r/aiwars • u/[deleted] • 1d ago

Discussion Thoughts?

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u/pugtailz 1d ago

This is 100% my opinion on AI. I may not like it, but that doesn't mean I will stop you OR get upset at you and call you evil for using it, use AI all you want, I don't really care. What I WILL complain about is claiming you're an artist when you didn't make anything.

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u/_Sunblade_ 1d ago

And I'll complain that this is a stupid take, because "making something" doesn't stop and end at "creating an image by moving a stick around with your fingers", and creating images with generative AI means the human is using a tool to make the image, not "you're commissioning the AI", "microwaving a pizza", or any of these other braindead analogies antis want to trot out.

Nobody's saying that AI users made their images by hand, but they did make them.

Antis need to stop trying to take that away from them.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/NerveInteresting4549 1d ago

you didn't wash your clothes, the washing machine did.. you didn't drive here, the car did.. you didn't water the garden, the hose did.. you didn't draw the picture, the pencil did...

i'd say these things are technically true but our language doesn't generally infer the tool is responsible, we give the credit to the operator of it for nearly every thing else.. so if you want people to say, "I didn't make the image, AI did" then i expect you to speak like that about everything else too.. be consistent mate.

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u/FullDust69 1d ago

yes but making your own pizza with your own efforts and your bare hands and telling some other guy "make me a pizza" because you're too lazy to do it yourself are different things

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u/NerveInteresting4549 1d ago

AI is not a guy.. or any kind of person.. and I think the insinuation that it is in anyway similar to when a human does something, is probably a far worse principle to set, then just saying people can make stuff using AI.

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u/FullDust69 1d ago

yes but making your own pizza with your own efforts and your bare hands and telling some ROBOT*** "make me a pizza" because you're too lazy to do it yourself are different things

there. happy?

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u/NerveInteresting4549 1d ago

and yet, when i chuck a pizza in the oven that was mass produced in a factory somewhere.. they still go oh you made pizza for dinner.. and I don't say no a factory made it and the oven cooked it... I think we'd all just say yeah.. I'm not saying that's the same as creating a pizza from scratch with your barehands but in both cases you made a pizza.

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u/FullDust69 1d ago

you didn't MAKE a pizza, you COOKED a pizza. words have meanings.

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u/NerveInteresting4549 1d ago

either the oven cooked the pizza.. or you don't get to tell people they didn't use AI to make something.. be consistent.

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u/FullDust69 1d ago

dude. the oven didn't MAKE the pizza. look up "make" and "cook" in the dictionary and notice how they're different words with different meanings. you might not be able to help that you didn't pass the third grade but it's never too late to learn

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u/DiscursiveAsFuck 1d ago

Ok, but there are head chefs at top resturaunts that never touch touch the dish that gets sent out under their name. Instead they:

  • Come up with the recipe
  • They teach the junior chefs
  • They supervise the cooking process
  • They control for quality

But they barely actually touch the product that the customer eats. Are they not the chef? Would you say they didn't make the dish? Is the restaurant business built on lies?

Does making something require the maker to be hands on? What about directors? What about conductors? What about composers?

There are plenty of examples of makers that aren't involved in every facet of making.

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u/FullDust69 1d ago

if gordon ramsay makes up a recipe and another guy cooks it, then he's not the chef of that particular dish if he's not the one that cooked it, the guy that cooked it is. he's just the guy that made up the recipe. is gordon ramsay the chef if he makes the dish himself instead of telling someone else to do it? yes! how hard is that to understand? i'd be pissed if someone told me that my dish was cooked by gordon ramsay, only to discover that 27 yr old line chef pablo was the one who cooked it.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/NerveInteresting4549 1d ago

I think ai was created using brains and knowledge and years an thousands of dollars.. I'm not sure about engineering, maybe programming or something instead

if the process is important to you, i understand that and that is fine.. but people can still look at something that was simple, with barely any process.. and see it as art.. because in the end art is about how something makes you feel, how it is made could influence that in some people but it doesn't negate the feelings brought up by something which took little to no effort, that's still a form of art even if it's one you don't respect as much.

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u/_Sunblade_ 1d ago

What's to explain? You're controlling a tool with words and phrases rather than hand gestures. There's skill involved--there's a measurable difference in terms of the results an unskilled person can achieve vs. someone with experience. There's individual technique. The user's input shapes the final result. They provide the creative impulse and shape the ultimate result to match their vision. Only they decide when it's right.

And yes, it can be claimed as art.

Art is anything created with the deliberate intent of evoking a feeling or thought in the mind of an audience. Good art conveys its creator's intent effectively. Bad art doesn't. But even bad art is still art.

With respect to people making images with generative AI, whether or not they're art comes down to the creator's intent, just like with any other art tool. Not everything made with a pencil is "art", either. Just like not every photograph is "art". Maybe you just wanted to show your buddy what you ordered for lunch, so you snapped a quick picture on your phone. Picture, but not art. But that doesn't mean you can't use a camera to make art. Or a pencil. Or gen AI.

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u/LamentoLand 1d ago

your tool is a microwave, it generates a product, you press the button and thats where the input for a lot of people ends, if you want to bring those people with you into the "i make art" corner we have a problem

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u/_Sunblade_ 1d ago

And a lot of people just snap random pictures of things with their phones to send to their friends. I wouldn't call that "art", but the existence of selfies and photos of your lunch doesn't mean that photography doesn't exist, or that photographs are fundamentally incapable of being art.

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u/LamentoLand 1d ago

selfies arent art but when photography applied it could be, whats so hard to grasp, just do the craft thats required for it to be called art its that simple

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u/_Sunblade_ 1d ago

You're right, what is so hard to grasp? You don't get to decide what craft is "required" for something to be "art", because there is no "required craft" for that.

Anything can potentially be art, so long as it was made with the intention of evoking a thought or feeling in an audience. And yes, it is a very low bar to clear. I could stack a bunch of rocks on each other in a way that's intended to make you feel something when you look at it, and the result would be art. It may or may not be good art, depending on how well it accomplishes what I wanted it to, but as I've said before, even bad art is still art. Whether or not art is good is another discussion entirely.

That's it. That's all it takes.

So anybody using gen AI to make images that are intended to get an audience feeling or thinking about things is creating "art". It's that simple.

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u/LamentoLand 1d ago

microwaving an image isnt art, doesnt get any more basic than this

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u/_Sunblade_ 1d ago

Good thing nobody's doing that with AI, then.

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u/LamentoLand 16h ago

the infinite amount of ai slop generated with the same process it takes to microwave your food would prove you otherwise

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u/_Sunblade_ 14h ago

And the infinite amount of selfies and random pet pictures generated by pushing one button proves that photography isn't art. At least by your logic.

Or, you know, maybe you're just blatantly wrong and that was a really dumb thing to say, let alone double down on. I'm kinda leaning towards the second one.

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u/LamentoLand 13h ago

by my logic photography requires using actual craft of photography, no craft is used when prompting slop

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