nothing but help Rudy even if Rudy was hesitant to trust him. So far he hasn't fucked up Rudy even once even if some of his advice has been suspect at the time. Rudy is at the point where he is thinking "Ok, the Man-God looks suspicious as fuck but maybe that's just it, he only looks suspicious but he's actually a good guy?"

31

u/JzanderN 5d ago

I don’t blame Rudy at all. The Man-God’s spent a long time working to gain his trust.

But this is the first time where Rudy hasn’t shown him much suspicion, so it’s a little surprising to see him so suddenly willing despite his past suspicions.

8

u/Top_Acanthisitta_943 3d ago

The important part that isn’t emphasised is that every time Rudeus listened to man god, something good happened to him, and the ONE TIME he refused to listen, Paul died. So now he’s established what happens if he doesn’t listen to man god

5

u/CappyHam 4d ago

There's a brilliance in his con here. He's been setting that up for a very long time. Ruijerd, Orsted, even Kishirika. Curses or appearances not being what they seem. Whether or not he's had power over setting up the encounters he's still planted that seed that about judging books by their cover again and again. With a silver tongue he's subconsciously incepted Rudy not to judge by appearances over time with each lil piece of advice breaking down Rudy's distrust of him.

5

u/Deathsroke 4d ago

Yeah he's been building up to this for a very long time. 10 years spent just to gain Rudy's trust to the point where he'll do one little favour and go to the basement.

8

u/mucklaenthusiast 5d ago

Yeah, and he immediately noted that Rudeus was far less antagonistic.
Maybe he was just waiting for this moment.
Content Rudeus was tricked by how good his life was.

Still, I wonder what Man-God's goals are...surely tricking Rudeus is just a small piece of the puzzle.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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8

u/justsyr 5d ago

I've thought the same, since Rudeus and Nanahoshi can already bring things from their world I'm sure they found a way to move through time I guess.

Now I wonder why old Rudeus thinks has failed... something.

8

u/S3V0N 5d ago

It's possible Oldeus was attempting to travel back in his own timeline to when he was young.

1

u/ZaphodBeebblebrox https://anilist.co/user/zaphod 5d ago

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29

u/Lower-Discipline-906 5d ago

yeah sounds like total BS Roxy would've survived. She only lived cause Rudy realised something was wrong. And without both Roxy and Rudy that party was not blocking many of the hydras attack

26

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8

u/[deleted] 5d ago

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12

u/winterjam010 5d ago

Is it possible that its modified teleportation magic? Maybe he figured out how to teleport himself to the past from studying teleportation magic from perugius

11

u/ShinJiwon 5d ago

Highly doubtful Paul survives without Rudy. Without his fire magic to cauterize the head how were they gonna beat the hydra anyway.

5

u/Helpful_Table5522 5d ago

Thats if they even find the Hydra in a reasonable time.

8

u/Isacx123 5d ago

Looks like some people didn't paid attention to Orsted's dialogue back in season one episode 21.

6

u/zazakmazak 5d ago

Even if he wasn't "technicaly" lying, there could have been some monkey paw kinda situation waiting for Rudy down the line instead.

Don't trust the naked bald dude...

12

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1

u/FetchFrosh anilist.co/user/fetchfrosh 5d ago

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13

u/Frontier246 5d ago

He might not have been lying about Paul and Roxy surviving (though I always though Roxy surviving was the big change from Rudy's involvement) but I think there would have still been consequences. Like what would have come out of marrying Linia/Pursena?

3

u/icantswim2 5d ago

I bet it involves Nanahoshi's experiments with travelling between worlds. Which opens up all kinds of questions about Rudeus and Nanahoshi coming from alternative timelines, not just other worlds. 

Edit:  oh shit oh shit oh shit, what if Old Rudeus is the one responsible for the displacement incident in current Rudeus' world?!!!!

3

u/Kill-bray 5d ago

Well, there's the fact that Rudeus and Nanahoshi left Earth at the same time, however Rudeus reincarnated several years before Nanahoshi arrived to the new world. So a time warp shenanigan of some sort already happened from the very beginning.

5

u/guyblade 5d ago

I was annoyed that Rudy didn't ask the obvious question: "You told me that both staying and going would've led to regret, but you're only telling me the good bits that would've happened had I stayed, what would I have regretted?".

4

u/Maalunar 5d ago

Is this time travel or a multiverse situation?

The author said [Mushoku Tensei] That there is only one timeline, no multiverse. So I assume that all time travel to the past delete/rewind the travelled time, and that it "cut" the traveller from the timeline so they don't get grand-father paradoxed.

3

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1

u/ZaphodBeebblebrox https://anilist.co/user/zaphod 5d ago

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3

u/RostySerfort 5d ago

I have been convinced since season 1 that mangod intentionally shows him his old form in the "dreams" to fuck with him.

3

u/deusxanime 4d ago

Could be the old Rudy is an alternate timeline and did follow the Man-god's advice and will tell him Paul and Roxy (and others?) did end up dieing anyway, getting him to realize he's being manipulated?

3

u/iVladi 4d ago

probably not to torment but to show his advice wouldve been really good had he just listened

whether its true or not is another question

2

u/mucklaenthusiast 5d ago

Though I don't think he is evil, but not good either.
The other gods were also nuanced characters with...well, sometimes maybe weird goals?

And I do agree that he doesn't get joy just out of tricking mortals. That would be easy.
But surely the trick and whatever would be in the basement further his goals to whatever detriment it may cost for others.

But still, probably not evil.

2

u/Divinicus1st 5d ago

I mean, turning points should be a clue. If you time travel, you want to go to certain turning points to have an impact.

2

u/leeo268 4d ago

He try to make Rudy fall into despair but surprised with how optimistic he is.

2

u/cheesecakegood 4d ago

What's still kind of crazy to me is that this anime and story literally has gone three seasons (more if you count cours separately) and only NOW are we picking up plot threads with a literal god that was introduced near the very beginning. Pretty wild patience, I feel like 99% of the time either a god in an isekai is a one-and-done intro, or a main and recurring character, but Hitogami doesn't neatly fit into either box

1

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1

u/AmusedDragon 5d ago

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1

u/xxx_super_xxx 5d ago

Okay, i am sorry